I hope our Canadian correspondant is peering in over the border, this afternoon. Perhaps, he will have primary-source commentary to offer.
The dislike of Canada’s biggest city, Toronto, in the rest of the country runs so deep that a filmmaker has made a documentary about it.
“People in Toronto are soulless, one-eyed corporate zombies,” Joey Keithley, of the Vancouver punk band D.O.A., says in the film, “Let’s All Hate Toronto.”
The 73-minute film, which premieres at Toronto’s Hot Docs documentary festival next week, follows a character called Mister Toronto, who embarks on a cross-Canada trip brandishing a sign that reads “Toronto Appreciation Day” and steels himself for the onslaught.
Co-director Albert Nerenberg said in an interview, “People have a grudging respect for New York outside of the city, and have a grudging respect for London. But people outside of Toronto don’t have that for Toronto, they really don’t.”
Since my Canadian kin live far enough away from big cities that my visits have always been pastoral – I’ll withhold an opinion.
Well, it’s been a few decades since I was there, but I was very impressed with how nice the people were.
Toronto is a beautiful city. Anyone who doesn’t like Toronto should stockpile canned goods and live a reclusive life under a bridge.
I live about an hour outside Toronto (on a clear day can see the CN Tower straight across Lake Ontario), and most southern Ontario residents around the Toronto area are more or less used to/ accepting of Torontonians. Honestly, having been to New York and London, I don’t really see the ‘city folk’ of Toronto as any different from the people living in those other cities. I mean, sure you get your typicaly big-city elitist jerks, but that’s the exception, not the rule. Honestly I think it’s just sour grapes from the rest of the country… hating Toronto is the ‘fashionable’ thing to do. And I think that’s pretty unfair.
How can you dislike people who live in igloos?
#2
Toronto is easily the ugliest city in Canada (with a population >500,000)
It’s funny… I often ask the same question throughout Canada about Calgary and get similar results. No one like Calgary…
And as to respect about New York? Umm… I guess the writer didn’t travel much or research that statement. There is always East vs. West. Central vs. Everyone. Have vs Have Not’s…
Generally speaking, Toronto is a very diverse population that get’s very little respect from the rest of the country… but most cities are like that.
People in Southern Ontario all love TO. Everyone else is tired of how the world revolves around the place. I used to live in the Windsor area, I now live in Victoria. I’m fully into the hate Toronto thing.
@#2
“Toronto is a beautiful city. Anyone who doesn’t like Toronto should stockpile canned goods and live a reclusive life under a bridge.”
Spoken like someone who has never lived in Vancouver:)
from personal experiences Torontoites tend to be very snobby when compared with people from other cities (even snobbier than trendy Vancouver yuppies), they also tend to see themselves as superior to everyone else, and belive that Toronto is the centre of the universe. There are of course exceptions.
People move to Toronto for because they need to for business, not because they want to.
#4 : How can you dislike people who live in igloos?
Spoken like a true american …hehe… that’s ok. 😉
I’m no bigot. I’ll hate every city and everyone in them
Being a Vancouverite I recently visited Montreal and Toronto. I loved Montreal and was sad to leave. After a couple of days in Toronto, I just wanted to get out. What a crap hole!!!!!! Their arrogance was unbelievable and the people rude.
Toronto has the advantage of being the largest city in Canada and also the financial hub so most people (from my experience) move there or just visit, do so for work reasons. My boss hates Toronto so much, that he does not even leave the hotel.
Also……The Leafs suck!
Andy
Joey is from Vancouver, where we were born and raised making fun of Toronto. He is just having fun. My mother always told me that if you went over the rockies, you fell off the edge.
Edmonton – that place is fugly as hell – bitter cold too
igloos. But great strip joints!
Ahem…
I’m going to go through this one comment at a time…
1. Yes. Sometimes. But it’s change hella-lot since then.
2. No. It’s fricking ugly! The only “Old Toronto” is Fort York. Which is a wall where they hold a beer festival. A beer festival that ONLY serves Molson or Labatt’s. GAK!
3. You’re partly right. One of the problems is that Toronto is the Centre of the Universe, and as such we get lots of flak for being so important, nay, vital to the rest of humanity. The farther away you are but can still see it, it looks great. Inside town, it’s pretty craptacular. Almost all the nice historic buildings have been toppled for new taller boxes. Bah!
4. Just see if they invite you IN to the igloo!
5. You’re probably right!
6. You’re probably right too!
7. For the Southern Ontarians, you have a choice between London, Windsor, Hamilton and Toronto. Even I’d pick Toronto.
8. We’re snobs because we’re all high-paid executive CEO’s. Well, actually, most of use work in menial jobs for the banks but hey, we don’t let reality get in the way. If you are in Downtown Core, yeah, everyone is a snob. It’s pretty depressing.
11. Vancouver is amazing. But the people there are as snobby or more so than in Toronto. I know you don’t believe it, but that’s cause you’re from Vancouver. Plus, everyone in Vancouver is either a) a drifter, b) granola, c) a pig farming prostitute killer, d) chinese, e) indian f) moved from Toronto. Only D and E are acceptable! And your boss doesn’t leave the hotel because Vancouverites don’t work! I support people in Vancouver. All I ever hear from them is how stoned they are from their wake and bake. (that’s for the Leafs comment!)
13. Edmonton and Calgary don’t even rates as Cities as far as I’m concerned….
14. Damn straight!!!
Now… Let me give a little bit of my own story…
Born and bred in Toronto. Lived and still live in the downtown core (REAL downtown, just minutes from the Eaton’s Centre) for over ten years. I LOVE my city. I know where everything is. I know where the cool people are and how to avoid them. All the food you want and all the KINDS of food you want. Great people once they get to know you. We like foreigners very much. More so than locals! Diversity everywhere in people and shops. Maple Leafs Hockey – there is no substitute to seeing the most financially successful hockey club EVAR pretend to content for the Stanley Cup year after year after year… It’s a painful pleasure to be a fan. VERY affordable. Transportation is great if you can stay off the buses and use the subway and street-car instead. Tons of great places to live… it’s not called the City of Neighbourhoods for nothing. Take a trip up the CN Tower at night, and you’ll understand. Just acres of neighbourhoods right downtown… Fantastic. Very liberal employers. Pay not so good though… They have to be liberal with only certain things of course. Great weed available everywhere! Smoking Pot hardly rates on any cop scope. I’ve been smoking dope with my friends in line while waiting for a concert to start… The cops were kind enough to ask us to just move closer to the fence so we don’t block the sidewalk. I almost passed him my reefer! Most of our pot comes from Quebec, BTW.
Now, the things I hate… The people! Geez, so many frickin snobs! I don’t get it. You can’t even say hi to strangers on the street! In certain parts of town, its just AnyCity North American… Same kinds of shops, food courts, sights… NO historic buildings… Well, there are some, but they are usually small and tucked away… You’d walk right by them. The Leafs. God they suck!
Wow! What a rant! I love my City. But you really have to live in it to appreciate it. There is nothing that you can really enjoy in Toronto that you can’t enjoy anywhere else on a short term. It’s a long term commitment and I’m happy to keep it up!
And for the rest of my Cannuckistanians… Toronto Rocks and you love it!
And the Leafs suck to.
Toronto the Good is my birthplace and home town. I am a proud Torontonian and even prouder Canadian.
Yes, we are the hub of the country in many ways: financially, multi-culturally and size of population.
No, we do not live in igloos, mr. ignorant. We are a modern city with a vast cultural diversity only rivaled by New York City.
Yes, there is some negative feeling throughout Canada towards Toronto, but it is more like resenting a successful family member than being an enemy.
No, I will not be seeing this film!
C’mon – its a fixture of Canadian televison (what of it there is) and culture that Toronto isn’t quite Canadian (too urban, eh). Its like not liking the French (which is another thing deeply rooted in Canadian history)
I lived in 3 different neighbourhoods over a 20 year span. It’s alright to live there if you haven’t experienced a smaller less congested and slower city, or if you don’t live near the rendering plant just east of downtown (phew). I sold my house there and bought one 3 times as big with 4 times the land just 100 km away, for the same price. I now back on to a corn field instead of a commercial zone, and I wake up to cardinals and purple finches instead of streetcars. Y’all can keep the big stinkers.
I’ve lived in each of Calgary, Vancouver and Toronto for at least ten years.
* Calgary is an unending subdivision that will turn into hell within 50 yrs, unless there’s some way to “in-build”.
* Vancouver is like beautiful blond with at-times questionable ideas. Vancouver is a rebellious teen with an identity crisis. It needs to define itself as something other than “not dad”.
* “Hatred” of Toronto makes no sense to me. Toronto is the “adult” among the Canadian cities. Without it the country would be lost.
17. nice igloos. better strip joints.
Ok, so for the non-canadians: there are a number of rivalries all over the country. The typical ones (east vs west, provincial rivalries, city rivalries and language rivalries) and the mundane and assinine (hockey/football/lacrosse teams, public transit rivalries).
Now, Vancouver is a beautiful city, as is Montreal and Ottawa. These three cities are involved in rivalries but more on the sidelines. The deepest rivalry between cities (nationally anyway) is between Toronto and Calgary. The best comparison would probably be Toronto is like a cross New York and Washington DC where Calgary is like Houston or Dallas. Torontonians think Calgarians are just a bunch of try hards and rednecks; Calgarians thinks Torontonians are arrogant and ignorant to the rest of the country. Both places have some basis for there arguments. Calgary does have your stereotypical ‘rednecks’ (think Cletus off of Simpsons) but then you can find people like that anywhere. Toronto has people who think that they are the favourite child, but again you can find people like that anywhere.
Calgary however has become the hub of western Canada for a number of businesses, mostly oil companies. Many of these companies came from Toronto. Calgary has a large proportion of entrepreneurs, while Toronto has a large proportion of corporate minded people. Also, Toronto is the capital of Ontario, but not of Canada (contrary to popular belief), where as Calgary is not a political centre at all, giving it more of a distaste for political intrusion/interference.
#2, that’s just a weird comment
I’d bet that the film is a satire, not a call to arms. This kinda reads like a fluff piece on American news – “and in other news – war breaks out in Toronto, Canadia”
#19 – Sounds ghastly….
I tend to believe in the “to each thier own” philosophy. I don’t know why people with functional ears listen to country music. I don’t know why men with eyes look at Paris Hilton. I can’t understand why people with taste buds eat fast food. I can’t fathom most of things most people do day to day.
And I can’t understand why anyone would not want to live inside the comforting cradle of a major metropolitan city. But if folks wanna live where you can’t order a sit down meal after 9… where you don’t have live music choices from major artists 7 nights a week… where you have no cultural institutions like museums, symphonies, or theater… where you have to drive two hours to shop for anything… where you have to drive at all… is a mystery to me.
But whatever… Someone wants to live in the sticks, be my guest. I don’t fault them for it. It’s what they like…
But it get tiresome hearing about how bad living in a city is. Cities, especially New York, Chicago, and cities on that level, are brimming with life. They are vibrant and eclectic, rich in diverse cultural heritages and histories, packed with a million opportunities for business and fun, and loaded with interesting people and remarkable potential.
For me, the only thing I ever did in the country was sit and get tired from boredom. And occassionally bristle when I overheard the off key scratchings of country music.
I saw an american bald eagle swoop from the sky 2 weeks ago, claws extended and grap a duck that was (until then) fishing for dinner on the Animas River in Colorado. It flew into a nearby tree and proceeded to feed. That, OFTLO is entertainment for me. We live at 7000 feet with a view of the Rocky Mountains , snow covered at the moment that will take your breath. I understand your need for culture, I just dont need it in the large doses that you do. When I was younger, it was importatnt for me to be in the bars every weekend night. I too love live music, its one of my biggest passions. Things changed a little for me as I got older and clubbing got old. And maybe, so did I, but it just doesnt have the appeal it use to. To say there is nothing to do in tthe sticks is just a matter of perspective. There is SO much to do its overwhelming.
#22,
Thanks for explaining to a US citizen the comparison, it really did help me understand better.
I enjoy Toronto. It is one of my favorite cities. Vancouver is nice, if you are part duck. I think it rained every day I was there. Old town in Montreal is nice, but the rest of the city is not nearly as charming. If you want old town, imitation Europe, Quebec City is better.
The only thing I disliked about Toronto was a statue in front of the old city hall about the “glory” of death in war. There is no glory, there is only death.
15 – Mister Justin – thanks for that comment. It really brought me back decades, to when I lived in Brooklyn – neighborhoods, quirky people, an incredible cultural mix, and I gave away my (rather old) car to a local kid because all it did for me was collect tickets. I never, ever used it.
I imagine the Brooklyn I knew back then (early 70s) is about as gone now as the bustling port of San Francisco. And I haven’t lived inside a large city for many years now, and don’t miss it. But I did love Brooklyn and I enjoyed NYC. As OFTLO says, it’s a matter of choice. Loved it then, don’t miss it now. No doubt a short stay in a major hotel in city center is NOT the best way to get to know Toronto, so I guess I’ll forego the experience. Oh well.
I suppose that this thread has scrolled off, … comment #22 has some truth to it, but it ignores the history: long ago, when Calgary was in the third echelon of Canadian cities, smaller than Winnipeg and Edmonton, but larger than London, Ont, the issue was Toronto and not-Toronto. It’s a lot like: there may be a New York – Chicago rivalry. But you still have people who hate New York because it is New York. Hardly any who hate Chicago because it is Chicago. Root for the underdog, unroot the überhund.
That said, you’re likely to find more Canadians who admit to being fans of the Toronto Maple Leafs (sic) than Americans outside NY who are unabashed fans of the New York Yankees.
None of this has anything to do with the objective merits of living in one Canadian city over another. Though I did get a kick out of #24. If he had been a Torontonian implying that all the rest of Canada lacked those wonderful reasons for his choice of residence, he’d be a poster boy for the Toronto-centric attitude that started this whole “rivalry” in the first place.
I just hate Toronto cause the Leafs really suck!!!! Oilers rule!