Given my complete lack of enthusiasm for pretty much everything going on in Washington today or emanating from it, especially the usurpation of our rights and, oh yeah, that war, I wonder if these guys are on to something. Game reset time?
The Once and Future Republic of Vermont
The winds of secession are blowing in the Green Mountain State.
Vermont was once an independent republic, and it can be one again. We think the time to make that happen is now. Over the past 50 years, the U.S. government has grown too big, too corrupt and too aggressive toward the world, toward its own citizens and toward local democratic institutions. It has abandoned the democratic vision of its founders and eroded Americans’ fundamental freedoms.
Vermont did not join the Union to become part of an empire.
Some of us therefore seek permission to leave.
Here’s a website devoted to the concept of secession.
“Whenever government becomes destructive of these ends (life, liberty, pursuit of happiness), it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute a new government.”
Declaration of Independence of the American Colonies, 1776
Ummmm…. I thought the whole debate about whether or not states may secede was settled during the last Civil War? (Answer, of course, being: No, you can’t.)
Joke: USA could solve a lot of its problems by changing its name to a different 3-letter country: C eh? N eh? D eh?
A country named Cascadia comprising BC, Washington, Oregon … has been mooted.
Canada itself has separatists. Close to half the people in Quebec want a separate country, or something similar. There have been separatist movements in Alberta and British Columbia. And Vancouver Island being a separate jurisdiction from BC before 1858 is a fact not completely forgotten.
I can’t help but notice the date of the article is April 1…
I find there to be an interesting parallel between secession and how a public company is worth more if it splits in two.
The civil War didn’t settle any such issue. Certainly, those who opposed succession stated they weren’t going to let anyone leave, and they were successful in using force to get their way. But that doesn’t settle the issue at all.
The constitution is silent on the matter. The 10th amendment reserves to the states (and the people of the states) any right not specifically granted to the federal government. So, the right to leave was not given to the federal government and therefore resides with the state.
That of course doesn’t prevent people from using force again to get their way, despite all this.
The U.S. Supreme Court ruled in the 1869 case Texas v. White that unilateral secession by a U.S. state was unconstitutional and had no force in statutory law.
From the Wik.
If a state did secede, Bush would just invade it, once he’s finished with Iran.
Besides the April 1 date on the article, the timing of this idea is perfect. Everyone knows from U.S. history that if the national government intends to annul the secession, they may have to devote significant military resources to the effort. Well, I’ve read that Union forces happen to be otherwise engaged in another conflict at the moment, and fighting secessionists may be a military battle they don’t necessarily want to take on.
The secession movement could actually have legs, although Vermont residents may find that it affects the status of their tax returns. The Feds will almost certainly fight dirty, and their first-strike commando force will be drawn straight from the ranks of the IRS Audit Division. This could get really ugly, even without the military.
On the other hand, we could simply let Vermont go without so much as an argument. There are people who advocate making Mexico a state, and now would be the perfect time, so as to avoid the expense of making new flags. If we lose a state and gain one simultaneously, our flag will still have 50 glorious stars, and those Vermonters can just go to hell and take their overpriced maple syrup with them.
Taxes, the NEW SLAVERY
I grew up in Vermont, and this is no joke. I remember going to our town meeting in 1991 and voting on secession. (I, being a 19 yr old wise at the time, stood up for it!) — At the time, there was the story floating around the Green Mountains that when Vermont joined the US as the 14th state, the Vermonters had made the Federal Government agree to the condition that if Vermont state legislature and a vote by the people favored Vermont living the union at anytime, the Federal Government would not try to stop them from doing so by an act of force. Thus, if the will is there, Vermont would be able to walk away at anytime, with no blood spilled. Of course, I’ve never found out if this was true, but it was a good story! — Damn, this article made me miss my youthful days in the Green Mountains!
#5
Actually, it is not 2/3 of Congress but 2/3 of the *States*. The States have the power to call a Constitutional Convention and eliminate the Federal government if they wish with no authorization required from current Federal government.
Regardless of whether this is an April Fool’s prank, I agree with the people of Vermont (even through I live in CA). The Federal government has gotten far too powerful. If Vermont were to successfully secede, you can bet a large number of other States would do the same. Furthermore, squelching this revolution would be far more difficult than in 1860’s. For one thing, the seceding States would not all be geographically clumped together. In addition, if CA decided to secede, it is too big to control using military force *and* control other areas that would be in rebellion.
Seccession will never happen in the USA. Every state has its massive cancerous infection of 24-ESPN-Channel-luvin’, Bush-worshippin’ sheeple. And they’re the ones with the most guns, and making the most babies.
Can’t be sure, of course, but Vermont might have gotten the idea here:
http://www.freestateproject.org/
Before you even think about secession, remember the 600,000+ who died the last time that issue came up. Coincidentally, that’s about equal to the current population of Vermont.
The Republic of Texas wishes to enter into diplomatic discussions and negotiations for trade with the Vermont Republic for the mutual benefit of all freedom loving citizens.
If only Sam Houston and Ethan Allen could see the ‘state of the union’ now….
14, thanks for the link !!
When the first suitcase nuke goes off in Washington D.C., that would force the states to become more autonomous. Especially when no state wants a “nations capital” in their back yard. Maybe they could put it on the White Sands test range….
If I remember my history correctly Texas is the only state that can succeed legally from the union and did so in the civil war.
Just a tidbit : We also never lost a battle in the civil war either
and yes I have wondered if Texas might be better off going it alone.
#18. No states seceeded legally from the Union. That matter was settled, as was noted upthread, in Texas v. White.
And as far as not losing a battle … an American general once said something similar to a Vietnamese one and the reply was spot-on:
“That is true. It is also irrelevant.”
18, no, Texas has no secession rights, but here’s a link from Snopes, a rather reliable resource:
http://www.snopes.com/history/american/texas.asp
If we did secede, how high would be the price of oil and gas in just a month or two? Hello Permian basin, East Tex and the Gulf of Mexico !
There is at least one large producing oil well fenced off in the parking lot of the main mall in Odessa, TX. Next time I’m out there, I’ll post a photo.
Does this mean that Jesse “The body” Ventura is going to be the president of Vermont?
#8 If a state did secede, Bush would just invade it, once he’s finished with Iran.
No he wouldn’t. There’s no oil in Vermont.
The group most responsible for seeding secession movements in the United States is the League of the South. It has a ‘Christian’ secession agenda currently called Christian Exodus. People are being urged to move to South Carolina because the League believes that state’a legislature is the most likely to support secessionist legislationists. History buffs will know why. (And know, secession is no more legal for S.C. than is for Texas.)
The League of the South is a ‘Christian’ white supremacist group rooted in the White Citizens Councils who opposed desegration from the 1940s through the 1970s. Its agenda is to have Southern states secede and reestablish their societies as they existed before the Civil War, including with voting rights only for white Chrisitan male landowners. Any takers here?
There is currently a scandal involving the secession movement involving a family from up North, New Hampshire, if I recall correctly, who took the secessionist rhetoric too seriously. They moved to South Carolina and then proceeding to kill law enforcement officers who stepped on their property without their permission. Be careful what you ask for, Uncle Dave.
Wait a minute! I’ve heard podcasters who live there gripe about their crazy state laws.
Maybe it would be a good thing if the 49 of us secede from Vermont?
🙂
#24
But that would mean Puerto Rico will finally become the 50th State.
Hey bubba I know that spot very well. I spent 10yrs in midland back in 1996 ,that is one really hot desolate place and the only place Ive ever seen that a thunderstorm circle you like a wolf before it hits
This idea has been around a while in Vermont as the person said above as far back in the 90’s.
If Vermont ever did this, I’d move there in a heartbeat or maybe trade my house for my brothers who lives there currently.
#20. One bit of esoterica I think the snopes article got wrong. it says
“the 1820 Missouri Compromise (although the provisions of that compromise technically applied only to “all that territory ceded by France to the United States, under the name of Louisiana” and therefore did not encompass Texas).”
Americans at the time maintained that Texas was included in the LA Purchase and was foolishly given away in the 1819 Adams-Onis Treaty with Spain. Thus, one could plausibly claim that, if the US ever ‘regained’ Texas, the MO Compromise would apply to it.
If Vermont became independent, the surly Quebecois would immediately invade. They would violate your hot blonde ski bunnies in Stowe, and sail your boats on the clear blue waters of Lake Champlain. And there’s nothing proud Vermonters could or would do about it. And they’d make you speak French. And we wouldn’t care.
HBO did a movie a decade ago about what would happen if Idaho seceeded, and the result was civil war (some states coming to the aid of Idaho).
Far more likely than mass secession is that the Federal Government will completely break down, a scenario predicted in a recent book “Nemesis: The Last Days of the American Republic” by Chalmers Johnson.
The thesis of the book is that no country, including the US, can sustain imperialism abroad and democracy domestically for very long. Either the country has to abandon its empire, like Britain did, or abandon its democracy, like Rome did. This is because the tyranical things an empire has to do, like invade countries, torcher citizens, put down insurrections, etc. are antithetical to democratic values.
The most likely scenario would be a financial disaster severe enough that the government would have to shut down. Considering how much foreign debt we are accumulating and how many enemies abroad we are making, a bankruptcy followed by a collapse of the dollar is not considered to be wildly speculative these days.
Historically, the “empire” will turn on its own citizens to maintain power, and that is when democracy will end and usually martial law begins. (See Star Wars Episode III)
But, as pointed out above, our military is in a very bad state of affairs right now, if martial law was declared, the armed forces could not possibly sustain it for very long. So if the federal government did break down, that is not an option.
Luckily there is a backup plan built right into the constitution, and that is the 50 states taking over in their own jurisdiction. If the federal government can no longer pay the bills, and dollars are suddenly worthless, I can see this being a feasible alternative.
#30, somehow I just can’t see California being able to pay its own post-secession bills either.