A German woman judge has refused a Moroccan-born woman permission to file for divorce by interpreting the Koran as allowing husbands to beat their wives.
“Where are we living? Woman judge allows beating in marriage… and invokes the Koran,” said a front-page headline in Germany’s top-selling Bild newspaper, reflecting the widespread angry reaction on Thursday.
“This Moroccan woman has the same right to protection from a violent husband as any German woman. Anything else would be misconceived sensitivity to the benefit of the husband and would amount to racist discrimination against the wife,” said the Tageszeitung daily.
The Central Council of Muslims in Germany also condemned the decision.
“The judge should have made a decision based on the German constitution instead of the Koran,” said spokeswoman Nurhan Soykan, who said that violence and mistreatment, regardless of the gender of the victim, were also grounds for divorce in the Islamic world.
“When the Koran takes precedence over the German Basic Law, then I can only say: Good night Germany,” Ronald Pofalla, the secretary general of the conservative Christian Democratic Union of Chancellor Angela Merkel, told Bild.
The kowtowing to these ridiculous Muslim laws will be the undoing of Europe.
Some more evidence that immigrants to Western countries continue to live with their old country’s cultural mores but westerners in muslim countries cannot.
Perhaps someone should send this judge on a field trip to Afghanistan so she can gain some perspective on the rights of women in bass-ackwards Islamic cultures… after she is disrobed and disbarred that is.
This is actually warning of PC gone array. Decision is likely completely legal because of German law of PC origins that allows application of the “native law” (my rough translation) for foreign immigrants. Ie. if something is customary in the immigrant country of origin (and the accused has good lawyer), judge can allow this person’s conduct. (As I am not lawyer, above represents my understanding but native German readers can comment more). This may go even to the level of murder. I know about this German law “peculiarity” from the murder case involving Albanian national in 1980’s that was in the news in the country of my origin at the time. Person have received minimal sentence (if I remmember well less than 3 years) for premeditated murder just because there is customary “blood revenge” in Albanian culture and this guy was “avenging” someone else…
Can I point out that this article has some HUGE holes in it.
Everybody — even the Muslims — disagreed with the verdict but the article doesn’t give us any details of the case or the judgment.
It almost as the ring of urban myth to it, in that way. (I’m no saying it is — I’m just saying that the article is suspect.)
one wacky judge does not a cultural apocalypse make …
Don’t know about the Koran, but if it’s anything like the Bible, it can be spun to “prove” anyone’s point. Using that as the basis for a court ruling sounds completely unbelievable. The lesson for those that think there should be no (or less) separation between church and state is to ask yourself if you’d think the same thing if the state didn’t happen to use YOUR religion.
#6…..this isn’t isolated. This kind of thing is happening in France, Germany, the Netherlands, Belgium and England. So many Europeans have this attitude of **don’t rock the boat** and **bend over backwards for the Muslims** that it’s no longer a joke.
This from a country that arrests Christians who home school their children.
This court case is just the tip of the iceberg. The judge has been removed from the case and Germany is not at the risk ov becoming a sharia state. The ruling, btw, was not denying a divorce, but denying an accelerated divorce. We have a mandatory “separation year” before a couple can be legally divorced, thought to give things time to settle down before they have to go to court. This woman was filing for a final ruling during that year. Sadly, the year will be over in May or so, thus due to this stupid ruling here, her case will be obsolete once it’s decided by a newly appointed judge.
In the end, it’s the same basic thing: we need to get to a point where “religious feelings” and “cultural behaviour” based on religious books are not something to be respected but ridiculed.
Some people are stupid enough to have true religious feelings, others are smart enough to use them. Get over with it. We must not have any respect for people who base their behavioural rules on an imaginary friend called god, jahweh or allah.
Religion is poison. It’s a drug as bad as heroin or anything. It kills people’s ability to think, it makes people hostile to others, it makes people easy to manipulate for those who control the drug and it creates regions where the non-intoxicated poeple are a minority, in constant danger of being mobbed by the drug mafia, or religious community, if you want.
pj
>>Don’t know about the Koran, but if it’s anything like the Bible, it can be spun to “prove” anyone’s point.
I do know a little about Koran and a lot about the Bible and I think you are absolutely right. Sharia law can be even amore complicated because of the Hadith, which has varying — and debatable — levels of authority.
IMHO, I think it important for westerners to remember that the LOUDEST proclamations my Muslim leaders are often not commonly held.
Recently there have been some very loud declarations about how Islam says that Muslim women must wear the Hijab (aka Burkah).
Most Muslims don’t practice this, as far as I’ve ever seen. Saudi — yes. Afghanistan under the Taliban — yet. Most everybody else — no.
Lots and lots of good Muslim women don’t even routinely cover their heads – let alone cover from head-to-toe.
So when you hear some loudmouth Mullah making some declaration about Islam, remember that this may not be accepted by the vast majority of Muslims.
Just recently I was in Pakistan talking with a (Pakistani) woman active in family planning and I was surprised and amused at what frank things she had to say about the Mullahs!
>> In the end, it’s the same basic thing: we need to get to a point where “religious feelings” and “cultural behaviour” based on religious books are not something to be respected but ridiculed.
Wow, won’t that be progress! 😉
I vote for mutual respect, instead.
I vote for finding a balance point where people can have their religions but cannot impose them on others. It’s like separation of church and state – didn’t the U.S. once have something like that? – with no laws allowed that are driven by religion, not jurisprudence.
I’m not the first one to have that wistful dream. USA people read your Bill of Rights – the U.S. used to have one of those, IIRC.
Sometimes stupid things happen. However, the public outcry has been very loud after this verdict was made and I think that’s just part of democracy: allowing the freedom to make mistakes, and be able to correct them.
#12: do you believe in Santa Claus? The flying Spaghetti Monster? Elves? Little Green Men? The stork bringing the babies? Allah? Javeh? Virgin birth? The moon being made of white cheese?
Why do you think some of those ideas are less romantic than others or deserve more respect? Which ones? If I state it was my religion to believe that the moon is made of white cheese, how does that deserve less respect than if someone else states he has read in an old book that women are unclean because they bleed once a month and thus he can treat them as he likes?
Get over it! Religions are something that we should no longer respect. Fighting them is hard as we’ve seen in the many wars that they’ve fought against each other over the millenia, but maybe showing how ridiculous their ideas and teachings are will work.
pj
#15, do not drag His Noodlyness into this. He does not support smiting people with his noodly appendage for misbehavior, but you may be denied from the great stripper factories and beer volcanoes in Heaven,
RAmen.
#16 🙂
Germany is starting to take steps away from the precipice. The first step they took was to force cultural matriculation by forcing all children to go to government schools. They are starting to rebel against egregious pro-Muslim decisions. The other West European states aren’t.
A family friend stayed in Paris for two weeks. She reported that one night she heard a powerful explosion from downtown. The next week, no news media had any mention of an explosion. It was evidently too politically incorrect to mention.
Do you remember the civil war in Bosnia-Herzegovina? This was a Muslim vs. non-Muslim war, stopped by NATO. But what if the NATO members are in civil war? Will the United States armed forces be called in?
#7 #9. given that the actual Muslims in Germany denounced this ruling, I am not seeing an avalanche going here.
and there’s nothing more PC than protecting the rights of women.
Here’s a sexist joke in line with the posting:
How do give a woman more freedom of expression?
You take your penis out of her mouth.
if they married under german law ..that law would applie…german law reconizes the law of other countries.when i married my american husband…in germany we had to have a translator and they made it ample clear to him that in case of divorce in germany …german law would applie……i live since 10 years in america and believe me having juries with dummies in it given people sentences although not fully understanding law and more so judge by gu tfeeling ..i much rather be in a german court anytime ..if i ever did something wrong…sorry for any spelling mistakes…
It show that Islam is the only truth religion in the world.
This ruling is so outrageous, I don’t believe it. Don’t see any links, the main one does not open. Civil courts don’t apply religious law–even in Germany.
Something is missing–like the parties initially agreed to arbitration or something like that.
To have “A” Culture, things need to be pretty much uniform, and in many instances, religion is nothing more than culture. AMERICAN culture is to champion individual stupidity. Any –ie, ANY–religion that requires the entire society to conform to its set of beliefs is ANTI-AMERICAN and should be illegal. Reformed Muslims will have a choice, traditional Muslims should be deported.