It never ceases to amaze me how, in the name of God, so many of these people find attacking gays on an assortment of issues (like being in the military when so many other countries — including the UK — openly allow them) is more important than violence, starvation, priests having sex with children and so on. I guess I’m just naive.
An Evangelical’s Concession on Gays
The old and often bitter debate over what causes homosexuality took an unexpected turn this week in the wake of comments by a leading conservative Christian theologian, who says fellow evangelicals should accept that science may one day prove homosexuals are born gay. “We sin against homosexuals by insisting that sexual temptation and attraction are predominately chosen,” wrote the Rev. Albert Mohler, the influential president of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. Mohler’s position is a startling departure from years of insistence among fundamentalists that gay rights advocates are wrong when they say homosexuality is not something they choose.
Even more surprising, perhaps, is the implication of Mohler’s statement that science can help inform Christians’ response to moral questions — a rare admission among evangelicals. “The Al Mohler example is certainly a departure,” said President Richard J. Mouw of nondenominational Fuller Theological Seminary in Pasadena, the largest evangelical seminary in North America. “Evangelicals, and I am one, haven’t always exhibited very clear thinking about science and spirituality.”
On the other hand:
That’s what has angered gay rights advocates, and overshadowed Mohler’s concession that homosexuals may be born that way. “What is wrong with Mohler’s argument is that it implies that there is something wrong with being gay,” said Joe Solmonese, president of the Human Rights Campaign. “I would welcome the fact that they are beginning to concede that homosexuality is not a chosen lifestyle. But it is hard for me to believe that anyone that would then conclude that our next step ought to be to get about the business of changing everybody is really offering any sort of enlightened view.”
68, Please, next time cite your quotes. TJ bothered to. That means anyone could go and find out exactly what was said. If you don’t cite your quotes, then they just go into the bullshit department.
Belief in a Creator; “We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness” Declaration of Independence
I don’t see anything religious about this. My parents created me. Although, 225 years ago only my father would have been credited.
Belief in God being the Lawgiver, ‘!..to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Name’s God entitle them.. ” Declaration of Independence
Yup, ole Mother Nature got credit for that one. Name’s God, is he related to the Spaghetti Monster? Gee, another one where YOUR god isn’t mentioned.
Belief that God is the Judge; “We … appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world .. Declaration of Independence
Nope, doesn’t say that your god is the supreme god.
Belief that God is the Provider, “And for the support of this Declaration, with afirm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor ” Declaration of Independence
Again, where the eff is YOUR god in this passage? You pull these stupid lines out and write “see everybody, god says this…”. Bull shit.
#68,
Show my the Criminal Code that says
“Thou shalt not kill”
Show me the Criminal Code that says:
“Thou shalt not steal”
Show me the Criminal Code that says :
“Thou shalt not covet your neighbor’s ass”
Show me the Criminal Code that says:
“Keep the Sabbath holy”
Show me the Criminal Code that says:
“I am the Lord your god who brought you out of Egypt”
Show me the Criminal Code that says”
“Have no other gods before me”
Actually, I will be very surprised if you can find ONE Criminal Code law that repeats ANY of your so called ten commandments. There aren’t any. So take your twisted views and put it where the sun don’t shine.
EDITOR, I realize you bend over backwards to be fair and give this side a fair opportunity to respond and make their case. This post #68 though is overly long and repetitive. While it would be unfair of me to make your standards, this post might have been edited for brevity.
#68
> “It would be impossible to govern rightly without God and the Bible” – George Washington
Actually, this quote has never been authenticated and is widely believed to be a fabrication. It is believed to have been a perversion of what he actually said in his 1796 Farewell Address.
Jefferson was clearly a deist and not a Christian:
“Christianity neither is, nor ever was, a part of the common law.”
– Thomas Jefferson – Letter to Thomas Cooper 1814
“Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus.”
– Thomas Jefferson,
> “We have staked the whole future of …” (supposedly by Madison)
This is another fabrication and completely out of line with Madison’s viewpoints. Not one Madison historian has ever been able to authenicate this quote.
“Congress should not establish a religion, and enforce the legal observation of it by law, nor compel men to worship God in any Manner contrary to their conscience.”
– James Madison speaking to Congress 1789.
“Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprize, every expanded prospect.”
– James Madison in a letter to William Bradford 1774.
Washington, Jefferson, and Madison were all deists not christians and of the people you listed where the only Founding Fathers. Of course, I see you forgot Thomas Paine:
“The study of theology, as it stands in Christian churches, is the study of nothing; it is founded on nothing; it rests on nothing; it proceeds by no authorities; it has no data; it can demonstrate nothing and admits of no conclusion.”
…and Ben Franklin:
“Lighthouses are more helpful than churches.”
“Indeed, when religious people quarrel about religion, or hungry people quarrel about victuals, it looks as if they had not much of either among them.”
#68
It occurs to me that you have provided little to establish that the US was founded on christian principles as opposed to jewish or generally deistic ones.
> Eighth and Tenth Commandment: You shall not steal.
Laws against stealing go back a lot further than the 10 Commandments (eye for an eye anyone?).
> You shall not covet
As far as I know there is no law in any country against “coveting”. You can covet all day if you want with no reprocussions. What you cannot do is to act on that coveting.
Amendment 5,14, Article 1 – As far as I know, there is nothing in the Bible that equates to our modern concept of due process as mentioned in the Constitution.
Oh, and about John Adams. He signed the Treaty of Tripoli:
“As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion…”
– Article 11, Treaty of Peace and Friendship between the United States and the Bey and Subjects of Tripoli of Barbary.
In addition that treaty was read aloud to the Senate and passed with a unanimous vote in 1797.
#68
“Suppose a nation in some distant region, should take the Bible for their only law book … What a Paradox would this region be! ”
It is with considerable pleasure that I can finally agree with at least one or your quotations. Unfortunately, had you been paying proper attention, you would have noticed that the correct version is “what a Paradise would this region be”. John Adams’ Diary, February22, 1756.
However, full marks for a really delicious and entertaining slip of the tongue.
Isn’t that a line from that song “Don’t Know Much About History”? 🙂
But seriously, great work, Fred, Thomas, and Mr. Fusion.
Deuteronomy 23:3
‘No Ammonite or Moabite may be admitted to the congregation of Y**H. And none of their descendants, even after ten generations, shall ever be admitted to the congregation of Y**H.’
I wonder if that’s in BS’s Constitution.
:tongue: