Remember the book and film Catch-22 which referred to a reg created to keep the pilots from going home by stating that if you knew you had gone crazy, you aren’t really crazy because you are sane enough to know you are crazy?
I guess this is a companion piece to my earlier post about them doing the same for those with physical injuries. One more reason why this post today is apparently coming to pass. Add the Walter Reed scandal for what happens when they do get back injured and young people have to ask why would they ever even consider enlisting.
Mentally Unfit, Forced To Fight
The U.S. military is sending troops with serious psychological problems into Iraq and is keeping soldiers in combat even after superiors have been alerted to suicide warnings and other signs of mental illness, a Courant investigation has found.
Despite a congressional order that the military assess the mental health of all deploying troops, fewer than 1 in 300 service members see a mental health professional before shipping out.
Once at war, some unstable troops are kept on the front lines while on potent antidepressants and anti-anxiety drugs, with little or no counseling or medical monitoring.
And some troops who developed post-traumatic stress disorder after serving in Iraq are being sent back to the war zone, increasing the risk to their mental health.
The biggest risk to the world is the chickenshit American electorate who keep this war in business. Cringing in the corner and hoping that politicians will save them from this decade’s bogeyman is not exactly the way to build a better life – for your own family, much less the larger global family that lives just down the block.
“Support our Troops” anyway you can.
With the ‘New Meds’ they can continue fighting. Of course, the Admin can’t afford to let anyone leave either. No one is signing up to go die/be maimed anymore. The volunteer service is no longer functioning.
Politics prevents this from being treated as a ‘Real War’ so there is no Draft, no mandatory commitment. However, most intelligent young people know from the news (cause you can bet they are watching) that if you sign up, you may never get the chance to be discharged.
Whats going to happen when no one signs up for this?
You can bet that something will have to be done.
Hopefully, it won’t be at the expense of our troops and our countries freedoms. You know, the stuff they tell us are the reasons for us being over there to begin with.
#2: “You know, the stuff they tell us are the reasons for us being over there to begin with.”
You mean oil?
C’,mon Unlce Dave – They told us we were there initially (when I was there) because the Iraqi’s were baby killers. Because they were taking over the peaceful regime established in Kuwait by the king.
Now, they tell the populace its for WMD’s…..no wait….Nuclear Weapons….no, for the freedom for Iraqis…no, for the reason that “we fight them there so we don’t fight them here”….no, for Democracy and freedom for the Iraqi people…..
We all KNOW what its about…..it was on that list of “Unspeakable Truths” a while back.
Yet, we continue to support the effort. We send untrained, unequipped teenagers to kill for the rights of the Oil Empires to Iraqi Oil (what is it that Kucinich is questioning?) and expect them NOT to be harmed.
War is always easier when there are no survivors.
The Admin not only did not plan for wounded, they went so far over the last 10 years to cut the VA funding down to 25% of what it should be, and then tripled the amount of people needing it.
This is in no way ‘Like Vietnam’ because at least there we were just fighting for the Military Industry. Not the Oil Industry.
#4 “We send untrained, unequipped teenagers…”
You are an idiot. The least trained deployed member of the US National Guard is better trained than 99% of the war fighters in all of history.
And just because every soldier doesn’t have his own M1A1 tank to drive around downtown Baghdad in no way changes the fact that we have the best equipped military the world has ever known. And that is surprising considering how the Clinton admin gutted the military just as the previous Democratic President Jimmy Carter had done before.
What we need now is for “Dick is a killer” Cheney to go over there and slap a few of them around for being cowards.
#5 – Have you ever been in the Military>?
If the training and equipment is so “above standard” why is it that military families had to send armored Vests over, why the troops had to improvise armor for the vehicles, why the rations are horrid and out of date? I understand that war is hard. I have been in several battles and skirmishes. I know what dead means.
I also know firsthand that the equipment and training is substandard.
I know for a fact that the Radio equipment dated back 50 years. That the radar and comm equipment was bought on a who is cheapest basis, and kept in inventory decades after it is practical.
I served during three administrations. Clinton cut no more than Reagan or Bush. There was just more media about it.
Republicans have always been “the Party of the Military” in name only.
The horrid accounts of body armor, weapon readiness, lacking of armour for vehicles, lacking of food and rations (how many times did my squad spend waiting for food and never got it….and how many instances lately in this war of choice have the rations been substandard or rotten),
Say what you will. If you haven’t served in a line unit, then you will never know. If you have not had to wade throught he red tape of disability for your contribution to ‘America” you will never know.
We treat the GI’s in speaking engagements like they were true patriots, only to disavow them when they return. Wounded or maimed is not “The American Dream” but it is something more than not serving. I proudly risked all for my Country. To find out now that it was all for Corporate empires….well, maybe they should get the bill for the maimed/wounded/dead.
Our military is broken. We have contracts in place to keep soldiers long past their service requirements *I was called up for Afghanistan, and was willing to go until they found out I was deaf from prior service, even though I went to the VA and filed all the paperwork numerous times. * We expect the walking wounded to continue fighting long past the times they are prepared for it. Then the Admin tells them not to talk about their experience. Not to discuss the squalor in which they are forced to live. Then the blame for the conditions of the living quarters is placed on the Troop. The admin doesn’t allow the returning bodies to be filmed, nor even bother to attend the funerals.
We expect so much. Yet no one but the few and the proud actually pay the price.
Call me an idiot. I don’t mind. Just don’t ignore the FACTS.
Q: to ponder…
A nation that cant keep 1% of its citizians ready and trianed for War.
What happened to ALL the money that has been spent between wars??
every year the Pentagon wants MORE money and its almost alwyas GIVEN…
Even with the idea that ALL wars are fought ON THE GROUND..
wouldnt it be better to ARM the grunts better then to build NEW planes that are costing 10,000 lives, when we cant FIGHT with planes/ships/tanks??
This is happening right now to one of my best friends. He came back from Iraq pretty messed up after he fulfilled his “Active” duties about 3 years ago. When he returned, I didn’t know him at all. He did not have the sparkle in his eye nor did he have the same love for life as he did when he left. It has taken him the last 3 years to get his head screwed on somewhat straight again, and now the Army wants to send him back to Iraq, even though he fulfilled his Active duty. There is like 5 years of inactive duty in which he could be called back to service. He’s been seeing a counselor and a psychologist and has been advised by those professionals that he is unfit for duty. However the government says that he is fit for duty and now has to report back to base.
how does this surprise anyone?
i don’t believe that dick&w deliberately lied to anyone about anything to start this war, but i do believe that they thought it would be easy and cheap to get done.
they were dead wrong, and now america’s sons and daughters are paying the ultimate price because of just how badly these two draft-dodgers thought they could start a war on two fronts.
they’re a couple of dumbasses and jan ’09 can’t come soon enough.
#7, No but not for lack of trying. A medical condition during qualification for Army WOFT kept me out.
Can you name a military that has ever been better armed and trained than the current US military with the possible exception of the US Military of the late 80’s? Most militarises don’t even give their troops body armor. When this war started Bush had been in office for all of 2 years. Clinton and to a lesser extent Bush 41 had taken apart the military that it took Regan 8 years to rebuild. The post Vietnam, Carter led, dismantling got the US to the point where we couldn’t fly a few helicopters and airplanes into Iran without them running into each other.
As far as call ups are concerned those contract have been there since at least the mid 80’s. When I was going in I was made well aware of the commitment that would still be there when my active duty was complete. We’ve had 30 years of people joining the national guard, Reserves and even the active duty military thinking that it was nothing but a way to pay for college. Now, some of them, act like it is a surprise that they are activated.
The VA has always been screwed up I’ll give you that. But you can’t blame Bush for that.
#7, having been in the military, I’m sure you know what HMWWV stands for — High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicle. The fact of the matter is that “HumVees,” as jeep replacements, were never meant to be used as armored troop transport vehicles. I’m sure it would have been nice if everybody was cruising around in Bradley Fighting Vehicles from the get-go, but that was not a need identified or anticipated when the long-range strategic planning that lead to the decisions about how to best equip the force were made over the years. But anybody who jumps on the blame George Bush or Donald Rumsfeld bandwagon because we didn’t go into Iraq with armored Humvees is just dumb. But yes, the “lowest bidder” contracting system the government employs will always be a cause for concern. And people will always be able to be better trained and equipped in a perfect world. But watching the live advance of individual units over “blue force tracker” is definitely something we wouldn’t be capable of doing if we were all still stuck using 50 year old technology… even when things do tend to stop working from time to time **sigh**.
While some of Rumsfeld’s “transformation” initiatives around the idea of a smaller, lighter, more agile military were a fool’s errand (sometimes a small force will do, but sometimes you just need a good old-fashioned army); other things (such as creating systems for standard DoD wide unit readiness tracking) make a lot of sense and will lead to a better force.
I’m not defending Rumsfeld, because I have no interest in doing so, but I do agree with his statement that “you go to war with the army you have, not the one you may wish you had.”
And you reprimand the remaining forces that complain.
I was in when the ‘Hummvee’ was introduced. It was meant as replacement for the CUCV (‘CukVee’ or Blazer) which was a replacement for the GammaGoat/ All terrain vehicle. All 3 types of vehicle were still in use while I was in. All three had faults and merits. At least the Jeep and Goat were made from Steel.
But we digress from the gist of the post. The TROOPS. The Equipment was and is subpar. Trouble is, they don’t replace, they just recycle.
I went through 3 different flac jackets to get one issued that did not have ‘scars’ from previous use. The new ones were always sent to the upper ranks. They needed them more than the line troops.
I flew in Apaches, Hawks, and assorted other craft. All of them maintained by servicement…who had the job of pulling the part and taking it to the Civilian Contracted repair shop. Basically, exchange broken for refurbished and ‘tested’.
Rather than have a troop, who spent months (if not years) in training repair it….it was contracted out.
The equipment I worked with was stamped 1955. I worked and trained BG with equipment of serial number 02A. This was in the late 80’s early 90’s.
I talk to some of these troops still. Same equipment. Unless it has been blown up.
I have been issued MRE’s that had maggots in them.
While in a combat zone.
I have gone without so other troops could manage.
Yes, I agree that we go to war with what we have. But when you hold no one accountable, how do you expect to improve? When you say ‘Thats just how it is’…how do you expect change?
The troops, the guys with the guns…having to fight an enemy unknown…in a totally hostile environment….are the ones that have to pay the cost our Government doesn’t. They would rather pocket the money that was supposed to go for armor. They would rather give the job of management to the Contractor. Rather than face the fact that young people and civilians are dying daily.
Doesn’t seem to matter as long as the contract is signed.
No one I know in civilian life has had to pay a higher cost for any wars in my life. So they tend to ignore the issues.
Or they don’t bother holding those who profit accountable.
50k is not enough for a life. Disability is not enough to justify a war where the only ones that gain anything are the Corporations that move out of the country so they don’t have to face up to US laws or responsibility.
Just ask our Vice President. The one that still gets money from the Corporations.
Support of the troops HAS to mean more than I flew a magnet and a flag…..and it has to last longer than the next election.
Doesn’t seem to though. We still have people on the street who fought in Vietnam.
‘There but for the grace….:
Learn to summarize and edit your own comments, folks. Pages and pages in 1 comment do not get read or make your point.
That’s another part of the Comments Guide – even when you’re on topic.
Why, with all of our enormous expenditures over the decades, why is this the “army you have”? Why do we spend on big iron when basic necessities are overpriced and underperforming, if they even exist?
Mike, why do we have the army we have? Surely your great expertise in acronyms should solve this little problem.
#11 As far as current battle readiness and live ammo training:
Sweden, Switzerland, Australia, Poland, Singapore. Probably China and India if you count quantity against quality.
Sure, some of those have small armies, but we can’t even muster 20,000 now. However, I think the first four could probably take us on in a conventional conflict given our current state, no problem. Further, Singapore and Switzerland somehow manage, despite their size, to have excellent home designed infantry weapons that generally make our equivalents look like junk, despite being equivalently priced. We have a huge military industrial complex, and they aren’t doing their jobs. They are too big for our own good, and this won’t be solved until we embrace -small- business and focus on basics above all else.
Just out of curiosity, and I really do hate to get off topic, but what are the enlistment requirements now as compared to say 5, 10, 20 years ago?
#16 we can muster way more than 20,000.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/iraq_orbat.htm
#16, well, since I bided my time during the Cold War as a senior defense planner in between cocaine binges, I’d be more than happy to explain why our military has been structured as it is…
Excellent, Mike I am happy to oblige. So, tell me, why did we spend untold billions of dollars on a weapons system that was too big to transport, and was helpfully named the Crusader so that it could never be used anywhere useful?
Why did we not develop and field electromagnetic weaponry back in the 60’s and 70’s, when it seems logical we should have? Don’t give me the power source claptrap, diesel generators go anywhere and any microwave oven can kill with only 500 watts. Waves are much cheaper than bullets and obsolete most advanced weapons systems that don’t have some serious EM protection.
Why did we switch from army sourcing, that works poorly, to private contracting that works abysmally for ten times the price for things such as mess and water?
Why are we still using the AR-15? It’s like taking a southern belle to a demolition derby.
Those three should help, I think, but I have many more. Do share your knowledge.
Four, even! My fingers got ahead of my abacus. 😉
Sorry Li, but the first rule they teach in Defense Planning Bureaucrat school is to never entertain loaded questions over the Internet.
“16, well, since I bided my time during the Cold War as a senior defense planner in between cocaine binges, I’d be more than happy to explain why our military has been structured as it is…”
“Sorry Li, but the first rule they teach in Defense Planning Bureaucrat school is to never entertain loaded questions over the Internet.”
Unless they are, of course, your own. You indian giver! (I’m Cherokee, so I cite Mel’s Rule) But of course, they also taught you that up at Defense Planning school, eh? Promising much and delivering little. . .
Ha! touché
😀
Commendably gracious, Mike. I actually think that I can wager guesses;
1)Someone with stars though it was purdy.
2)The weapon makers realized that such weapons wouldn’t only make our current ones obsolete, they would make war and they, themselves obsolete. Why build planes when some geek on the ground can wave his magic wand and they all come tumbling down? Complete EM protection is a myth.
3)Greed.
4)An unwitting coincidence, a conspiracy of idiots. So many companies started making the AR-15 that retooling costs came to exceed maintenance on that southern belle. Even though it still jams at the worst possible time, which is anytime.
You might not be able to entertain loaded questions over the internet, but can you grade sincere answers?
#9: He didn’t have the “sparkle” in his eyes?
Oh my, well that is tragic and heroic. He should get 100 percent disability for that.
Imagine, the spark is gone. Boo hoo. Was he your gay lover?
Highs and lows come quicker around here than they do in a crack house!
Hahaha!!!
I just keep telling myself “it’s only the internet”
Tim McVeigh, Charles Whitman….etc. etc…..sooner or later the next militarily trained killer with a broken mind will ply his trade on the home soil again.
29 – And then the U.S. will attack Iran?
Dennis – Thanks for giving us information, not posturing. And thanks also for your service in combat, while I’m at it. Those who haven’t been there are both out of line and unqualified to criticize, mock or denigrate those who have.
#30 — still practicing the ultimate in egregious behavior.
You can’t discuss racism unless you’re Black – don’t discuss seniors’ problems unless you’re over 65 — you can’t know anything about the moon unless you’ve been there.
Stick with Walt Disney, dude. Your lead idealogue.