The state chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union is suing the Newark public school district, saying a school’s decision to hold its graduation ceremonies in a Baptist church violated a Muslim student’s religious freedom.
It also violated every other students’ right to an educational process — separate from religion.
The incident violated provisions in the state constitution prohibiting public institutions from showing a preference for certain religious sects over others; compelling people to attend a place of worship; and segregating or discriminating against public school students because of their religious principles, the ACLU-NJ asserts.
The ACLU-NJ said it first complained about a West Side High School graduation at New Hope Baptist Church in 2005, but agreed not to sue when the district’s legal director made assurances that the school district would avoid holding a graduation at a religious location again.
But in 2006, graduation was again held at New Hope. And the principal at the time even told graduating students that they would get two additional tickets for family and friends to go to the graduation, provided they also attended a separate religious baccalaureate ceremony for the class at a Roman Catholic church.
If you want to get rid of constitutional principles separating church and state, there are legal means and methods. True Believers act like they’re above the law. But, it shouldn’t take an outside agency to push government into obeying the law.
Of course, the dimwits who ignore that constitutional separation will only focus on the initial complainant being Muslim. Cripes, if I lived in his neck of the woods, I’d join the suit on behalf of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
If the reason for using the church is it was the largest space within their budget, and they work with the church to limit religious symbols in the space, I have no problem. however, since they are rewarding people who go to the baccalaureate, then I do have a problem since they are clearly trying to tie it to religion, which is not okay.
Nice try, John. Of course, my HS graduation — back in the Age of Dinosaurs — was held at the school football ground. If it looked like rain, we simply postponed it a day or two. Free.
Constitutional principles are long gone. While there may be people here that help to protect the first amendment they become hypocritical when the second is mentioned. So its pointless when no one from the left or right supports the fine document all the way. That should be at least a starting point before one considers left/right camps.
Holy shit. What a bunch of whiners… on both sides. It’s just a fucking building.
Religion has given all these people a bunch of psychoses. They’re all acting exactly like mental patients who can’t touch a doorknob because they’re afraid of the germs.
Where do these ACLU radicals think they’re coming from!
Hmmm. Let’s see….
“The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.”
– George Washington, Treaty of Tripoli, 1796
“Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.”
– Thomas Jefferson, February 10, 1814
Oh.
…wow. It’s times like this I start considering joining the church of the flying spaghetti monster, myself, all blessings on his noodly appendages. Do you have any application forms John?
Like the first comment pointed out – if it’s the largest space available, I could have probably said hey, cut them some slack… but by tying the ability to get additional tickets to attendance of a religious ceremony, all bets are off. Have graduation in the school gymnasium and knock off pushing your personal religious beliefs down someone else’s throat. Jeesh.
Religious nutcases invented OCD. Isn’t it one of the commandments?
“True Believers act like they’re above the law.” Actually, true believers respect the law of land. Whack jobs who give Christians a bad name think they’re above the law.
Bullcrap – its a building for pete’s sake – just the ACLU going on in their neverending campaign to eliminate organized religion. Honestly, if you’re looking for a nice auditorium to hold your grad ceremony in, who tends to have a good big one they’ll give you for a decent rate? … Whatever the biggest church in the area is. If you’re worried about religious symbols, well, at least around where I’m from, it’d be a matter of covering the big cross on the back wall, and that’d be about it. To repeat – to the church community, its just a building – a convenient place to meet and hold worship. Nothing more.
ACLU is only as radical as the constitution they’ve pledged to defend. All believers believe they are the only “true believers”; it’s part of the definition. Arguably, the radical fundamentalists (who think with their fundas) are the most self-consistent of the religious individuals. They are also the most frightening. Interestingly, as we have been advancing in other human rights, we seem to be going backward on freedom of and from religion.
Studies are showing atheists to be the most discriminated against group there is. This is probably the reason for the growing number of antitheists, like myself. As if I wasn’t sick enough from the godvertisements on my money and in the pledge of alegiance, both from the McCarthy era, now I hear about this kind of stuff going on in the bible belt. Oh wait .. this is happening in New Jersey! Jane get me off this crazy planet!!
It is JUST a building!
The church is when one or more join inside the building for the purpose of worshiping or studying the bible, etc. When it is being used for some other ceremony or activity.. IT IS JUST A BUILDING that can fit many people. I would think that a inside a Catholic church with all the statues and symbols around… it would make someone think about it… but inside a baptist one… I doubt they even have a cross. If they hace the cross, it is usually pretty easy to remove for a day or two.
Reading this blog and many others I can see where all the atheists and agnostics hang around. 😉
I think worrying about the type of church and the symbolism of that particular flavor of the judeo-christian-islamic religion (deliberately singular) sets a really bad precedent. It’s actually not “just a building” in many cases. I’ve been inside churches that still to this day describe the way the Jews killed Jesus, complete with images, in stone inlays.
Our laws are based on two types of law statutory and precedent. This would permanently put a precedent in the books that could easily and always be a reference for those who want to impose their religion on others. Further, most churches have a graveyard with lots of symbolism out back. In short, no this really just is not OK.
Find another building, use the football field, use the gymnasium, whatever. But no, do not use a house of worship. If the town has no theater, no sports arena, no other large place to hold graduation, then I’d suggest that the town is sorely lacking anyway. Fix the problem.
So what is the problem? The school knows it is an issue that they can’t win. Yet they did it any way. Now they will end up fighting this in court and end up paying the equivalent of a couple of teacher’s salaries to lawyers and the plaintiff.
Because this is outright misconduct, the Principal should pay the damages out of his own pocket. It won’t happen of course and the plaintiff’s family will get a bad rap for this.
Define freedom from religion. Is that to be the case even if it violates the rights of another? Ie. Jane atheist does not like the fact her neighbor has a cross in the yard. So does so called freedom from religion give Jane the power to violate the property rights of her neighbor? If that is not clarified then down the line it will lead to the above. You could also use that so called freedom to suppress the free speech of others.
#10 “It is JUST a building!” Precisely. It is just a building dedicated to one particular faith and its members.
Besides, Baptist churches give me the willies. They are so barren, uniform; and the appointments make me wonder where the tithes go, notwithstanding the pastor’s vehicle and bank.
“The church is when one or more join inside the building for the purpose of worshiping… …blah blah blah” So i guess that churches should only pay property taxes when they aren’t busy being churches?
“Reading this blog and many others I can see where all the atheists and agnostics hang around.” Good to know when to keep your logical fallacies hidden, isn’t it?
Freedom from religion? This is about the separation of church and state. The neighbor is not FORCING Jane to worship the cross, nor is the cross being paid for by the government. You can put any religious symbol you want on private property, but on public property (aka paid for by all us taxpayers, taxpayers of all different religions and the nonreligious), it is not allowed. Neither are people who earn their salary through taxes allowed to push any religious views.
1. They agreed to NOT have it there the previous year to avoid getting sued, yet they went ahead and did it anyhow the following year. The known consequence followed.
2. They were offering free tickets to the graduation if the students attended a religious class. Clearly their bias is shown, and paints #1 in an even worse light.
3. Those who mention football fields are exactly right. What school district doesn’t have an athletic field? Heck, even a public park can be co-opted for the purpose. They picked a religious building because that’s exactly the bias they intended.
I have no doubt there would have been a number of Christians up in arms if the principal had suggested they hold the graduation in a Mosque (nevermind that the Muslims might be just as mad about it)…so most of the rationalization given above for justfying it is pretty much a straw man argument, if everything in the article is true.
If the school is a publically-funded organization, they should have the ceremony in a secular facility.
Thanks Gregg for a nearly perfect answer. You beat me to it. Yes, it’s about public property and tax dollars.
Minor difference of opinion though, someone who earns his money from tax dollars can put whatever s/he wants on private property. Once the money is earned, it’s private money again.
They can also proselytize on their own time. Just not on the job and not in an official capacity.
“Freedom from religion? This is about the separation of church and state.” Someone else brought it up.
I’m no legal expert, but the constitution never mentions the “separation of church and state”. The first amendment states “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof”. That’s the only “constitutional principle” on the subject.
As far as a public school holding a ceremony in a church building, I don’t see how that prohibits the free exercise of religion. Does the Muslim faith prevent it’s members from entering a building dedicated to a different faith? If that’s the case, it would be the only tenet supporting this conflict.
I agree that it is probably in poor form to hold the ceremony at a church, but the so-called “constitutional argument” is moot.
So this school doesn’t have a gym or football field? That’s where every high school graduation I’ve ever seen or heard of has been held. Even my Masters degree graduation was in the gym.
Maybe it’s just me, but isn’t it a little odd that the complainant won’t go into a competing church? I’d bet that when he finds a hot Lutheran chick he wants to score, he’ll go to her church in a New York minute……
To the best of my knowledge and belief, this is the only ACLU lawsuit that I agree with.
22: The problem here is that forcing people to attend graduation in a church is in a way respecting an establishment of religion, and might indeed force those of other faiths or no faith, to violate some aspect of their religion or personal ethics. This would be especially true if the church has statues, crosses in stained glass windows, altars, pulpits etc. Would you be upset if you lived in a community where a mosque was the largest building in town, and the graduation was held there?
My graduation was held in a basketball arena, as were my children’s high school graduations and my older kids college graduations. In most towns there are buildings, movie or community theaters, and other places where graduations can be held that have few religious trappings.
Uh, where is the congress involved here? Did they make a law establishing a religion? Did they make one prohibiting the free exercise thereof? Or is this just someone else reading what they want the constitution to say? Perhaps.
I’d say the ACLU is molding the constitution into what they want, not defending it.
#27: Local government is subject to the Constitution. Restrictions on the Federal government also apply to the States.
#26…thanks. I was mostly speaking to the legality issue. And, no, personally I would not be offended/uncomfortable/whatever by entering a mosque. I know many people visit old churches to look at the architecture since they are usually the only buildings that survive. I would feel the same about visiting a Buddhist temple/ mosque to simply take in the architecture or artistic statuary.
For me, though, there is a great divide between where you worship and how you worship (the latter being much more important). This is not forcing religion on anyone. This is forcing surroundings on people. And, if I’m not mistaken, the Muslim faith believes that Jesus was a prophet, but not God.
And, for argument’s sake 26, if such a movie theater as you describe had posters of scantily clad women hung, would that not be offensive to those religions who believe women should not expose that much flesh? The argument can be applied to many situations.
Again, I’m not arguing that this is the best option for this town, but unless the ACLU received an actual complaint from a Muslim, they needn’t be making arguments where there is no disagreement. Really, should the ACLU be able to sue anyone without having a complainant? It doesn’t seem right.
#16 – That may have been the point. I believe Baptists tend to avoid any display of religious symbols (crucifix, etc) in their churches, similar to Muslim beliefs in not displaying images of the Prophet Mohammed. If you have to have a symbol free building, use a Baptist church. By the way, I understand the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster forbids its members from entering any buildings with right angles in it.
#22 – Exactly right Doug. And your question is easily answered – Does the Muslim faith prevent it’s members from entering a building dedicated to a different faith? Take a visit to Constantinople, once THE seat of the Christian world – Hagia Sofia; it’s been a mosque for a long time now. ‘Nuff said.
The whole situation is silly anyway. Do graduation in a movie theatre. Better seating, small dias, and you can serve popcorn and drinks! Then watch “Back To School” afterward.
For those of you commenting about how they shouldn’t do this because the building has religious images, SO WHAT? Does looking at a cross force you to convert or affect you in any way? That would be like suing to get a billboard taken down because it forces you to buy a product.
#32 – traaxx
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