Who’s the puppet and who’s the puppet master?
The North Korea intel botch is worse than you think
We have come to the point where nothing that the Bush administration says can—or should—be trusted. That is, the government deserves no confidence.
This judgment (which many might view as laughably late) is sparked by stories in Thursday’s New York Times and Washington Post quoting senior U.S. intelligence officials saying that North Korea might not have an enriched-uranium program after all.
The revelation is stunning on two levels.
First, it suggests that the Bush administration could have struck a deal to halt the North Koreans’ nuclear-weapons program five years ago—before they reprocessed 8,000 nuclear fuel rods into plutonium, before they tested a nuclear bomb for the first time, before they officially became a “nuclear-weapons state.”
Second (and this is the reason for the “no-confidence” stamp), it shows that Bush and his people will say anything, no matter whether it’s true, in order to shore up a political point. It means that U.S. intelligence has become completely corrupted.
We’re saddled with befuddled ideologues whose concept of intelligence proceeds from – What We Believe Must Be So – to – Construct Info To Substantiate Our Beliefs – to – It Must Be So.
Military creationism.
I think the link has one thing backwards and I’m not sure of this because my memory is fuzzy on this one, but I think it was the North Koreans who booted inspectors out that got the Clinton “Agreed Framework” dissolved.
Bush is no more influential than Clinton was.
Striking a deal with North Korea and its current regime is rather naive.
North Korea will do whatever they can to rattle the sabre (i.e. buying centrifuges or test launches of long range missles) and get what they can squeeze out of us or sell to those we oppose. The only country that seems to have any significant role in being influential towards North Korea is China.
The question is if rattling the sabre isn’t enough, will they go through with their “bluff”? Would you rather wait and see if they make one, or do you want to nip this in the bud?
Bush and Clinton both got hit with the stupid stick when it comes to our nation’s ability to gather and filter data. Until the CIA goes through a serious reorganization this will be a serious problem for the nation.
#2 – what are you going to do the nipping with?
#3 – James, I completely agree with your assessment. Why this is a big deal is that Clinton didn’t trumpet his moral and military superiority all over the place. Duhbya does. In my book that makes duhbya the king shit.
4. I would start off with pulling the plug on humanitarian aid since it does not feed the civilian population but their own military.
Trying to take the moral high ground isn’t necessairily a bad thing. However, Clinton may have not “trumpeted” our military superiority but he sure as heck used it on many occassions of which I participated in a few. Bush if anything has been a big supporter of international involvement with North Korea, while Kerry was big on unilateral.
Whatever the case may be, the intel community does need reform.
Most humanitarian aid comes from South Korea, although I’m sure Uncle sugar gives out a fair amount.
Bush is the biggest unilateralist since Andrew Jackson.
The intel community needs a president that says to it – what do you have for me today, not – Pin 9/11 on Iraq!
6. Well in the last presidential election Kerry ran on a unilateral platform with respect to North Korea. Bush opposed that quite vocally and wanted to include all the neighboring Asian countries.
Most humanitarian aid does NOT come from South Korea. China is the largest contributor of humanitarian aid to North Korea. In my humble opinion, most of the motivation for that is to have a buffer between China and a democractic society. Both the United States and South Korea sharply curbed their donations last year when North Korea resumed nuclear testing. So between October and now, I don’t know how much one is donating over the other. However, under the UN World Food Program, the United States is pretty much responsible for over half the humanitarian aid put out to North Korea. China and South Korea operate outside of that. Between 1995 and late 2006, we alone gave over $1.1 Billion with 60% of that as food aid and the other 40% as energy aid with the hope the North Koreans’ keep their promise of not continuing their nuclear program of dubious intentions. South Korea’s contributions are more from private donations. Odds are quite possible we’re out-contributing South Korea.
Not to mention more South Koreans eat American grown rice instead of Korean grown rice because their domestic rice is so labor intensive and limted that it’s too expensive to buy for most people. Domestic rice there is a premium. They have a love hate relationship with our rice because they need it, but they hate the fact that it’s cheaper than theirs. When it comes to agriculture, the United States is pretty much top dog.
I think if the intel Bush and Congress saw wasn’t crippled by the previous administration’s policies (whether intentional or not), then there would be a lot less belly aching over poor intel and trying to pin “lying” strictly onto Bush. If you’re going to be fair and impartial, at least say that Bush AND Congress lied since they all came to the same conclusions looking at the same intel.
Forgot to mention the rice South Korea is donating to North Korea probably comes from us anyways since it is the cheaper rice. But South Korea bought and paid for it so I guess we don’t get any credit for that.
7 Well, okay, congress is certainly indefensible. So far as I know they have never admitted to a mistake of any kind. Look at their continuing declaration in the face of compelling evidence that marijuana has no useful medical properties. Their continuing refusal to admit that the drug war and black markets their laws created were a total crock from the git-go, good only for draining civil liberties. The judges and high-level bureaucrats they obediently confirm. Indefensible.
But you do know, don’t you, that Bush & Co. disregarded and distorted intel in order to get the war they wanted, and in the process lied to congress repeatedly?
Okay, you can’t blame the Bushies for congress being either too stupid or too dishonest, or both, to fulfill their constitutional duty and insist that going to war requires due diligence. They’re too busy pandering to corporations to carry out such responsibilities, I guess.
Did somebody say “no confidence”? Oh hell yes. It’s way past time.
9. I’ll be damned! You mean to tell me that Bush lied to Congress?!?!?!?!?! And repeatedly? What exactly was distorted?
If Congress had access to everything Bush had, how was it so easy for him to distort the truth? They made the same conclusions. Are you saying that Bush isn’t as dumb as many Libs make him out to be to have duped the whole Congress?!?!?!?!? 🙂
But you don’t want to reward Bush with any intellect, so it sounds like you’re telling me all of Congress is too stupid, self-righteous, dishonest, and bought to tell the truth either. If so, how do you impeach the legislative branch and the presidency at the same time?
From what I see Congress has had a change of heart and tried washing themselves of responsibility because they think it’s politically good to do so.
If what you say is the 100% objective truth, it sounds pretty impeachable to me given how you’ve spelled it out. Sounds like an open and shut case here. That is unless there’s too many democrats fearing their names are going to be dragged into impeachment…. hmmm, if it were only so easy to just pin it on one person they would have done it by now, no?
The Dems last time I checked were 100% behind Bush until Howard Dean did his big Bush “lied” monologue and he pulled ahead in the Democratic primaries… when that happened, the whole game changed.
He’s a more humorous take on it: http://brain-terminal.com/posts/2004/03/24/pin-the-tale-on-the-donkeys
Heading out for the weekend. But I leave you with some more interesting tid bits of stuff concerning “Quantum Democrats”… if you understand a little of Quantum Physics, you’ll appreciate and maybe laugh about this (or not):
http://brain-terminal.com/posts/2004/04/08/quantum-democrats
This will hopefully shed some light on the “lies”.
It’s been quite obvious since at least 2002, and it probably really started in 2000, that this administration has a Jobs’ like distortion field, but the only ones they are actually fooling are themselves.
#10 – I didn’t say congress was bright. As JCD once said, any 535 geeks in a room would be collectively smarter than congress. Which doesn’t change the fact that the Bushies filtered readily available intel through their neocon distortion field (as #12 put it), feeding intentionally twisted information (read: lies) to congress in order to get their war.
And that, dear Guyver, was a criminal act. Just as blowing the cover of an active CIA agent was a criminal act. And any number of other criminal acts this administration has committed. Your agitated sneers can’t change the reality of what that crew has done to the U.S.
The stupidity or gullibility or opportunism or dishonesty of congress (and of certain prominent Democrat and Republicrat presidential candidates) is a different question. Sheesh.
Here’s reality dose for you: http://willful-ignorance.com/
#10, Guyver,
If Congress had access to everything Bush had, how was it so easy for him to distort the truth?
Simple fact, Congress does not have the same access to information that Bush has. Even the Committee Chairmen don’t have all the intelligence that Bush has. In case you didn’t know, the Administration can even withhold information from Congress in certain cases.
So it is true, Congress was lied to by Bush.
From what I see Congress has had a change of heart and tried washing themselves of responsibility because they think it’s politically good to do so.
No, the reins of power changed to the Democrats. The PEOPLE said they want change. The People said they don’t want a surge. The PEOPLE said they want out of Iraq. The PEOPLE said they want New Orleans fixed. The PEOPLE said they want the morally and ethically corrupt Republicans out of power.
(#7) Between 1995 and late 2006, we alone gave over $1.1 Billion
I thought Bush cut off aid to North Korea in 2002 as a pressure tactic when NK tested a medium range missile.
Currently China supplies about half and South Korea supplies more then a third of all humanitarian food supplies..
12. If so, it’s surprising none of you guys cite the distortion from the other side. Reading the “Quantum Democrat” article may shed some light on that. Here’s an excerpt for you “During the Clinton Administration, Democrats said Saddam Hussein had such weapons. They were reading the same intelligence reports that President Bush relied upon. But that didn’t stop people like Democratic Senator Ted Kennedy from accusing President Bush of lying and saying he “concocted the war in Iraq from Texas”. (Kennedy, it should be noted, once said, “We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction.”) To date, I have never gotten an answer to this question: if President Bush concocted all the “lies” about Saddams’s weapons, then how did he manage to — years before he came into office — convince so many Clinton Administration officials that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction?”
13. I have yet to hear any Democrat explicitly state they received filtered and consciously distorted info from the Bushies.
Now that you’ve concluded the Bushies have indeed done “criminal” acts, why is it the Congress hasn’t impeached Bush over these crimes?
As for the willful ignorance blog, it’s a shame so many Americans are poor spellers. I see it from all walks of life and all political spectrums. Hopefully the blog isn’t implying that bad spellers represent the right no more than a video clip I saw where a bunch of lefties were protesting Bush’s choice in justices in which a female told someone she wished their mother or daughter got raped.
14. The administration CAN but they didn’t withhold info. No one from the Democrats I’ve heard has said information was withheld. If so, why all the reluctance about impeachment? Seems like an open shut case and pretty black and white. If the PEOPLE voted on this, why isn’t the congress acting on doing an impeachment? If you’re so convinced he criminally distored the truth and lied to Congress why no impeachment?
The PEOPLE certainly voted in the case of Lieberman in which that victory was demonstrative of how a liberal Democrat who happens to share the same stance on national defense was ousted from his partiy’s primaries…. an example of the left eating one of their own? In either case, now that the rein of power lies with the Democrats, hopefully you guys will put the money where your mouth is and impeach Bush and stop making comments about supporting the troops but choking the military’s role there. Hopefully they will practice what they preach.
NK is testing long range missles and we have reason to be concerned irregardless of who’s in office. Bush did the right thing in this matter although he did not cut off humanitarian aid. Bush & South Korea both dramatically reduced their country’s humanitarian aid to North Korea. Irregardless, the amount South Korea has donated (which in the past was mostly in the form of fertilizers) probably runs close with the U.S. Taking a step back, and humoring the prospect that S. Korea is donating more food than the U.S.,the U.S.’s withdrawl of humanitarian aid would be quite significant. South Korea should be donating more than the U.S. given that half of their family members are across the border and starving. But irregardless, the U.S. historyically donates more food to any given country than any other country in the world. Whether or not you want to split hairs over how much more S. Korea may or may not donate vs. the U.S.
In spite of all this, it’s amazing that the one country who is most influential to North Korea’s prosperity has no interest in teaching them “how to fish” but would rather “give them a fish” so that they can eat just for today.