BMW’s Hydrogen fuelled Internal Combustion Engine
Al EU reports progress on low-polluting hydrogen engines – English.People.com.cn:
The European Union (EU) on Tuesday reported progress on the development of a new type of hydrogen-fueled engines.
Researchers from Germany, Sweden, France and Austria, working together within an EU-funded research project and with U.S. partners, have developed a new type of hydrogen technology that will lead to hydrogen-fed engines, said the European Commission, the EU’s executive body.
These hydrogen-fed engines offer clear advantages over current generation engines and promise to compete with other propulsion systems in terms of performance and cost, said the commission.
You can also read more information on this topic here.
Previous and more skeptical analysis here on Dvorak Uncensored
on the hydrogen economy
Hot Air?
Dvorak drives a hydrogen car
In other news…
The US government (US) on Wednesday reported progress on an “impulse bomb” that can wipe out a city population without destroying a single building. This was accomplished slightly ahead of the 1 trillion dollar budget allocated.
Hey Dallas, that would be a neutron bomb, first set off back in 62
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutron_bomb
Good. Now test them by sticking them in Surburbans instead of sub-compacts.
#3
Had you bothered to read the two references given, you would have discovered that:
a. Neither made any mention of sub-compacts.
b. Reference was made to “engines for passenger cars as well as for city buses”.
I’m always interested in the opinions of others, whether I agree with them or not, but I prefer them to be informed opinions.
The main problem with Hydrogen powered cars is getting the Hydrogen to it. They need to come up with a cheap, clean and safe way to make and store the Hydrogen is the main sticking point.
#4 – you made my point for me. OK, I exagerrated with the sub-compact reference because that’s what the green freaks always gravitate toward – “small” cars.
b. Reference was made to “engines for passenger cars as well as for city buses”. – Add my implied “small” to the cars and what do you have? Mass transit and small cars, both of which lead to unnacceptably crappy standard of living.
I want a world where the average American is driving a 3000lb or larger vehicle a minimum of 30 mi. each way to/from work. Low density urban sprawl is a GOOD thing – hence, my original comment.
Remember, God invented SUVs because he expected us to all drive them.
#6, I thought man invented SUV and sports cars to compensate for small dicks 😉
I have been following this technology for years and in this case it looks as if there is nothing new here. The technology is still not ready for prime-time and Jetfire is right. Storage is still the issue (and heat and fuel cell membrane life and the horrible noise these things make at full throttle). The 10,000 psi tanks in current use still do not hold enough hydrogen. And when one of these pressure bombs ruptures in an inevitable accident the same reporters pushing hydrogen will condemn it. This technology is designed to attract R&D money! For that it is a winner.
The question is: How can they turn it into a success without killing it with obscenely high license fees?
How are they going to generate the hydrogen cheaply?
If nothing else, we ought to get better explosions in crashes with hydrogen. Heck, the majority of accidents right now don’t even result in explosions.
#3 – TheGlobalWarmer
“Good. Now test them by sticking them in Surburbans instead of sub-compacts.”
BMW puts theirs in 7-series bodies, the biggest they make…
#6 –
“…that’s what the green freaks always gravitate toward – “small” cars.”
Really? Is that so? The latest state-of-the-art hybrid, out later this year, happens to be one of the most luxurious cars ever built.
#11 – MikeN
“How are they going to generate the hydrogen cheaply?”
Oh, we might have a couple gallons of seawater out back. Hafta look, though…
– – – – – – – –
Re that safety thing: Call me a chickenshit if you like, but I personally don’t think I wanna be within a mile of a hydrogen fueling station while Cletus is filling up.
#6 “Remember, God invented SUVs because he expected us to all drive them.”
Nonsense. God drives a full sized Plymouth……
“In his Fury, God drove Adam and Eve from the Garden….
#13 — Hydrogen is not actually as explosive as gasoline (unless you are talking about a nuclear fusion reaction). Gasoline (a blend of various combustible hydrocarbons) has the most energy you can concentrate in a liquid short of a raw explosive such as nitroglycerine. That’s pretty much why gasoline is used in the first place. Even when the Hindenburg caught on fire it kind of just burned. If that was gasoline it would have exploded. I wonder if one of the 10,000 psi tanks exploding would even ignite. I think the blast would come mostly from the pressure of the tank. It would be fun to test. Another problem seldom discussed with hydrogen is the fact that it leaks out of everything constantly. Big industrial tanks of hydrogen are often on fire and nobody knows it. The stuff leeches through the steel walls and the steel forms a wick and a mild blue flame starts burning but cannot be seen. The tank heats up and it gets worse until they put it out. The stuff is impossible.
#14 – I stand corrected!!! 😉
“Even when the Hindenburg caught on fire it kind of just burned. If that was gasoline it would have exploded.”
There you go kids its your choice, go quickly in a fast explosion or barbecue to death in a slow burning hydrogen gas fire. Yay!
#13 “Oh, we might have a couple gallons of seawater out back. Hafta look, though…”
The problem is the energy and cost it takes to convert that seawater to Hydrogen. The amount of Energy it takes to separate the Hydrogen is almost a wash. So you end up robbing Peter to pay Paul. Now if we went to the Moon and brought back a Shuttle load of H3 then that could almost pay for itself.
#15 Actually it depends which form the Gasoline is in liquid form it’s very stable but when in gaseous form and with the right air mixture it’s very explosive. Not hitting the right gas to air mixture gasoline will most likely burn like the Hydrogen but for long since. But like you said the gasoline will have more energy per volume, which is one reason to compress the Hydrogen.
A very informative page on the pros and cons of hydrogen can be found at:
http://fuelcellsworks.com/JustthebasicsonHydrogen.html
Some interesting excerpts:
“hydrogen has the highest energy content per unit weight of any known fuel”
“If we converted the current U.S. light-duty fleet (some 230 million vehicles) to fuel cell vehicles we would need about 310 billion gallons of water per year … Interestingly enough, the refinery industry uses about 300 billion gallons of water a year to produce gasoline”
Although the Hindenburg got hydrogen a bad name, it apparently was not mainly responsible for the accident:
“As for the Hindenburg, a recent study found the paint used on the blimp’s skin was to blame since it contained the same component as rocket fuel. An electrical discharge ignited the skin. While the hydrogen gas used to float the blimp did ignite, it burned upward and away from the people on board and actually provided a slow, safe descent for those who stayed on board.”
“In Europe, where gasoline is already 3 to 5 times higher than the U.S. prices, hydrogen represents a cost-competitive fuel and with the higher efficiency of fuel cell vehicles, a strong possibility as an alternative fuel”
Of course storage is still the main problem and requires a good deal of on-going research.
However, consider the possible objections to the Wright brothers’ new flying machine in 1903. This thing has no future, because:
a. It is too small. There is no room for passengers or freight
b. It can only fly a few hundred yards
c. There is no infrastructure to support take-off, landing or refueling
d. It is too unstable and difficult to control
e. It’s draughty!
f. etc., etc.
Had we listened to the nay-sayers then, we wouldn’t be flying around in 747s today (whether PSA or not, John).
I’m on the side of those who are at least trying to find solutions to the renewable energy problem, rather than those sitting around contemplating their navel and thinking up all the reasons why this or that cannot possibly work. Come on – the USA has always been a “can do” nation.
#20 – Sagrilarus
“Where does Hydrogen come from? From oil of course!”
That’s interesting news, to say the least.
After that proud exhibition of Fact-Free Knowledge®™, I almost hate to mention the inconvenient datum that roughly 75% of the entire universe consists of elemental hydrogen.
But do carry on, this is most interesting…
You can all believe what you want. Yes hydrogen has a lot of energy “per unit weight of any known fuel.” Packs a lot of punch per it’s weight that borders on zero..which is about the amount of energy it has too. Nice semantic trickery. And yes you can compress it, but at 10,000 psi they still cannot compress it enough to meet their need for 300 miles or so per tank. They could double the number of tanks. There is always some way to get this to work. BUT WHY?
How about using less energy in the first place. Post #20 is right. You do not need to have 400 hp to sit in endless traffic jams on the 405.