I’ve been a bad girl!
Deutsche Presse – Feb 23, 2007:
A California lawmaker has withdrawn the no- spanking bill she proposed in the state legislature after failing to muster enough votes to pass the controversial measure, the San Jose Mercury News reported Friday.
Assemblywoman Sally Lieber had hoped to pass a law that would have criminalized spanking young children, but bowed to opposition from fellow lawmakers who worried it made the state legislature look like it was meddling with families and child rearing.
‘The votes simply were not there,’ Lieber said.
But unwilling to admit defeat, Lieber has instead introduced a watered-down bill that would prohibit other types of physical punishment, even as a swat on the behind would reman legal so long as it doesn’t cause serious injury.
We’ve been bad too. Teach us a lesson. A hard lesson!
Huzzah? lol SN whats that mean? I didn’t know that it was the norm for spanking to be illegal at least at the parents discretion.
1. “Huzzah? lol SN whats that mean?”
I have no idea. John must have added it.
The day you start using violence against a family member, you’ve proven yourself not worthy of having a family.
Why would kindly Ms. Lieber think such a law is needed? California school administrators and teachers are so beaten down by suit-happy parents they’re afraid to use any sort of discipline at all, at least in the public schools my grandkids have attended. That lack of control has resulted in some non-religious-fanatic home schooling in my personal circle of family and friends.
Maybe she’s trying to bring some religious or other private school practices under control. Thinking here of stereotypical teaching nuns with switches and knuckle-banging rulers. But considering the cold eyes of some evangelicals I’ve known, and the private schools evangelicals run… maybe she knows something worth considering.
no nudity and porn ever
Jägermeister,
The day you use sweeping generalizations and mischaracterizations of issues is the day you prove that you’re not worthy of discussing politics. Of course, if that actually happened, there wouldn’t be much political talk at all. I mean, what fun is politic political discussion if it’s not polarized?
And for the record, “Huzzah” is a cheer similar to “hooray,” but somewhat more archaic.
As usual it this crap starts in California. The nanny state. I doubt that Ms. Lieber has any children or raised any children of her own. Ms says it all.
Making them go to church or sunday school is worse than spanking.
hahaha those pictures are so over the top.
John’s trying to get the site banned again so he can write another column about it. 🙂
I believe I heard this woman do an interview on NPR. At no point did she indicate issues with religious or private schools; it was a discussion strictly about parental rights and child abuse. Despite this, she seemed just a tad below what you might consider crank status. But that was my gut feeling. I don’t see a problem with spanking myself. Children should not be allowed to presume upon the authority of the parent until the child is able to defend itself in general – i.e., when the child is grown, out of the house and holds a job. And if correcting a presumptous child means spanking it, well, whack away.
I think the Ms. Leiber’s point was that parents, teachers, or any authority figure, should not be able to use any form a violence for any reason. And that seems presumptuous upon fundamental rights. Besides, how would you enforce such a thing? Given it’s public status had such a thing passed, can you imagine all the haughty children running around saying things like “you can’t touch me!”, and not only mean it, but be absolutely correct? The inmates would be running the asylum. I think we should arm every teacher with a wooden paddle (the wind-resistant kind!) Given a generation of this, the kids would grow up literally running the world.
Nice pics, by the way.
I think spanking kids is ok as long as you don’t enjoy doing it and they (the kid) don’t suffer any long-term harm. If it still hurts (really) in an hour it might have been a little hard…
#6
And your opinion on the subject is….
#11, #12
Ever considered talking to the child instead of physically abusing them? Kid’s fully understand that they’ve done wrong if you talk to them and remove some of their privileges.
With all those leather bars in California I’m not surprised at all.
14: I spanked two of my kids (out of four), exactly once. In both cases they did something dangerous, and I got their attention with a single swat. In both cases it worked, and they didn’t do that again.
I think you need to MYOB unless it turns into abuse, which is not the same as spanking someone very rarely.
#16
And I’m sure you mind your own business all the time… that’s why you’re on this site. Seriously… if you can’t correct your children through talk and non-violent punishment, then you suck as a parent.
Jägermeister, you’ve shown, many times, that you’re no fool. You usually come down on the side of fact and reason when the topic involves brainless ideologies, which is precisely why I’m calling you out on this one.
You’re being knowingly dishonest and deceptive when your arguments rely on the implicit and scientifically unsupported premise that corporal discipline equates with abuse. It’s straight outta the PC Ideologues’ Handbook and you cannot defend it except by citing crackpot pop-pseudopsychological überliberal ax-grinders that no one takes seriously except their cultish followers.
Children’s knowledge and reasoning abilities are, in many instances, inadequate for them to respond to verbal discipline. IOW, sometimes words just can’t get the point across, and a brief period of physical pain, entailing zero long-term emotional or physical trauma, is the only way of effecting the necessary modification in behavior. And this has been empirically proven literally billions of times, throughout history and across cultures.
Childen ≠ adults. Can’t reason everything out with them. Often idiotic and counterproductive to even try.
Discipline ≠ abuse. Quit parroting PC humbug and just admit that you personally don’t want to spank your kids; don’t try rationalizing left-wing Shariah law…
While I have never had to spank my daughter due to good child rearing practices, I have spanked my wife a few times.
Don
I see disciplinary spanking as a useful tool, to be used in rare occasions where you absolutely need to deliver an unambiguous message instantly to a young child who should know better. A four year old purposely slamming his younger sister’s fingers in the car door is one such occasion. It is generally not appropriate or effective for those younger than 1 or older than 6.
A single sharp swat should suffice. If it is delivered in anger then it is likely to be abusive.
#18
I’m voicing my opinion, and I know for a fact that you can raise great kids without spanking them. I don’t know if Dwight D. Eisenhower ever hit his kids, but this quote says a lot:
I can’t stop you from doing what you’re doing to your kids… but I’m sure they’ll remember it.
Take care.
#21 – Jägermeister
Nifty attempt at evasion there. I see that you slyly confound adults with children yet again.
However, Eisenhower (a) wasn’t referring to children, and; (b) was making a statement about leadership, not parental discipline.
All you can actually “know for a fact” in this matter is your personal experience, which, as I’m quite sure you already realize, cannot be universalized, particularly in light of the billions of non-disfunctional, non-resentful adults on Earth (including those personally testifying here! 🙂 who received corporal discipline in childhood and somehow managed to become something other than Idi Amin…
As far as kids “remembering it,” I should hope so; if the lesson to be imparted is not retained, the association between wrong action and undesirable consequences not learned, then it hasn’t served it’s purpose. Then, it would be abuse!!
#22
Parenting is showing leadership. To lead a child to become a grownup.
I assume you’ve got a child, and that you’ve spanked it (after all, you’re defending this approach of raising him/her). Did you ever try to talk to him/her? I mean, seriously… did you?
Hey, spanking works. I was spanked when I was young and let me tell you I deserved it. Then again I didnt have as much to be taken away. With the internet and video games it is much easier to remove fun as a punishment but hey, thats the parents call.