Hungary may legalize porn involving 14- to 17-year-olds for home use – USA Today – This is just sick and sad, to have a government consider this just makes me mad.
A bill modifying Hungary’s penal code could allow pornographic material involving 14- to 17-year-olds to be made and kept for personal use.
This is bad on so many levels
The Justice Ministry said the draft proposal, presented last month by Hungarian Justice Minister Jozsef Petretei, was in line with European Union norms which give members states the right to regulate the issue at national level.
But Opposition lawmakers attacked the proposal as “legalized pedophilia” and a family welfare group described it as “the waiting room of prostitution.”
Petretei said Monday that the proposal had taken into account the age in Hungary — 14 — at which consensual sexual relations are allowed.
“If we consider people 14 years of age to be mature enough to consent to sexual acts, then the chance to make picture recordings of this … can also be allowed,” Petretei told lawmakers in parliament.
A 14 year old can be very easily exploited and would not fully understand what is being done to them, age of consent is no excuse. In Mexico the age of consent is 12, following this kind of logic is quite frightening and should be stopped. Why is this even being considered?
While I agree with you on this, it’s a real bad idea. Odd things happen when the age of consent for sex is different from the age of child pornography.
There was a guy who was married to a 17 year old woman. He took pictures of her naked, the film developer called the cops, and the husband was arrested. It’s weird that we can have actual sex with someone but cannot take pictures of that someone.
Still, the law doesn’t have to make sense. Sometimes protecting children is more important than being logical.
Oh, bullshit.
How much more of a ‘cultural imperialist’ can you be, assuming – quite wrongly – that maturity v. age is some universal correlation, with Americans as the standard! Crikey!
The typical Hungarian 14-year-old is, and I know more than enough Hungarians personally to tell you, as mature as the typical 16-year-old American.
And while we’re at it, can the use of the word ‘pedophile.’ Pedophiles are sexually attracted to prepubescent children, not adolescents.
Your hysteria indicates a short-circuiting of your reasoning, Different cultures, different mores. Peasants in Mexico grow up sooner, they marry sooner, they have children sooner. How dare you try to impose your arrogant American self-assumed “superiority” on other cultures?
The Hungarians are, on average, brighter, more honest and less religious than most Americans. And despite your implication, they’re not only not a nation of “pedophiles”, they enjoy a considerably lower incidence of rapes, child molestation and other indicators of sexually obsessive & repressive culture – such as the US is known for.
So go take a sedative and lie down for a bit, maybe put a wet cloth on your forehead.
The 14-year-olds of Hungary are safer from sexual abuse and exploitation than 16-year-old Americans are.
Good grief! Here I am agreeing with L the G. He’s quite correct about abuse of the word “pedophile”.
Well said Lauren.
What concerns me is if this is legal there, what happens if you’re surfing the web and you come across one of these pictures? Now it’s in the cache of your browser, and in essence ON your computer, and being in a country where it IS illegal you’re now harboring felony material.
Sure, you delete your computer cache blah blah blah. But still, it’s on your computer for a short while. And as we saw with the case of the teacher that just got a “porn-bomb” in her class, the ludite court system won’t know the difference.
Lauren, maybe the lower incidence of rapes etc. is due to the fact the term has no meaning there. (as if we can trust figures from gov. sources anyways).
It seems like the moral high ground isn’t too far from the gutter. Here’s an ugly child porn case.
#2, you are deluding yourself in thinking that a 14 year old knows what their doing in regards to sex, meaning being capable to deal with the emotional and life changing consequences of having sex, with the possibilities of contracting STDs, having children or being exploited.
#8
Read your history. It used to be quite common for 13-15 year olds to get married, have kids and run their father’s business. American society has so pampered and coddled their children that to a great degree they are not maturing as fast as they once were required. People greatly underestimate the ability of children to mature. I have met some 30 year olds that were less mature than some 16 year olds with respect to sex.
Where exactly in #2’s response is anything about Europeans, Americans or anyone else for that matter being more sophisticated or advanced? The problem here is that you are using your cultural values to pass judgment on the Hungarians.
#8 – Gasparrini
“you are deluding yourself in thinking that a 14 year old knows what their doing in regards to sex, meaning being capable to deal with the emotional and life changing consequences of having sex, with the possibilities of contracting STDs, having children or being exploited.”
No, mon frere, I am simply not the product of a sexually repressed development. People are not punched out of some cookie cutter that cranks out identical personalities that develop at the exact same rate. Not only do people vary, but races, cultures and nationalities do too.
Americans have a long history of sexual oppression, from religious roots. This leads to shame, acting out, obsessive behaviors, and a virtual cornucopeia of sexual disfunctions that express themselves in American society at large in our prevalence of spousal abuse, rape, pedophilia, you-name-it. This sorry state of affairs was brought about by exactly the sort of moralizing you’re trying to push here.
It feels kind of silly, having to explain this to an adult, but here goes: Sex is normal. It is necessary to the continuance of our species. Societies that accept sexuality without the baggage of religious judgementalism have far fewer problems invoiving sex.
Your attitude is part of what causes the very thing you complain about. Hungarians, since that’s what this is about, are simply realists about sex. They accept it in ways that would horrify many prudish Americans like yourself. They discuss sex openly, even with family. They laugh at how Americans make this big shame-filled deal about something that is so obviously natural, normal, fulfilling and also fun.
Because their society is more accepting and less motivated by shame, they are therefore less prone to obsessive sexual behaviors, such as the promiscuity that is the prime factor in the spread of STDs.
Hungarians stay out of their neighbors’ business. You’re not gonna read about much gay-bashing in Budapest. The typical Hungarian is not as repressed as the typical American nor is he as sexually desperate and thereby predatory. That means that Hungarian adults don’t find immature people – adolescents – to be all that desirable sexually. There’s no “forbidden fruit” attraction at work. If you want to have sex with a 14-year-old, the collective outlook is, go ahead – but who wants sex with a kid, instead of an adult, that you have far more in common with? Them that’re interested sexually in adolescents, are usually other adolescents. As it should generally be. But their laws also respect that a 35-y-o and a 15-y-o might fall in love – and who else’s business is it?
Hungarian teens are one Hell of a lot more savvy and worldly-wise than you, exposed as you are to conformist, semi-illiterate American mallrats, can grasp. They grow up sooner and are more responsible. And that’s why they are given responsibility earlier. They can better handle it.
And as with those who try to get the message across to the “drug warriors” – that repressive laws only accentuate the behavior, not reduce it – it’s difficult to get it across to someone like yourself, programmed with typical American Puritan prudery and shame, combined with a boundless certainty that you alone are right and have all the answers and are ready to impose your proven highly counterproductive beliefs on everyone else, even those who are doing far better than you without them… and who have been doing so for a loooong time.
In recap, Americans have the rapes, the perversions, the diseases, in far greater numbers. And it’s basically because of the attitude – the one you offer us. You are the true cultural imperialist, all-knowing, ready to jam your dysfunctional attitudes down the throats of all those other cultures too obviously inferior to recognize that you alone, in your infinite wisdom, know how THEY should live.
You think exactly like a Muslim beiever in Sharia law. Same arrogance, same egocentism, same willingness to coerce others to believe what you do, even though what you believe doesn’t work!
Gasparrini – It’s the attitude that sex is a “life changing” event that’s the problem. It’s not. When it’s built up to be this totally big, taboo, never talked about, never mentioned thing, thats when it turns into people getting STD’s or pregnant or exploited. Sex is a natural, biological drive and function…it’s when we start throwing SO much weight on the thing that it gets messed up.
Also, don’t compare the 14 year olds here in America with 14 year olds around the world. They’re not all the same. Do we really have to explain that to you? It’s not that they’re superior or that they’re being “racists”. It’s different cultures and attitudes.
Come on…
#9 – Thomas
“People greatly underestimate the ability of children to mature. I have met some 30 year olds that were less mature than some 16 year olds with respect to sex.”
Thank you. Excellent point – I myself have met girls in their 20s that I would be utterly ashamed to touch, so incredibly naîve and immature they are.
“All X-year-olds are Y” – Talk about stereotyping!
I really find it quite funny that all of you deluded and deeply prejudiced people think that I’m from the U.S. just because I’m an editor on the blog. Must have really hit a nerve to elicit such a response. I find it quite sad that you guys find sex so easily dismissable to think nothing of it.
Empty words from emotionally empty people.
Sex can be ‘life changing’ just for the fact that it can create life. Are you telling me that having children is not a life changing event? You are so full of crap!
#10 Lauren the Ghoti,
Your explanation of human sexuality makes a lot of sense and seems very logical, but I must resist your words as I have been raised in America. I now feel shamed and dirty. Where’s my rosary.
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With all that being said. Pedophilia is an attraction to pre-pubescent children. Attraction to cute teenagers is an attraction to trouble — but is not pedophilia. It used to be called “getting married”, ’cause people in that age range married not fifty years ago, and frequently to people over 18.
And you’d have to imprison the planet if you actually found out what really goes on. Give it up. War on alchohol, war on (some) drugs, war on “terror”, and now the war on people under 18 having sex. Pick which will be victorious. Bonus if you guess these wars will lead to immense human misery far oustripping the “crimes”.
I wonder if we get to know why they got banned. I guess disagreeing with prude, semi-literate editors is against the posting rules?
With all that being said. Pedophilia is an attraction to pre-pubescent children. Attraction to cute teenagers is an attraction to trouble — but is not pedophilia. It used to be called “getting married”, ’cause people in that age range married not fifty years ago, and frequently to people over 18.
And you’d have to imprison the planet if you actually found out what really goes on. Give it up. War on alchohol, war on (some) drugs, war on “terror”, and now the war on people under 18 having sex. Pick which will be victorious. Bonus if you guess these wars will lead to decades of immense human misery far outripping the damage the ” “crimes” made. Legislation forbidding people from being people only makes the prison builders rich. And the culture, mad.
2, 10,
Get off your high horse…
First of all, your definition of paedophile is accurate, the rest of your post is conjecture. Just more smoke blowing out of your ass. Got proof? Probably not, you never do.
12,
So, by your logic, we need to have a new standard to measure sexual maturity? Well, unfortunately, the ONLY measure we have is age. Old enough to drink, vote, smoke is a pretty reasonable barometer for the age of consent. We KNOW that 15yr olds are boning 14yr olds. Standard and par for the course. But immature 14yrd old exploited by dirty old men like yourself are a shame. Now, you’ll say “oh, but 14yr olds are mature!”. Sure they are. When you have a daughter, send her my way when she’s fourteen. I’ll vid tape it for your viewing pleasure afterwards.
And please, STOP feigning intelligence with statements like “Mexicans marry younger” and “Hungarians are smarter”. Shitting on a plate and calling it your brains only fools yourself. POVERTY is what causes children to have to work, marry and slave younger, not desire. You’re telling me that if you took all the 14yr olds in a poverty struck place like a village in Hungary and give them two choices, an adult life or a life of youthful pleasure (you know, toys, hanging out, playing, school – stuff you’ve never done), they would choose to work hard and marry young? Fool.
Lauren the Fish,
Maybe you can argue she was old enough to be romanced by the soldier?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6384781.stm
hm. The Age of consent is 14 in Canada too. Also in France. But I suppose the prudes Gasparinni and Named would like to make this 21. I also suspect they approve of the fact that in the USA the federal mandate is that 18 is the age of consent and it is actually illegal for a US citizen to leave the country and have sex with anyone under 18 no matter what the local law says. This is odd since some states have the age of consent at 16. AND of course everyone wants to make this 18.
ALLthis BS has more to do with finding more and more ways of making everything illegal even legitimate sex. Calling sex with a 14 year old PEDOPHILIA even when it is legal is part of this scheme to criminalize everything as a form of fascism and control. Is it Gasparinni? Or Mussolini doing the posts here? This blogs tends towards libertarianism but here we have the same old religious right rearing up and telling what is right and wrong.
“People greatly underestimate the ability of children to mature. I have met some 30 year olds that were less mature than some 16 year olds with respect to sex.”
And from the pulpit they instructed me on proper sexual behavior.
#22, Charlie,
The age of consent in most countries are holdovers from when children actually married at that age. That doesn’t make it any more right then slavery or burning at the stake. A 14 yr old is still a child, physically, emotionally, and mentally, and I don’t care what country you are from. And just because someone else does it doesn’t mean we should do it.
As for making all sex illegal, nothing could be further from the truth. While rape is as illegal as it should be, consensual sex restrictions have been repeatedly struck down. All one need do is look at the three yr old Supreme Court case allowing consensual homosexual sex. Other laws prohibiting inter-racial sex, sodomy, and masturbation have all been removed from the books or declared illegal. Child sex is the one area that has more strictly enforced.
As for d/l pictures of children that are legal in their country but illegal here? Well, the same as having drugs that are legal elsewhere but illegal here. Don’t get caught.
22,
The Criminal Code does not now criminalize consensual sexual activity with or between persons 14 or over, unless it takes place in a relationship of trust or dependency, in which case sexual activity with persons over 14 but under 18 can constitute an offence, notwithstanding their consent. Even consensual activity with those under 14 but over 12 may not be an offence if the accused is under 16 and less than two years older than the complainant. The exception, of course, is anal intercourse, to which unmarried persons under 18 cannot legally consent, although both the Ontario Court of Appeal(3) and the Quebec Court of Appeal(4) have struck down the relevant section of the Criminal Code.
So, when you’re 16, and you’re banging 14 year old Mary Rottencrotch, no one is going to complain. But DON’T tell me that you approve of 40 year old banging your 14 year old daughter cause they love each other. If you do, send me your 14yr old daughter when she’s ready. I’ll consent to it.
According to the Bible, if a man rapes a virgin girl who is not engaged to another man, his only punishment is to pay the girl’s father 50 shekels of silver, and he must marry the girl for life.
Back then, it wasn’t about age — it was all about property, money, and honor. The girl was considered property that was purchased as a wife for money, preserving everyone’s honor. How much does a virgin cost in other countries according to God’s holy law? We need to establish international exchange rates in virgin currency.
Can I hear a few Bibles thump in outrage over this? 😉
#25
Again, you are applying your set of values to another culture. It doesn’t matter if I or you would not want my 14 yr old daughter banging a 40 yr old, what matters is whether Hungarians care. The age of consent is not a universal truth or rule. America and even Western Europe do not the whole world make. You remind me of the Christians that tried to convert the natives of various lands they colonized and were aghast that the women walked around without tops.
27,
No, I’m NOT trying to push my morality on others. In fact, I hardly have any. BUT, what I will say is that there WAS a time when 14 year olds and younger were married. When you lived to be 30 years and died of consumption, well, you gotta make hay when the sun is out. Now, fortunately, we DO NOT have to rush children into an adult role. No. Now they can develop to maturity without 40 year old landowners looking for the next lovely girl just starting puberty. You can go to backwater villages and get your 9 year old brides. Of course, you’ll get polio, tuberculosis, leprosy and other diseases that are found only in such places. And enjoy it there. I’m glad in the West we have the opportunity to send our children to school and playtime and wonderful childish things like that RATHER than offer them to the rich landowners to try and ensure they can eke out a living.
#18 – David
You ever see the fabulous BBC trilogy House of Cards, with the great, recently departed Sir Ian Richardson as Francis Urqhuart?
He had this incomparably droll response to questions he declined to answer: “You might say that; I couldn’t possibly comment.” So good, Tony Blair has used it himself…
So, in response to your speculation, all I can say is, “You might say that; I couldn’t possibly comment.”
#s 19,22,26 – catbeller, charlie rose, Gary Marks
I’m glad that clear, mature, independent thought prevails in this thread –
#27 – Thomas
Hear, hear. Ain’t ethnocentrism wunnerful?
and #23 – qsabe
A droll and succinct observation. Kudos.
Cripes.