Damnit Hoppie says:

Its quite simple.

No one forces you to use iTunes.

If you don’t OWN an iPod. . . you have no reason to be in iTunes. Go elsewhere.

Named says:

28,

You see as far as your nose. You don’t see the big picture, and therefore your arguments are so small minded they’re pointless. Everyone knows how to burn and rip… But why should we have to do that when TECHNICALLY any bit and byte can be transferred electronically. How else do you download your porn movies to your PC? You think the legal / technical layers on top of your 1 and 0 are really that special? Nope.

31,

I’ll give you the game console, yes. But media services as in Movies and Music are only locked into vertical markets thanks to the DMCA. Technically, there are no roadblocks to time-shifting, place-shifting, device-shifting or the rest. Only LEGAL ones. A legal framework keeps the market vertical, and the legal framework is what is being disputed… Not Apple’s desire to make cash hand over fist. Power to them. But LEGALLY, it is a different issue entirely.

Apple always tries to convert users to their platform. Through advertising, styling, memes… whatever. Jobs famously forced Disney to change to Macs after his Pixar deal. Why? Cause he thinks it the bee’s knees and he can make super more amounts of cash.
Again, when has the iPod + iTunes ever been marketed as anything other than a closed system? When they say the FairPlay licensing terms allow you to transfer your purchased songs to an unlimited number of iPods, they mean iPods.
Yep. True enough. But people are stoopid, and THEY need the protection of the government, not corps flush with cash and millions of lawyers waiting on retainer…

33, If you want an exclusive on iTMS on a portable device, then YES, you need an iPod and you need iTMS. Or you could steal it. So, it’s not so simple.

Granted, this whole topic is stupid. All vertically integrated companies die. It only takes time and a phase shift. Just ask Sun. Or Apple circa 1990. Or IBM. Or DEC. Or… you can fill in your choice.

lou says:

#36: For pretty much the entire history of the human race, people would buy things that would only work with one other thing, and not complain.

– you buy a carbeurator for your Camaro, you did not have expectations that you can use it on your Cadilac.
– you buy a book in a bookstore, and completey understand that the publisher does not owe you a PDF version of it.
– you bought an 8 track in the 70’s with no expectation that the when a new medium came along (ie: CD’s) that you would be able to transfer your music

Summary: This concept of everything you buy being “fungible” to every new use, platform, whatever, is something completely new to the world, and its total BS that the smarties on this board have always held those expectations.

Someday, and I mean this seriously, a device will be able to scan a persons brain and make a neuron for artificial/logical neuron copy onto a computer. At that point, I can wait for the outcry by the commies for digital rights management, and no reverse engineering.

Just a matter of time, my friends.

Steve S says:

Is this a viable, fairly easy to use solution for converting your iTunes songs to MP3 so you can play them in any player?

http://www.soundtaxi.info/english/index.php?add=robo

Steve

Mike Voice says:

34 Currently, there are artists on the iTMS that DO NOT require or use DRM themselves, but Apple applies it nonetheless. Why? Any Nettwerk music label artist has DRM free music on eMusic, but you have to have DRM from the iTMS to buy the same music.

Interesting.

I wasn’t aware of that.

But then, I fit the “average” category of iPod owner’s – those who have only bought about 2-CDs worth of singles from iTMS.

Slappy says:

#36 It is not your music, nor is it apples music.

Mr. Fusion says:

#38, And I think all of us here are a little tired of you making fun of our moms…
Comment by OhForTheLoveOf — 1/25/2007 @ 3:13 pm

Our elderly fathers too.

Lauren the Ghoti says:

#38 – OFTLO

“You didn’t disintegrate anything.”

Why, of course I did. I proved that TheGlobalWarmer’s allegations were completely incorrect, erroneous, untrue-to-fact and flat-out wrong. You can do whatever you want with the music on your CDs, put them on any device you choose. Claim: disintegrated.

I also proved that his whine that the process of converting iTMS songs from AAC(Protected) format to unprotected MP3 is ridiculously easy for anyone who knows how to click a mouse button and insert a CD, which includes every person who knows enough to get to DU and post a comment. Absolutely zero techncal knowledge is required. Claim: disintegrated, vaporized, sent to the Phantom Zone.

“All you really did was demonstrate the remarkable degree of contempt that techno-elitists have for neophytes.”

Totally and utterly wrong. There is a bright line which divides technical neophytes (which every single expert started out as) from lazy fools. I have taught computer-ignorant users since 1980. No one, including me, was born knowing about computers, we all had to learn it. If you want the things that a computer can do, you have to make the effort to at least learn some very basic, very simple concepts and actions. If you refuse to learn and expect it all to be done for you, then you have rightfully earned the contempt of everyone who HAS taken the time to learn.

Present-day America is unfortunately rife with the sort of dolt who whines about anything more complicated than a pencil. Millions of dullards who hate learning and expect everything to be done for them.

They are intrigued and enthused over all the cool things that modern electronics can do – but they idiotically think that using it should require no effort or knowledge on behalf of the user.

Imagine that a major auto manufacturer has introduced a car that can read your mind and automatically take you quickly and safely to the destination you’re thinking of. All you have to do is open the door, get in, sit down, and press the only control in the entire vehicle – a huge red button marked “TAKE ME TO MY DESTINATION” – and it takes you there.

A sizable number of American idiots (and some number of Eurobozos as well, to be fair) would immediately commence whining: “I don’t know how to work it,” “What does that big button that says “TAKE ME TO MY DESTINATION” do?” and the clincher, “Why do they make ME do all the work? How come I hafta become an automotive engineer just to go somewhere? Why can’t they make one with the button already pressed? Why do those techno-elitists have to make everything so complicated?”

“Its a shame that the high tech consumer electronics industries have for years shown absolutely nothing but contempt for non-technical users. It’s also rather hypocritical on a site like this.”

Rot. Humbug and buncombe. Nonsense.

The problem lies with “consumers” who think like you. You expect science-fiction miracles. You expect inanimate objects to somehow know what you want them to do. You think, quite idiotically, that designers can somehow create devices to do incredibly complex things that require no effort whatsoever on the part of the user.

They try as hard as they can (I’m talking about the competent ones; I’m not saying there aren’t user-unfriendly devices out there, but even the very best, state-of-the-art machines that feature everything we know about man-machine interfacing perfectly executed, come in for whining and griping from mentally lazy clots who can’t be bothered to read the manual or even watch the instructional video included. They do everything they can to make the user happy, they explain everything, step-by-step, with illustrations, in simple, plain English plus 3 to 8 other languages – but a certain percentage of buyers are simply too goddamn lazy and stupid to avail themselves of the information.

OOO-ooo, I don’t like to read. OOO-ooo, I don’t have time. OOO-ooo, why should I have to learn anything? Learning is for nerds and “techies.” OOO-ooo, learning is bor-ring.

There’s no free lunch, people. You have to do your part. Designers are not magicians nor are they mind readers. They don’t have contempt for the people who buy their products (except for Microsoft – and they have good reason to. Nyuk-nyuk).

Contempt is, like respect, earned. Not knowing how to operate unfamiliar hardware or software is perfectly OK – if you’re willing to pay attention and invest just a little bit of time and thought, you can take advantage of all the electronic wonders of the Age. And you will be respected for it.

Pissing and moaning about how it takes superhuman genius and years of grueling training to simply click on one fucking button, insert a CD and click on the same button again is deserving of nothing but contempt.

The only person I can think of offhand who is sane and over 8 years old who cannot follow the procedure I described is Stephen Hawking.

The remainder who maintain that it’s too hard for them are lazy morons. The same people who watch the clock-timer on their VCRs blink “12:00” for years because they whine that it takes a video engineer to set the clock, which has 3 buttons cryptically labeled with the indecypherable technical jargon “CLOCK SET,” “HR” and “MIN.” And God forbid they should actually break down and look at the manual, written and illustrated to be clearly and easily understood by anyone with 6th-grade reading ability! They’ll spend uncountable hours of frustration and anger and never use 90% of the cool features they wanted and already paid for – because 20 minutes to read the manual up-front is too lmuch to ask! Just blame the designers!

In any case, your story has grown tiresome.

[/rant]

—–

#38 & 45 –

OFTLO & Fusion: Let me quote my childhood hero, Eddie Haskell:
“Gee, that’s sure a nice iPod, Mrs. Cleaver.”

Named says:

48,

I find the best way to deal with the Fish is in kind. It only requires character attacks. It’s simple and fun! Watch what I say next.

47, The only thing you proved is that you are a psychotic, angry, fucked up, crack addicted, ass-selling, commoner hating loser. Yes, you don’t have any grasp of reality as we can see it from your last post. We know that you think that your Genius is unmatched (hence your choice of name), your way of solving problems is always the best, most simple, effective and world problem solving. And that’s just great. One day, when you wake up with your crack pipe empty, your dealer pounding your ass and you railing against the injustice that the morons around you have put you in such a situation that you have to sell your ass for more crack just to get away from the pain and suffering of being a modern genius in a world of luddites…. you just might… MIGHT get it.

Keep looking in the mirror. It has all your answers. You couldn’t find an answer anywhere else if they were labeled FREE CRACK. Oh, and Steven Hawking doesn’t NEED to press the burn button. He has a woman that can do it for him. You don’t even have a pet that would do so for you. Wanker.

48. See? Effortless AND fun. And I don’t even have to read his reply! I can just do another character hit job. S/he likes to play that way. But I did love your point about him being the Simpson’s Comic Book guy. KLASSIC!

44. Sorry about that. With so many words flashing around, I got my 1 and 0 mixed up. But I WAS looking for your commentary…

Lauren the Ghoti says:

#48 – OFTLO

Worst comeback ever.

Tap dance around all you like, be my guest. Perhaps by doing so you may distract some gullible soul or another into failing to notice that you have not answered and obviously can not answer this simple question:

What is so hard about download, burn, rip?

Why do you claim that inserting a disc and clicking one button two times is (a) too difficult to learn or (b) too difficult to do? Show us you are not (a) incredibly dense, or (b) incredibly lazy.

Why, exactly, are you incapable of putting a blank disc into the optical drive? I’m sorry, there I go again, using those obscure terms that only “techies” can possibly understand. Did I say ‘optical drive? I meant to say ‘that little drink-holder dealie that sticks out from the front of your computer sometimes.’ There. That better? Understand yet? Oops, did I say ‘computer’? I forgot, it’s what “techies” call a computer; your type knows it better as your “hard disk.”

You need six weeks of night school to learn how to do this? Is this what you expect us to believe? You manage somehow to reach DU, read the entries, and respond with comments, yet putting a CD into a drive drawer is too difficult for you – presumably because you’ve never done it before! Ya. Of course it is. And me? I’m Marie of Roumania.

Or is the insurmountable difficulty, your “roadblock,” in clicking on an onscreen button? I mean, the iTunes interface is so dense and layered, what with all those mysterious and cryptic icons and buttons and obscure technical terms you’ve never even heard of. One fucking button to click, all by its lonesome up there in the corner, clearly labeled “BURN DISC.” How can someone who’s “been in this game as long as I have” be expected to be understand that? You maybe need to look up the definition of the word “burn” or “disc” in a technical dictionary?

Or is it that you can’t find that one solitary button? Put a three-year old child in front of the screen. The button I’m talking about will be the first thing the child points to.

Oh, you say, you can do all that backbreaking, time-consuming, brain-numbing “techie” stuff, so far, though it’s strained your abilities to the breaking point. You just don’t know what to do after that, right? Is it your broken finger prevents you from pushing the drawer closed, or is your now severly overtaxed mind beyond remembering how? Is that it? Too much for any mere mortal to remember how to do?

Whatzzat you say? You got it closed? WoW, d00d! Now, think carefully! What do you do now? Sweating bullets, are you? Ready to stroke out yet? Shall we call EMS? Well, whatever you do, don’t look at the goddamn screen, because you just might accidentally notice that same fucking button you just clicked before, except it’s now labeled “IMPORT.”

OH MY GOD! WHAT DO I DO NOW???

This is the scenario you expect us to believe. Too much physical labor. Too much arcane technical knowledge needed. Too much time.

My hairy yellow ass.

Which one of those – or two – or is it all three? – is beyond you?

As I said, little kids have no problem doing it. Old geezers have no problem doing it. And they, contrary to your bizarre and ludicrous contention, are not “techies.”

So, only one of three things is possible at this point; you are either (a) stupid beyond belief, (b) lazy beyond belief, or, (c) both.

So your solution is, go hire Lionel Hutz to sue Apple, to get Big Brother to step in and force those elitist slave-drivers to make it EASIER, because it’s SO HARD TO DO! Poor baby! Uncle Sam’ll make those mean men simplify it, so you don’t have to do anything at all! Maybe if you succeed, every Mac will come with a guy who’ll put the disc in the drink-holder dealie for you! He’ll even go buy the discs!

You, and those like you, are perfect examples of why Americans are held in such contempt – not by “elitists” (the epithet arrogant bozos use to attempt to denigrate those who, unlike themselves, actually possess a functioning brain cell), but by normal, thoughtful, self-reliant adults.

And you, in your blatantly obvious inability to respond to the points raised and attempts to divert attention from said inability to respond by switching to ad hominem, have made it all too obvious that I am right…

Named says:

52,

It was quite easy actually. Dickwad crackheads like yourself are all the same. So, keep getting banged by your dealer and let your ass disintegrate into nothingness like your brain. Have fun on the way down, and don’t come back, crack whore.

50, Hey, I use my name here…

OhForTheLoveOf – I tell you, the BEST thing is attacking Lauren. Try it sometime. Oh, and for fun… Guess who made this comment about greed, and has totally reversed his role for Apple.
When it comes to this, or any other scenario which pits the common interests of the human species against the unquenchable lust for more money, it behooves one to always remember that greed is not rational, and therefore not amenable to reason.

OhForTheLoveOf says:

#51 – Tap dance around all you like, be my guest. Perhaps by doing so you may distract some gullible soul or another into failing to notice that you have not answered and obviously can not answer this simple question:

What is so hard about download, burn, rip?

Riddle me this…

When did I ever say it was hard?

I didn’t. I said you have contempt for users. And you do.

HMeyers says:

iTunes music can be burnt to CD. To the best of my knowledge, none of the other DRM crap services like Napster let you even do that.

Doesn’t this mean that iTunes plays on more devices — namely CD-ROM players / computers — than any other of these “schemes”?

(And you could buy a music CD instead of buy a song off iTunes so how is this any sort of monopoly anyway?)

Lauren the Ghoti says:

#58 – HMeyers –

Kudos. Excellent points – I wish they had occurred to me.

But don’t plan on getting any coherent response from the Apple-bashers. Instead of reasoned debate, they much prefer to assuage their collective techno-inferiority complex by rationalizing the disadvantages of their passive, ovine conformity as being someone else’s (read: Apple’s) fault.

Of course, that’s just one explanation; OTOH, it might be sour grapes – or it might be that they’re simply full of shit.