No religion and an end to war: how thinkers see the future | Science | Guardian Unlimited — You need to read this entire piece to get a good face-full of idealism. Note that this comes out of the socialist-leaning Guardian. It seems to me to be a lot of wishful thinking. The way I see things the more likely scenarios are just the opposite. I’d predict more religion and more war.
People’s fascination for religion and superstition will disappear within a few decades as television and the internet make it easier to get information, and scientists get closer to discovering a final theory of everything, leading thinkers argue today.
The web magazine Edge (www.edge.org) asked more than 150 scientists and intellectuals: “What are you optimistic about?” Answers included hope for an extended human life span, a bright future for autistic children, and an end to violent conflicts around the world.
Philosopher Daniel Denett believes that within 25 years religion will command little of the awe it seems to instil today. The spread of information through the internet and mobile phones will “gently, irresistibly, undermine the mindsets requisite for religious fanaticism and intolerance”.
Biologist Richard Dawkins said that physicists would give religion another problem: a theory of everything that would complete Albert Einstein’s dream of unifying the fundamental laws of physics. “This final scientific enlightenment will deal an overdue death blow to religion and other juvenile superstitions.”
found by JulieB
Has Sharon re emerged ?? Please don’t feed the trolls.
Society will always divide into groups, and the groups will always initiate friction. All of the anti-religion posts are totally off base with their simplistic (simple minded) approach to violence: eliminate religion and you eliminate war!
Bullshit. The Civil War wasn’t fought over religion. Nor was the Spanish American War, WW I, WW II, the Korean War, the Vietnam War, Gulf War I, and Gulf War II — though Gulf War II has religious overtones.
The French do not hate Americans because we have a Republican president or because of the “Christian Right” (whoever the hell they are supposed to be), they hate us because we are Americans. They tolerated us when they needed our “nuclear umbrella” to protect them from the USSR. But the collapse of the Soviet Union left us as the only pit bull in a neighborhood filled with poodles — we are something to be feared, and it’s only natural to hate what you fear. If it wasn’t Bush and conservatives that gave them cause, they would find another reason to hate us. It’s only natural human behavior. I give even odds that the United States will have a war with the European Union sometime this century.
Going back 35 years when I was in High School: My public school contained 1300 students, not a single one of which was black. (This was not because of any direct form of segragation; it’s just that very few blacks lived in the communities serviced by the school. Any black students in the district were voluntarily transported by their parents to an integrated school — for obvious reasons.) But that didn’t keep our school student body from splintering. Without blacks to attack, we invented our own target groups — rednecks and hippies — with sometimes violent results.
We will always subdivide into groups, and those groups will always generate friction, including war. Religion is just one way to identify a group. Hitler targeted Jews, but Pol Pot chose anyone with an education.
The religion antagonists on this blog is just another group.
You can name a million wars fought over a non religious issue. But it only takes ONE war to end it all.
Besides it’s really about governments making decisions based on religion and not rationality.
How many years longer will the right ignore environmental issues? Will the USA ever teach creationism in all science classes? Could we be destroyed from within? Who gets the leftover nukes?
31,
It comes down to the same thing, IF you want to pick 1 religious group.
WHO makes the laws??
The USA was built on the IDEAL of freedom of religion. PICK ONE.
Government should be based on the ideal that the LAWS are for GROUPS not individuals, as YOUR religion should guide you in YOUR beliefs as an individual.
show me where the HIPPY idea is, and I WILL join..
Show me 1 religious group that dont have Hypocrites, and I will salute it. Show me 1 TRUE religious, Honest, true to himself person, and I just might BOW to the person.
the best religions I have seen, contest and debate among themselves, and TRY to find a truth, or evne a simple IDEAL to live by.
Mine goes like this.
BE NICE to everyone.
I dont have to give them money, IF I do not wish.
I do not have to help them IF I do not wish.
I can ASK them to leave my presence, IF I wish. OR I can leave THEIRS.
I try to LEARN and understand ALL people, and Their side of the story. NOT just MY IDEAL.
And few mess with me. As I do garner a few INTERESTING friends.
#35, Bullshit. The Civil War wasn’t fought over religion. Nor was the Spanish American War, WW I, WW II, the Korean War, the Vietnam War, Gulf War I, and Gulf War II — though Gulf War II has religious overtones.
If we didn’t have “God” on our side fighting the “Godless” heathens, doing the good fight, then there would not have been nearly as much support for any of the wars above. Most peons would not violate their conscience if they thought their “God” didn’t approve. “Une foi, un loi, un roi,” (one faith, one law, one king) was the whole thought process during most of Europe’s history until WW I.
There have been very few pure religious wars in history. The Northern Irish Troubles and the current Iraqi Civil War are two exceptions. Both of these conflicts are more about discrimination because of the religion then the religion though.
I agree fully with your contention that people will always form groups and it is these groups that fight each other. While religion is often the basis of the group, there are usually other dynamics that cause the friction with other groups.
With the exception above, I think you have made a very good argument and maybe if we had a few beers together we might end up there too.
Whoa, the EU and US fighting a war this century? Scary thought, but I can’t argue otherwise.
Thing about all that information leading to the demise of religion fails in one basic way: airheads don’t read or lead; they are naught but fodder for the lunatic zealots who will continue to lead them down bizarre pathes of ritual and sacrifice, with never an original thought disturbing the bovine placidity of their dreary lives.
In this modern world of searchable knowledge, there are two main groups being fattened up for a really big day at the Armaggedon Blood Party: Christians and Muslims.
35. Smith: “The Civil War wasn’t fought over religion. Nor was the Spanish American War, WW I, WW II, the Korean War, the Vietnam War, Gulf War I, and Gulf War II — though Gulf War II has religious overtones.”
True, but that only goes back 150 yrs or so. Thats a very small sampling of history. Many conflicts are religious in nature.
“The French do not hate Americans because we have a Republican president or because of the “Christian Right” (whoever the hell they are supposed to be), they hate us because we are Americans.”
Hey, why stop at the French. I dont think its because we are Americans per se, but they and others (including myself) are becoming increasingly aware that the history of flawed American Foreign Policy has been driven by paranoid idealogues with an “us” against “them” theology, and horrendous crimes against soverign nations have been committed by them, on our behalf. Having said that, I visited the Normandy coast in France in 2002, and I have to say that there is still, to this day, a palpable respect and love for the Americans, (also British and Canadians) who liberated that area from the Germans. The American cemetary was packed and as I was leaving the area, I was truly touched by the YOUNG an old people (French, British, American), weeping, as they exited this memorial. I will never forget it.
“Without blacks to attack, we invented our own target groups — rednecks and hippies — with sometimes violent results.”
I love this analogy, growing up late 60″s early 70’s in southern Virginia , this is completely accurate. This is exactly how our high school divided itself. Except it was termed jocks and freaks. (some of us freaks were also jocks, and that was a problem within a problem) We also had about 3 blacks in a school of 2500. They were generally ignored, I dont know which is worse, being an “outsider” or a non person, I expect the latter. On the other side of that coin, the “integrated ” school, 3 miles away had a reputation for “racial” problems and gangs, but a lousy football team.
“We will always subdivide into groups, and those groups will always generate friction, including war. Religion is just one way to identify a group. Hitler targeted Jews, but Pol Pot chose anyone with an education.”
Excellent, I totally agree. Humans ARE tribal. We want to belong to a group. When I was in Scouts, we fought other scout troops. When I was in elementary school, my soccer tribe ruled. High school, football tribe. In the military (US Coast Guard), we would fight the Squids or the Jarheads/ Groundpounders in bars in Norfolk, Va. If we cant fight others, we will find someone different to fight. Even on this level, this blog, we fight, Mac vs. PC, people want to identify with like people.
Good post. No solid answers, sadly.
Answer: 110 million.
Question: How many were killed under (godless) communism?
Clarification: yes, that’s an all-time record with no close second. (Nazis killed about 20 million)
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/COM.ART.HTM
Didn,t someone write a song about this? I think he got shot. As a side how many wars have been faught over remembered history?
The famous Humanist Voltaire predicted that Christianity would be gone in one generation. In retrospect, I think he was wrong.
I hope Richard Dawkins becomes a Christian like Stephen Jay Gould did. We Christians need to keep praying for him.