Any nurse can walk into a bad situation. The one Luanne Linnard-Palmer can’t forget came as she readied a little boy for a blood transfusion only to be told by his mother “You know you’re damning his soul to hell!”
The child’s mother was a Jehovah’s Witness, a faith that rejects blood transfusions. Her son had sickle cell anemia and had become extremely weak.
“It blew me away,” Linnard-Palmer recalls years later. “I worried not only about my own reaction but what was going to happen to this child with a lifelong disease.”
The incident planted the seeds for a newly published book by the California nurse…The challenges she recounts are both religious and cultural.
“Over and over I see people who say they won’t consent until they speak to a minister or have a laying-on of hands,” she added, causing delays in treatment but not necessarily refusals.
It’s astounding, it’s confounding, how many of those who invoke the safety of children as a motto to guide politics and life — also end up condemning children to death and disease to satisfy their dependence on religion.
Just to be clear; that quote is either a misquote, entirely false, or the women was not a Jehovah’s Witness.
Jehovah’s Witnesses do not believe in hell (as a fiery place of torment), or of the immortal soul. They believe that when you die you are just dead, no afterlife. The Bible holds out a hope of a resurrection from the dead. And if the hospital took custody of the child for the time the transfusion was administered they have assumed responsibility for what ever happens to the child.
James — there’s often a disconnect between the “official” line and what the rank-and-file practice.
Hey, that’s how you get new cults splitting off from the old. JW’s split from 7th Day Adventists.
I’m an atheist but it makes perfect sense to me. If you accept heaven as your goal, then of course anything that interfered with that goal would be avoided at all costs. Let’s face it, either way we’re going to die, it’s just the matter of when. It would be pointless to prolong your life at the expense of everlasting life in heaven.
#4: or as the saying goes – “I want to go to heaven, just not today.”
I’ve always found it strange that a group that believe there is only room in heaven for 144,000 souls would recruit as much as they do.
144,000 souls, one per byte eh. Maybe heaven has gone hi tech and will now hold 4.3 gig souls..
#6
They need money.
Interesting.
sickle cell is VERY VERY RARE, in white folks..
AND
It has to be a gene in BOTH parents for the child to manifest it, and the parents NOT to have it..
The anti-faith authors on this blog are getting old. The story report was fine until your stupid comment at the end. As a minister I never (and I mean never) get calls for advice on medicine. Get a grip and get off your soap box(es).
#10 – It has to be a gene in BOTH parents for the child to manifest it, and the parents NOT to have it..
So, the parents were brother and sister. 😉
Seriously, according to Wikipedia, there’s still just a 25% chance of the child not getting affected even if both parents were carriers. 50% chance of the child being a carrier and 25% chance of not having the faulty gene at all.
#12
The anti-faith authors on this blog are getting old.
Aren’t we all?! We can’t be Forever Young… 😉
As a minister I never (and I mean never) get calls for advice on medicine.
So, which version of Christianity (or other religion) are you preaching?
OK – those who are commenting about JWs do not know what they are talking about.
they do not recruit for money. All donations are voluntary and there is no pressure to contribute. There is no tithe.
They preach to others because it was commanded by Jesus Christ. See Matthew 24:14 and Matthew 28:19, 20 for their reasoning.
In addition – They accept medical practices with the exception of blood transfusions or medical procedures that require them.
And as I recall there is still (for the time being anyway) Freedom of religion in this country.
Yeah, this is pretty much just an antiChristian story. It’s about Jehovah’s Witnesses, using a picture of Pentecostal Christians.
The nurse, Luanne Linnard-Palmer, was over the top on that last comment, saying Christians shouldn’t seek Christian healing first before seeing a doctor. The God’s healing is cheap with no side effects, when He acts. The doctor will charge big and still not guarantee healing. The last woman I prayed for had been irradiated for cancer. Not only was the cancer still spreading, but her small intestines were burned and ceased working. Permanent condition. The doctors couldn’t “treat” her any more for fear of killing her. Jesus healed the intestines and half the cancer after two hours of prayer. The doctor then recommended to try more of his procedures instead of any more prayer.
BTW, the Jehovah’s witnesses aren’t Christian. Ask them if Jesus Christ was an archangel. Ask them if they offer salvation to people anymore.
#16 – The last woman I prayed for had been irradiated for cancer. Not only was the cancer still spreading, but her small intestines were burned and ceased working. Permanent condition. The doctors couldn’t “treat” her any more for fear of killing her. Jesus healed the intestines and half the cancer after two hours of prayer.
Perhaps the doctor had messed up her diagnosis? And also, if prayer does work… how do you explain the millions of other people dying despite praying for them? Didn’t they pray hard enough? It’s all in the mind of you… if you’re willing to suppress logical thinking, then yes, prayer does work. Here’s an interesting link someone posted a couple of days ago: http://tinyurl.com/y4joso
11, I didnt say..
13, BUT both parents SHOULD know if they were carriers..I thought that it wasnt able for them to give blood either.
Some of the commentors here are thinking of Christian Scientists. I’m not really familiar with JW, but they have a right to refuse treatment. And we should make note of that right instead of pressuring them, especially when some egotistical school official decides that your children should go on psychoactive drugs.
to #17
Why doesn’t God answer prayers? Good question. Here’s my answer as to how prayer works:
http://orderofsaintpatrick.org/teachings/faith-healing.htm
Now, I have prayed in hope of answered prayer and seen significantly higher instances of improvement and healing in people prayed for. Ah, but what about the placebo effect? I have also prayed for people who didn’t have a suspicion I was praying for them and seen a significant higher instance of improvement and healing in them, too. I consider it important to be somewhat rigorous on this because I was once one of those sneering skeptics myself.
It is based upon my own observations that about 80% of those who I pray for that have arthritis are pain-free and have full flexibility in an average of 4 minutes of prayer. The swelling at the joints takes much longer. This statistic is the same whether they believe it or not, whether they have prayed before or not, whether the doctors have given up on a healing or not. The movie’s assumption of no results is now blown.
But why aren’t everyone healed immediately? We need to be walking in the positive promises of God and avoiding the negative promises.
1. God deals with us as individuals, as families, as societies, as cities, as businesses, etc. Prayer & deliverance must be for all levels. Repentance must be on all levels. I’ve got numerous examples of bringing healing to an individual by dealing with the upper levels.
2. God doesn’t grade on the curve and be righteous. He gave negative promises to sin and idolatry. As we show sincere intentions of repentance, He will cut us slack and declare us righteous enough to honor our prayers.
3. Sometimes people don’t want to live. God is a gentleman; He honors the free will He gave each of us. If a person wants to go, just bless them on their way. I find out about this by asking them to repeat after me: “I renounce death; I chose life.” If they can say that, healing comes rapidly.
4. God is a jealous god. If you are following Jesus but supplementing Him with Reiki or a Ouija board, He won’t be available. There are negative curses for idolatry, occult power and occult advice upon individuals, family lines and communities. If you own idols or charms, wittingly or unwittingly, the curse is there.
5. If a witch, shaman or Satanist use fasting prayers against you, it has to be broken with fasting and Christian prayers.
6. If a Buddhist, shaman or witch bless the ground or water, the demons they put there remain and affect people until they are told to get out by a Christian. Those demonic blessings can make you sick.
7. If a person doesn’t want to get well, they won’t. That can happen where a child wasn’t given any love & attention unless they were sick. Naturally, they look forward to being sick!
I could go on, but you get the idea.
This is why religions need us liberals.
Religious conservatives see us as the enemy but without “liberal” progressives and reformers, religions can easily become hopelessly outdated as society modernizes.
I’m not a JW but, if I was, I’d campaign against their now-outdated doctrine about blood. It may have made sense decades ago but now makes the religion look foolish — besides not being good for the members.
We liberals aren’t the enemy of the church and bible — we’re the saviors!
#22, Timbo
It is early in the morning. I can’t sleep because of a cold, when I lay down I can’t breathe. Should I pray for relief? Why? Under your logic, the virus that gave me this cold came from the same entity you want me to pray to. He also gave me my arthritis which interferes with my quality of life.
My father-in-law was the pastor of his church. He lived his life right. His family was devout as well. Everyone prayed for him when he developed cancer 20 years ago. Well, he didn’t develop it, you see, under your logic, god developed it. He only lived with it until he succumbed a long and painful death. Hey !!! A lot of people prayed their hearts out for him. But he still died.
His mother died a few years later. Of Alzheimers. Yup, there was a lot of prayer for her too. Her oldest son died of a heart attack a couple of years later. Didn’t have much time to pray for him, but most everyone did anyway. My wife’s grandfather died from a self inflicted gun shot shortly after the grandmother died. Severe depression is organic and not self will.
I hope you won’t suggest they were weak or didn’t pray correctly. By your logic, they were killed by the same hand that created them. Your god.
You are a fraud. A snake oil salesman. A con artist. A deceiver. You make people think you can cure them when medicine and science can’t. You give false hope you can make a difference when you can’t. People may be stupid for believing in god, yawah, allah, bhudda, or whomever. You sir deserve a long penal sentence for practicing medicine without a license.
#25 “Fusion”
A certain Book says, “The simple perish for lack of knowledge.” I have run across a lot of people who have been prayed for numerous times and yet were healed when I asked, “God Almighty, please teach me to pray that I may pray according to your will — and watch things happen.” I am led by the Holy Spirit to pray conventional prayers and sometimes outlandish prayers.
Another reason we don’t get answers to a specific problem is because we don’t have all the Gifts of Healings — the church body does. 1 Corinthians 12 talks about that. I can pray for flus and colds with the same statistical results as random chance. I have varying degrees of success in praying for other things. But I know two Christians who definitely do have the gift of healing colds and flus — they get 100% results in hours, as far as I have seen so far. Do you want me to pass your problem along to them?
On the flip-side of that, we don’t see a lot of healings because a lot of Christians don’t pray for others. What gifts they have aren’t put to use for the church. They don’t know what gifts they have because they haven’t tried. We have all been taught how to hold to the form of religion while denying the power thereof. So we end up with witchcraft and Buddhism in the pews.
Seminary doesn’t empower you with the Holy Spirit; it teaches you sound doctrine and socially how to “pastor” people. That’s all. The head of the church is supposed to be Jesus, communicating with His flock, not some Christian with Christian board meetings coming up with programs.
Where did pain & suffering come from? Independent living by Adam & Eve (whether they are real or allegorical doesn’t matter). Independent living is the opposite of walking by faith. Jesus said, “Apart from the Father I do nothing, but what I see the Father doing (prophecy) that I also do….” Thus He was a candidate for God to work on His behalf — as our example of the perfect Christian.
The God who devised the laws of physics & chemistry also established & enforces laws of justice. It’s God’s mercy that keeps us alive after the negative promise given about a certain tree kicked in. Adam & Eve brought it down upon their own heads. Mercy is only postponed justice.
There are numerous people who are grateful to be alive because I was willing to be God’s gofer. In one case, I was too busy to do what He told me to do — and the woman died of her disease a couple of months later. If only…
Timbo… I wish you all the best, and the next time you’ve got a headache… pray it away. In a couple of seconds, your headache should be gone… after all, it’s a minor job compared to cancer, which takes two hours.
#27, Timbo,
“Apart from the Father I do nothing, but what I see the Father doing (prophecy) that I also do….”
So Christ also killed millions with floods. With Pestilence. With fire. Then Christ slaughtered more millions in battle. The why we don’t remember, or even remember that we shouldn’t kill. But killing in your god’s name is fine with you.
Gee, I don’t remember the scriptures saying anything about slaughtering the American Indians. I don’t remember the scriptures saying anything about Crusaders slaughtering Arabs after they surrendered. I don’t remember anything in the scriptures about burning “witches” or “heathens” at the stake in order to purify the “church”.
You are totally disillusioned.
#30
Thanks for your excellent posts, Mr. Fusion. The following clip deals with the bible and killing:
http://www.whydoesgodhateamputees.com/video2.htm
And Christians are complaining that the Quran teaches hatred…
I always consider WTFWJD, but that is just me. Also, wasn’t Jesus on Larry King the other night? Apparently he was talking about why he couldn’t eat M&M’s – falls through the holes in his hands. He said his favorite sign was, “Jesus is coming, look busy!”
#32
Yes, Christianity has somewhat evolved, but the fact remains that the writings are still in there. The Quran has similar writings, but you don’t see the majority of the Muslims slicing the throats of us infidels.
As for Hashshashin… I read parts of the page, and yes, there are many similarities with the insurgents in Iraq. But this all boils down to indoctrination… we’ve seen this in armies that had predominately Christian soldiers. E.g. Waffen SS during WW2. They died for “a cause”.
#30, Dear Fusion,
So you wonder why there is death & destruction in the world? There’s a flip-side to God’s mercy that keeps us alive. God’s mercy must be fairly given to the unjust as well as the just. But the unjust assume God’s mercy is a sign of weakness or malice on God’s part, so they continue on with their evil deeds. They don’t understand we all will come before the God of absolute justice and be held accountable. In the meantime we can pray for them, so God will change their hearts to the better.
By the way, healing prayer does prove there is a supernatural and there could be a God of justice, despite John Lennon’s song. I know about the supernatural because I came out of the occult when I found Jesus had something better.
The church is not what I follow or defend. I follow Jesus. Here”s my take on that:
http://orderofsaintpatrick.org/relations/churchianity.htm
I go to church holding my nose, sometimes. They all are infiltrated and corrupted to one degree of another. Nobody preaches from the book of Jude anymore. I, like Sisyphus, try to push the ball forward in the church and outside the church as best as I can. Having Asperger’s means I’m very used to rejection.
As for headaches, God has healed headaches in answer to my prayers. He has also healed paralysis, chemotherapy damage, emotional traumas, etc. I have seen improvement in MS. But if someone doesn’t get a healing after seeing me, I recommend seeing a doctor.
Timbo,
There is no easy way to say this: you are a complete whack job.
Provide statistics of a serious nature regarding the effectiveness of prayer. Oh, wait, you can’t. All you have is anecdotal evidence, which is utterly useless.