Sorry TOO HOT NOT to move back to the front page. — the Management
A new book by Jimmy Carter in which he compares Israel’s treatment of Palestinians to South Africa’s Apartheid system has sparked a bitter debate over the former U.S. president’s reputation as a peacemaker.
Jewish groups have expressed outrage at the book “Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid,” arguing its comparison of Israel to the racist South African regime could undermine the perception of Israel’s legitimacy.
Carter, 82, has been dogged by protests during a promotional tour and Ken Stein, a long-time advisor on Middle East issues who was also the first executive director at the Carter Center in Atlanta, resigned over the book’s content.
In an interview with Reuters, Stein cited a passage from the book that said it was imperative for Arabs and Palestinians to “make it clear that they will end the suicide bombings and other acts of terrorism when international laws and the ultimate goals of the Roadmap for peace are accepted by Israel.”
Stein said: “Does that mean killing Jews is legitimate? Did I misread this? I don’t think so. If he wrote it, he is endorsing violence, which is not the original purpose of the Carter Center.”
You think Jimmy has been spending too much time with Mel?!
Update: Carter responds to the criticism here.
31,
I call it a failure to answer the question. Allow me to answer who Israel invaded in 1948, 1968, and 1972. The answer is no one. Israel was invaded by its Arab neighbors. Also notice how Jordan or any other Arab country did not give any land to their “Palestinian brothers”. As for Iraq, you seem to love the UN when it condemns Israel but seem to turn a blind eye when it condemns Saddam and Iraq. I call that hypocrisy.
35,
The treatment of the Palestinians by their “brethren” is well documented as well. No one is justifying that position here. What you are doing is trying to shift the argument away from the state of Israel and it’s treatment of the people who were there before the West “created” the new Israel. And the ongoing plight of humanity that exists today.
Don’t bring up Iraq, Jordan, Syria, your neighbours dog etc. What has Israel done to rectify the position it has put on the Palestinians. The ghettos that exist in Nablus, Gaza and the rest. What has Israel done to live with the Palestinians after the balfour declaration explicitly stated that they must do. What did the Palestinians do to the Israelis prior to Hitler that Europe gave away the land and the Zionists took?
I’m sorry, did I mention anything about Iraq? Stay on topic. You’re seeming very angry.
Nasty little hit piece on a man who’s done more to save the Israelis than the Israelis have done for themselves.
It’s not legitimate for either side to kill, but then again, as one of their leaders once said, Arab lives are not worth one Israeli life. The racism and the… immorality of the Israeli… conquest of an area that they simply took through acts of terrorism — King David Hotel anyone? — has caused this situation through simple concatenation of events for over fifty years.
The American view now is: Arabs are bad. Kill them. Listen to the Christian evangelicals on TV for more than an hour and you’ll get an earful.
Israel has more of a political divide on the Palestinian issue than we do! Our news is, to put it mildly, slanted towards the Israelis. We never experience cognitive dissonance on the issue because we will never be exposed to real information on the conflict. Arab = bad. An enormous part of our slant is caused by 1) the evangelicals in our country supporting Israel because it must exist to bring about their loved end of the world, and 2) the enormously powerful pro-Israeli lobby and 3) the ideal that being anti-Israel conquest is somehow anti-Jewish. Israel is a country, Judaism is a religion, get it straight.
Lissen up. Israel, at its basis, bases its claim to the land from the sea to the Euphrates on the promise of God to Abraham and his descendants because of a wrestling match with an angel. Or something like that. If an armed group of people showed up in Georgia claiming to own the eastern seabord because they beat an angel wrestling, we’d call the national guard. Actually, some Indians at Wounded Knee tried something like that in the ’70’s, and we smashed them.
The Palestinians have lived on that land since before recorded history, more or less. The Israelis blew up people and claimed it about 60 years back. That’s pretty much the bottom line. I’ve no sympathy for them anymore. They’ve become everything they hated about their own persecutors.
And, oh yeah, as things have turned out, there’s nothing left to do but watch the Arab world slowly overpower the Iraelis. And we’ll gladly jump in to fight on Israel’s side, so we’re going to get a thumpin’ too.
Under the 1947 UN partition plan, there was a Jewish state and an Arab state. The Arabs attacked the Jews and lost. Boo-Hoo. They started a war, and lost it. They must now live with the consequences. They tried again in 1968 and 1972 and lost twice more. It wasn’t the Jews who rejected the 1947 plan either. Remember when Israel offered Arafat 95% of what he wanted and he walked away in the 1990’s?
39,
Was it the Palestinians who attacked Israel, or the neighbours. My money is on the neighbours. You keep bringing up the neighbours. I order you to cease immediately. THE NEIGHBOURS ARE NOT THE PALESTINIANS! geeze!
Arafat walked away from a deal that would have created little tiny pockets of land surrounded by israel. Would you have agreed to that? Probably, because you don’t understand reality.
And since I‘m a really nice guy, here’s the “generous” offer…
#26 It wasn’t Dvorak that submitted this, it was SN. It was also SN that equated Carter to Mel Gibson. Don’t worry, this is par-for-the course for SN. But it’s basically how Dvorak.org generates controversy to get more page hits. Not sure if SN really believes this way or not, but it doesn’t really matter, if it’s controversial, he’ll say or post it.
41,
SN does. I guarantee it.
Carter may have had his shortcomings as President, but no more so than any President in recent history. Had his initiatives, such as those on energy been embraced more fully we would be in better shape as a nation than we are now.
The link here is a response on this topic from Carter.
40,
I know you want to define terms so your arguments will look better, but too bad. Israel does not exist in a vacuum, and the Palestinians do not either. Who funds Hamas and who funded the PLO? Also, what was Arafat’s counter offer in the 2000 Camp David meetings? Why don’t you tell us? And yes, I would take 95% of what I wanted as opposed to 0%. Who doesn’t understand reality here?
44,
In fact, Israel DOES exist in a vacuum. It’s own. The Palestinians are reacting to oppression, and the people that fund them are exploiting their desperation. That is a well known and understood fact. I won’t deny it. But you’re STILL ignoring the situation. Israel was a construct of a pen with little or no consideration of the ramifications of it’s action. Now, looking across the past we can see clearly that those poor plans have left the people of Palestine and Israel angry and desperate.
Now, what would Arafat’s counter offer be? let’s see… How about a homeland for the Palestinians? Barak tried to squelch it, and sought to negotiate a deal that would NOT give the Palestinians a homeland, full stop. And yes, you would take 95%. That’s why Arafat was a leader. He knew that after 50 years, only a full nation for his people was acceptable. The ISRAELIS didn’t want that.
As for Hamas… It’s also well documented that Hamas was a religious foil to Arafat’s secular party. Hamas hated Arafat because he did not want an Islamic state. He wanted Pan-Arabism ala Nasser to flourish.
Anyhoo, it doesn’t really matter. You believe that the occupied should bend over and grab their ankles and thank their masters for another day, and I believe the occupied should fight back.
#41 “Not sure if SN really believes this way or not, but it doesn’t really matter, if it’s controversial, he’ll say or post it.”
#42 “SN does. I guarantee it.”
I’m an atheist lawyer with a degree in philosophy. I don’t believe in anything! 😉
Arafat made no counter offer. Get your facts straight before shooting your mouth off. Arafat was a terrorist, plain and simple. An Arab in Israel has more rights than in any other Middle Eastern country.
–Yasser Arafat, Chairman of the PLO (During an October 21,1996 speech at the Dehaishe refugee camp)
Jihad, jihad, jihad sounds real secular to me
Jimmy is exactly right. It’s been too long for someone to say it.
If we had been more even handed in the middle east we would not
be in the mess we are now in. Israel is now doing many of the things
that Hitler did in WWII. Disgusting!!
47,
There is no counter offer when you ask for nationhood and they give you sand. He has a demand, a right to a nationhood for his people. Barak and Israel are the one’s to grant or refuse, since they hold the power. See, oppressors oppress, and the oppressed fight back. Very simple.
As for you quote… Here’s one for you.
– Barak The New York Review of Books (June 13, 2002). He doesn’t sound like a racsist / anti-Semite at all! No painting a whole race with one brush for him.
Jihad means Struggle. And yes, that’s exactly what they know. Struggle for 50 years. Your attempt to load the word failed. Try again please. Oh, and in case you didn’t notice, Arafat was struggling for a homeland for his people. One in which you would accept only 95%.
46,
I don’t believe you… 😉
50. “I don’t believe you… “
Welcome to my world! I believe in nothing, you don’t believe me. It’s a start in the right direction!
51,
Now you’re just yanking my chain! I know you believe Babel is a terrifying movie for parents!
53. “I know you believe Babel is a terrifying movie for parents!”
If you could prove to me that the movie Babel exists! 😉
Jihad is holy war or a struggle in the way of God. (no religious meaning there) Once again you don’t get to define terms to make yourself look good. Ever hear of the very secular group al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades? They are part of the Fatah started by who? That right! Yassar Arafat. Sounds like another secular group. Kill yourself for Allah; get 72 virgins, all in a secular way of course. You also forgot that they had a homeland in 1948, but started a war and lost it. Get a clue.
54,
No one can put it more eloquently…
Uri Avnery
11.5.02
A Meeting with Arafat
Nice puff piece. It changes nothing. Israel attacked Arafat’s compound AFTER attacks in Israel.
57,
Again, attacks in Israel are responses to attacks in Gaza / West Bank etc. It all goes back to partition in 1919. The West created the problem and have not had the balls to fix it after they supported Hitler prior to WW2. Oh, and just for fun…click here
I really think we’ve beaten this to death.
Named,
Wow, you didn’t read Carter’s letter linked to in #43 did you? “…in Israel, where a democracy exists with all the freedoms we enjoy in our country and Israeli Jews and Arabs are legally guaranteed the same rights as citizens.”
Kinda refutes all of your (and catbeller’s) fantastic arguments about what a terrible place Israel is, doesn’t it?
Carter does make some excellent points and I think he has ideas that could be fruitful for at least finding a detente in the area.
Oh, and for all the arguments from the wonderful Uri Avnery, he seems to forget about the committment of the PLO and its various other groups for the total annihilation of Israel –
And who supported Hitler DURING World War II in the Middle East? I would agree this topic has been beaten to death.
#58 (named again),
No the Nazis didn’t kill any Jews (or equally, others) before 1942, did they?
Answer: YES they did.
Meaningless link from an extremist group…
Who was one of the first people Hitler told about the Holocaust? Why Grand Mufti Mohammad Amin al-Husayni of Jerusalem, a Palestinian.
Named has shown himself to be uninformed and now he quotes a site that blames the JEWS for the Holocaust. Here is another quote from that site:
So Jews were responsible for the Holocaust. What a nutcase. Get them talking long enough and their true colors show. Wouldn’t be SS black would it?
As usual, the jewish network has flocked to the scene to discredit a source of real information without the required pro-Israel bias. For those wanting unbiased info on this and other topics of interest to the general non-jewish reader check out http://www.rense.com.
Evaluate for yourself without the jewish media spin.
Unlike the lockstep right-wingers and fearfilled liberals, the Israel Broadcast Authority has no problem listening to what Jimmy Carter actually has to say in his book — and about his book.
I just watched portions of their interview with him [in English]. I went to their website to see if I might offer folks a link; but, didn’t find anything to link to in English.
They weren’t happy about his analysis; but, they didn’t try to shut it down.