Student and teacher
Talk in Class Turns to God, Setting Off Public Debate on Rights
Before David Paszkiewicz got to teach his accelerated 11th-grade history class about the United States Constitution this fall, he was accused of violating it.
Shortly after school began in September, the teacher told his sixth-period students at Kearny High School that evolution and the Big Bang were not scientific, that dinosaurs were aboard Noah’s ark, and that only Christians had a place in heaven, according to audio recordings made by a student whose family is now considering a lawsuit claiming Mr. Paszkiewicz broke the church-state boundary.
“If you reject his gift of salvation, then you know where you belong,” Mr. Paszkiewicz was recorded saying of Jesus. “He did everything in his power to make sure that you could go to heaven, so much so that he took your sins on his own body, suffered your pains for you, and he’s saying, ‘Please, accept me, believe.’ If you reject that, you belong in hell.”
The student, Matthew LaClair, said that he felt uncomfortable with Mr. Paszkiewicz’s statements in the first week, and taped eight classes starting Sept. 13 out of fear that officials would not believe the teacher had made the comments.
In a Sept. 25 letter to the principal, Matthew wrote: “I care about the future generation and I do not want Mr. Paszkiewicz to continue preaching to and poisoning students.”
this was posted a while back on Richard Dawkins site… if you want the audio, here it is:
[edited: pls use tinyurl]
#31 Ron
If you would have bothered to read the preamble of the NEA you would know the teaching kids is not what they limit as their agenda. They unlike you and this teacher don’t confuse their personal agenda with that of educating children.
#32
LOL Gary that was great!
Here’s the audio if anyone’s interested:
[edited: pls use tinyurl]
#16 – thats because those are valid and justifiable beliefs – christianity is just hokey bullshit
I’m glad that the NEA doesn’t confuse educating kids with their personal agenda. They would never let a minor issue like teaching interfere with what they preaching. Jay Bennish anyone? All the teachers showing Michael Moore movies? Oh wait, you agree with that so it’s OK.
And what is my personal agenda by the way?
Allow me to quote my on post # 9 “Oh how I wish teachers would just teach the damn material and not insert their own political and/or religious ideology in to it. Left or Right leanings should be left at the door”
23: in some states it is absolutely illegal to record audio without the explicit consent of the participants. In PA, for example, surveillance systems are forbidden from recording audio, but for some reason video is OK. (I don’t make the laws…but I used to hang out in security newsgroups where this was discussed at some length)
I have no problems with the evolution recording. It’s a critical view of evolution and creation. Evolution IS still a theory with serious flaws in it’s core beliefs. He DID make arguments that believing in creation because of faith does not mean it’s true too.
The other recordings go much further than he should have, yes… but the evolution thing was actually decent, and dare I say… scientific.
#39
That only applies in private conversations. This was not a private conversation. There was no expectation of privacy. Just as if I were to stand out on a corner in PA and start shouting things at people. You would have every right to record rantings without my permissions
#40 Ed
Evolution is NOT a theory. It is a FACT. Just like gravity is a fact. There are different theories of how evolution works just as there are different theories of how gravity works.
Don’t feel bad. Lots of people uneducated in science make this mistake.
Last I checked the money of our country says “in GOD we trust” and the pledge of allegiance is “under GOD”. The teacher was doing his American duty to show kids the proper way in life.
Genesis 6:24 – When the flood waters finally evaporated into the heavens, and the water fell from 4700 fathoms to 500 fathoms above sea level (est day 38), and many islands of land were big enough to accommodate all the animals, Noah traveled followed the currents to every continent (est 1200 mph) and delivered all the animals to their specified locations before he touched bottom. And behold, the dinosaurs having not eaten in 40 days, ate down through 500 feet of [120 million year old] rock where they died form kidney stones and constipation. And Noah asked God “why did you not just bury the dinosaurs first instead of asking me take them on the ark”, and God said, “I don’t know.”
#42
J, With all do respect, I’ve heard of “the law of gravity”, but I’ve never heard of “the law of evolution”. Evolution is a theory, and I would be curious to find a place that refers it as a law. I don’t want to go into all the facts for and against evolution. I can point to you to places that examine this very thing. Evolution is a theory, but it’s not a science vs. faith debate.
#38, actually, I would go so far as to say teachers in government schools should leave all their opinions at the door.
Ahhh, I love the sweet sound of 11th grade minds applying principles of critical thinking to religious beliefs, but I can’t help but wonder how entirely different this might have been with a more charismatic teacher or a younger audience. It’s amazing how much more open to indoctrination a 2nd or 3rd grade class can be. Get ’em while they’re young!
As a preschooler, I could pick up a little extra pocket change from relatives by quoting the 23rd Psalm from the Bible. If this guy had been my 1st grade teacher, I definitely would have been the teacher’s pet 😉
The decline in society all began when the Bible stopped being taught in school! This is a definate reap what you sow problem. Of course for all you non believers, I take it you are just hunky dory with the way things are going?
“40, the teacher did not compare evolution science to creationism. He compared ignorance about science to creationism. The lawyer/father put it succinctly… “In a few short weeks, this teacher has displayed bigotry, hypocrisy, arrogance and an appalling ignorance of science.” On listening to the recording, I agree.
Once again it is ok that you don’t understand.
The “law” of gravity only applies to the mathematics that describe what takes place not what causes gravity but non the less gravity is a FACT. I understand the difficulty in that concept. There do exist many different theories of what causes or why gravity exists. A very fine distinction. You along with many people simply don’t get the fine details of what is being explained mostly because you have not been educated properly in science and mathematics. So don’t feel bad.
Just as I said evolution is a FACT there is NO debate in the scientific community about that. There is however debate on by which means evolution functions. Do you see the difference? One states that something defiantly is and does take place. The other says we have many theories of HOW this occurs. Very fine distinction. So again I understand your difficulty in this issue.
#45
Once again it is ok that you don’t understand.
The “law” of gravity only applies to the mathematics that describe what takes place not what causes gravity but non the less gravity is a FACT. I understand the difficulty in that concept. There do exist many different theories of what causes or why gravity exists. A very fine distinction. You along with many people simply don’t get the fine details of what is being explained mostly because you have not been educated properly in science and mathematics. So don’t feel bad.
Just as I said evolution is a FACT there is NO debate in the scientific community about that. There is however debate on by which means evolution functions. Do you see the difference? One states that something defiantly is and does take place. The other says we have many theories of HOW this occurs. Very fine distinction. So again I understand your difficulty in this issue.
It seems that these religious types are NUCKING FUTS.
mcjj – you’re right. KILL the unbelievers – in God’s Mercy. KILL ’em all to save their souls!!!!
If we’re not careful, this country will spiral down into a fit of rationality that might raise the ignorant and cure society’s ill. God knows we don’t want that.
Remember its not electricity, its Jesus Juice!
Newsflash, #43: “In God We Trust” and “…under God…” were only added during the red-scare under McCarthy during the 1940s and 1950s.
When I went to school teachers worked vvery hard not to say anything political or religious. This kind of stuff is ridiculous. That guy needs to be kicked with an iron boot.
#48: Please state, exactly, when and where this occurred and all effects related to your claims, and cite all sources. Otherwise, take your BS with you on your way out the door.
On the other hand, let’s examine all the wonderful things the Bible has brought us over the ages. “Divine” acts such as the Crusades, the Inquisition, and slavery are all things every Christian should be proud of, no?
Ok, lets talk some actual statistics shall we? I see them bandied around all the time.. so I thought I’d find out what the best ones were. The US Bureau of the Census doesn’t specifically collect information about that due to Public Law 94-521.
However – The American Religious Identification Survey (ARIS) 2001 was based on a random digit-dialed telephone survey of 50,281,000 American residential households in the continental U.S.A (48 states).
207,980,000 people were include. A pretty hefty segment of the population.
Of that:
Total Christian: 159,506,000
No Religion: 29,481,000
(includes Agnostic, “secular”, atheist, etc).
So… approximating that out of the figures that responded (so minus 11,246,000 who didn’t respond) we get, rounded to the nearest %:
Christian = 81%
No Religion = 15%
Or, to put it another way – Out of every 10 people in the US – 8 will be some form of Christian (probably Catholic or Baptist, but a fair number are a generic “Christian”), and certainly one with have no religion. The other one… well they might, but they are also pretty likely to not have any religion, if they do they’ll either be Jewish or Islamic
Other interesting data:
Jewish = 4% (up from 1991)
Muslim/Islamic = 1.4% (down from 1991)
Native American = 0.052% (more than doubled since 1991)
Wiccan = 0.07% (up around 1500% since 1991)
I should note – this means nothing about what should be taught in the schools. I just thought I’d throw some correct stats out there.
Oh and the data is from 2001 – recent surveys say that “no religion” is the fastest growing religious position, so those figures are very likely to be quite different from the make up we have now…
Oh and – Yes I know it seems to come to more than 100% – but thats because of rounding to the nearest % for the main two.
The religious statistics are hard to refute — America has a very large percentage of Christians. With numbers so huge, the sort of cultural decline that Higghawker #48 talks about is somehow happening despite children having such an overwhelmingly Christian influence in the home, from parents who have Christian beliefs. What is it about teaching scriptures in the schools that would reverse this cultural decline? Hmmm…
On the other hand, there are countries like Japan that have almost no Christian influence in their culture, yet Japanese people virtually kick our butt in most statistics of the same type Christians use to “prove” that America’s moral decline is connected to the removal of the Bible from schools. Maybe we should think about dumping Christianity in favor of one of the religions practiced in Japan, or other cultures with higher moral standards than America.
Christians never embrace “junk science” so firmly as when they can use junk statistics to prove America needs to become even more Christian-er.
Here is my beef……………I truly believe that moral education is a direct intervention by institutions such as the family, the church, and the school, not only but primarily. These affect the moral development of a person, including one’s behavior, one’s ability to think about issues of right and wrong. There is not a better book on the planet than the Bible to teach these critical issues. How many people do not admit to being a Christian? How many of these “Christians” are teaching their children at home? My basis for my post, was that at least when the Bible was being taught in the schools, children were taught these important values. I find these very values lacking in society today.