Apparently we all secretly want to drive these all day
SALES SLOW FOR HYBRIDS / Gas prices fall, so does federal tax credit and hybrid sales — I don’t think anyone should be surprised that once you are in to a full tilt capitalistic system that “it’s all about the money.” If gas prices were down to a dollar a gallon the streets would be clogged with huge tank-like cars. The 1958 Cadillacs come to mind. 8-9 mpg in the city, gasoline around 27-cents a gallon for gas. It’s a sad indictment.
Carmakers sold 26,249 hybrids in August, the same month the average price of gasoline nationwide hit $3 per gallon.
Since then, gasoline prices have fallen 24 percent, to $2.28 per gallon, and hybrids sales have dropped 31 percent to 18,117 in November, according to Edmunds.com.
This only shows you the short-sightedness of the American consumer. Next week if prices go up, the people who bought SUVs last week will be regretting their purchase, forgetting that they could have done the smart thing in the first place.
It’s not really an indictment of capitalism, as capitalism is just the system that best allows people to do what they want to do rather than what they otherwise have to do.
And the numbers in the article show that hybrid sales are up 28% over the same month [November], last year.
My company is renting my hybrid, a Toyota Prius, because it can afford the car payments.
IOW, for the same monthly payment, I could have chosen almost any SUV or luxury car with 6 cylinders, say up to 40K US$, large choice.
I’ve talked to many a hybrid owner, the choice never rests on the price of gasoline.
IMHO, hybrid sales have dropped simply because us Greeners all have bought / rented one, so the market is reaching saturation.
Making hybrids economical for the average Joe within 5 years would increase sales by broadening the user acceptance base.
California’s HOV lanes is a great idea, for many people the time wasted on the highway is worth more money than the car itself.
My other reason for getting the Prius is to use it as a generator for the office, since it generates 220 VDC, same DC voltage as my rackmount UPS system for the servers. A generator system would have set me back 10k$ (6k for generator, 2k for power regulator, 2k for hookup & parts)
Kinda makes you think the price of petroleum is being manipulated, doesn’t it?
All I remember is that oil was $18 a barrel before the 2000 election. I guess membership in the Midland Petroleum Club pays off.
#5 Of course it is. They don’t even try to hide it. The they in question is OPEC.
#5 – The price is being manipulated?!?!?!?! WOW!?!?! I never would have imagined 🙂
However, I would suggest that stats showing a drop in Hybrid sales and a drop in gas prices are not enough to draw a conclusion from. What else has dropped? What else increased in sales? Is the moon in the seventh house? Is Jupiter aligned with Mars?
Capitalism is the idealogy of the cancer cell, Growth for growths sake. Given that people are affected by it, at some point growth should have some meaning or positive impact on their lives. Rarely it acheives that without using it as a tool.
Capitalism as a tool to greater ends, a good thing.
Capitalism for capitalisms sake is a bad thing.
“My other reason for getting the Prius is to use it as a generator for the office, since it generates 220 VDC, same DC voltage as my rackmount UPS system for the servers. A generator system would have set me back 10k$ (6k for generator, 2k for power regulator, 2k for hookup & parts) ”
Very Clever. As an emergency backup, not long term. Diesel for long term but very clever.
#1 Smartalix – if sales of non-hybrid vehicle had increased while sales of hybrids decreased, your diatribe would be true.
However, let’s work the numbers:
Hybrids sold in August – 26249. This was 1.77% of all vehicle sales. Estimated total for ‘all vehicles’ sold: 1,482,994, give or take.
Hybrids sold in November: 18,117. This was 1.52% of all vehicle sales. Estimated total for ‘all vehicles’ sold: 1,195,855.
So, hybrids dropped by 31% or around 8,000 units.
‘All vehicles’ dropped by 19.5%, or about 287,000 units.
I’d like to see the figures for ‘used car sales’ for the same time period, to see if they rose or fell.
#11: But it is an increase in non-hybrids, in that the decrease in non-hybrids was less than the decrease in hybrids. It’s similar to the logic used to say that a lower than desired increase in spending for a government program is really a decrease.
The price of gasoline is a problem, and taxes need to be added to gasoline to accurately reflect the costs to society. Ergo:
– our dealings (war) in the middle east is based on the concept of stabilizing the flow of oil. This needs to be more accurately reflected in the gas tax to the tune of 10s of billions of dollars.
– pollution – use more gas, in general, you pollute more, which has its real costs (cleanup, health care, possibly global warming)/
– highway maintenance – bigger heavier vehicles generally cause more damage to the infrastructure than smaller ones.
The above issues are all obvious, and are supposed to be addressed by the taxes on gasoline. The problem is that it is way to low to reflect the actual costs, and this needs to be changed immediately.
I don’t know what the exact amount should be, but capitalism has shown time and time again that when subsidies are taken away from “essentials”, we find a way to have our cake and eat it, once again.
Try driving a Prius 600 miles in one day on a freeway @75+ mph. (say from MN to WY). Now try the same drive in something decent sized like an Avalanche. Night & day difference. The Avalanche is a pleasant drive. A small vehicle is barely tolerable at best and white knuckle if it’s windy.
So DUH – Of course Americans only drive small vehicles out of necessity, not want.
Remeber the dust-to-dust cost study, a 9mpg hummer has a lower cost per mile in terms of total ENERGY used in manufacturing, operation, and recycling than any of the current hybrids. A scion xB has the lowest cost.
http://www.thewatt.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1070&mode=nested&order=1&thold=-1
This is where the goverment can help and why the free enterprise system cannot be left completely on it’s own. If it were, we would have pollution levels that kill, oceans w/o fish, monopolies, and a host of problems against the common good.
The above is just another example where we should :
– Mandate big surtax to those wanting to drive these tanks around.
– Provide the above as credit to those buying hybrids
– Tax gasoline to fund research into energy independence efforts
Note that $100B can fund huge mass transit projects here in the US and employ 10’s of thousands of Americans. We flushed $500B in the toilet in rebuilding Iraq and still counting. What’s wrong with this picture?
Forgot : If you want to sell more hybrids, Make a hybrid truck or Suburban, that has no less power and doesn’t cost more. In other words, get away from the prototype go-karts and build something useful.
#14: I used to drive a Toyota Tercel all over the country at 35-38 MPG. It was very comfortable; left my wallet heavier at the end of a trip. I drive a AToyota Tacoma small pickup that gets around with 26-32 MPG (depending on city or highway travel, and whether the A/C’s on or not). Again, my wallet’s much heavier than if I were driving an Avalanche or other big honkin’ SUVs.
SUVs and big 4WD pickups have their uses as 4WD vehicles, but they’re lousy at being economical transportation.
#16,
“This is where the government can help and why the free enterprise system cannot be left completely on it’s own. If it were, we would have pollution levels that kill, oceans w/o fish, monopolies, and a host of problems against the common good.”
You’ve probably never studied the ecological disasters the Soviets left behind have you?
#18 – Your acceptable level of comfort is obviously lower than a lot of ours. Also, can your small truck haul 4 adults with a weeks worth of camping gear and a large trailer easily? If you have that kind of load and you’re doing 75 up a hill can you still accelerate to pass someone?
Getting from point A to point B is a very minor starting point of what a vehicle is supposed to do.
As far as mass transit goes, if you’re living somewhere so densely populated that mass transit works, you’re already living in Hell so I suppose not much else matters at that point.
#20, if I am doing 75 up a hill, I probably dont need to pass anyone. I have a 89 Suburban, that I drive about 8 times a year. I dont mind getting 10mpg during those trips. The rest of the time, I drive something that gets better mileage.
#12, Mike, what are you talking about? There were 287,000 FEWER non-hybrids on the road, remember?
You can’t just count the percentages; you also need to know the actual numbers.
A few years ago, my town became the “Murder Capital” of Canada, based on the “per hundred thousand” comparison.
Four homicides, all by the same person, pushed us ahead of Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal, all of which get more by actual numbers. It’s still a lot safer living here.
And now to go completely tangental (sp?)… of all the hybrids sold, how did that number compare to the number available to be sold?
#19. No, I have not studied Russian Ecological Disasters. Not sure how I possibly missed that but will certainly put it on my to do list.
I’ll assume it has some relationship to the topic.
#22, I don’t think you took my first sentence in context with my second sentence to see that I was not being serious.
#24, Mike, you’re right. Sorry for misunderstanding your meaning.
Just because two things happen at the same time doesn’t mean one caused the other.
Some people aren’t buying the Prius because they’ve figured out the Prius is a miserable, uncomfortable, pretentious little car that uses many, many hazardous chemicals in its creation and use and doesn’t come close to the savings in fuel consumption claimed.
You want to use less fuel overall? Buy a VW diesel. Or convert a diesel to burn used cooking oil.
“Or convert a diesel to burn used cooking oil.”
I was behind a Benz that was apparently running on veg. oil for some time on my way back from Wisc. after the holiday, and while I did notice an odor coming off that thing, it certainly wasn’t as bad as I had imagined I’d hate to be on a highway full of them though..
#20 – As far as mass transit goes, if you’re living somewhere so densely populated that mass transit works, you’re already living in Hell so I suppose not much else matters at that point.
Comment by Mucous — 12/5/2006 @ 10:12 am
That’s the second time you’ve implied that city living is Hell. For you, that might be true… But as is often pointed out out when I sing the praises of city life, that’s a subjective opinion. Living in the sticks is how I define Hell.
I’ll take Chicago or New York over Moose Jaw, MN or French Lick, KY any day of the week.
#26, I did my homework before buying (company lease 4yr) a Prius.
I encourage all hybrids, not just one in particular, because it’s something people can use NOW. In 2 years from now, Generation III of the Prius doubles the mileage, with the same construction.
(Better batteries, stronger electric)
If you don’t like the Prius, for our sakes, get a Civic or Accord hybrid.
What’s a battery pack in a landfill in 10 years compared to TEN TONS of CO & CO2 emissions?
— lesser of two evils —-
So, #26, go ahead spreading the false information OPEC dissiminated, knowing you’re just helping some Shieks line their pockets.
Let’s not forget that the most popular hybrid has passed into the sunsetting of it’s tax benefits- When Toyota passed 60,000 units, the clock started ticking on the tax benefit. It is now less than half of the original refund (currently at around $1500).
That certainly can’t help.