A follow-up to my earlier posting.
Associated Press – November 17, 2006:
LOS ANGELES — The Marine Reserves’ Toys for Tots program has decided to accept a donation of Bible-quoting Jesus dolls, reversing course after saying earlier this week that it couldn’t take them.
“The talking Jesus doll issue has been resolved,” the organization announced on its Web site Wednesday. “Toys for Tots has found appropriate places for these items. We have notified the donor of our willingness to handle this transaction.”
The short note on the Web site did not explain what it would do with the dolls.
I would take the dolls to the nearest landfill.
“I would take the dolls to the nearest landfill.”
A tree shredder might be more appropriate. You wouldn’t want some archaeologist discovering them a few thousand years from now!
#1Improbus
I don’t know if I would go that far. If they make sure that they are going to Christian Children I guess it is ok. It really boils down to the question. “Is it because they care about the kids or do they want to promote Christianity?” In this case, because it appears they will make sure that they go to Christian children, I think it is about the kids and the religion is benign
“It really boils down to the question….”
I disagree. I might donate a toy because my son received two and I want to get rid of one. My intent is not to help the kids, but to clean out my junk. Does that mean that Toys for Tots should not accept the gift?
What if I’m a military nut and donate a bunch of GI-Joes?! What if I think the study of mathematics is in decline so I donate some math puzzle games? I guess I’m not entirely sure why the intent behind the gift should matter.
Ugh. You’re a moron. This issue was resolved days ago. In fact, if you look through your original post’s comments, you’ll see that someone mentioned this fact. Clearly, you don’t give a rat’s ass about your reader’s comments.
Blah, blah, blah, blah….. This site has turned into one of dirty old men posting sex related stories and closet neo-fascist “boo hoo hoo I’m a freaking Christian weenie crybaby. I’m being persecuted for my beliefs, even though more than three-quarters of Americans say they are Christian.”
Oh…. I do feel so sorry for your persecuted ass. I do hope that someday you are in a true minority of people and get to see what persecution is really like.
No more words wasted on you.
There are probably a lot of families who would enjoy these dolls, it’s just a matter of matching them with appropriate recipients. No big deal.
OTOH, these are Marines…the extras could be used as target practice. Duh. đ
–Olo runs to hide from the lightning strike that’s coming his way any moment now…—
“My intent is not to help the kids, but to clean out my junk. ”
Then why not throw it away? Your intent is not just to get rid of your stuff. It serves both of you well you get rid of junk and a kid gets a toy.
“Does that mean that Toys for Tots should not accept the gift?”
Of course not. because your intent is benign. If you do it to promote your religion it is not.
“What if Iâm a military nut and donate a bunch of GI-Joes? ”
Are you doing it to promote war” Or are you promoting or pride in our military? either way it is benign because the child will not know your stance. Where as a Jesus doll your stance is quite clear.
“What if I think the study of mathematics is in decline so I donate some math puzzle games?”
Good for you it shows you care about the education of our children. but also is benign
Now let me ask you.
I give you a gun and you shoot your self dead because you were suicidal.
I could say I say I didn’t know that and no one told me or I could say
Yeah I gave it to him knowing he would kill himself.
Guess which answer might end me up in jail?
Intent always matters!!
This is plot to make a whole generation of poor kids into gaywads.
“Intent always matters!!”
Intent always matters?! Except in the three examples I gave you where it did not, of course.
Talking Jesus quotes seven different phrases, and thanks to the miracle of technology, he is able to say them in either English or Spanish (switch selectable). Press Jesus on his tummy, and hear his words of wisdom for the ages. I tried to find out what verses were chosen for Talking Jesus to say, but I was unable. Here is a link to a promotional site for the doll:
http://www.talkingjesusdoll.org/
I guess we can just be thankful that they don’t give Talking Jesus some of the awful characteristics they’ve given to other dolls this year, like Barbie’s Pooping Dog. Kids have enough on their mind memorizing Bible verses, without having to check Jesus’ underwear to see if it needs changing.
#9 SN
YOUR INTENT WAS BENIGN!!!!!
Did I write that enough? You may have read what I posted but you clearly didn’t understand it.
You may have intended to do it for one reason but it was negated by the fact that the intent was not carried to it’s end.
With a Jesus doll the intent is carried all the way through!!!
I want one. Because,
“I don’t care if it rains or freezes
‘long as I got my plastic Jesus
Glued to the dashboard of my car….”
Brought to you by the Pink and Pleasant Plastic Icon Company,
Del Rio, Texas
SN – you’re missing the point he was making:
To clarify:
I might donate a toy because my son received two and I want to get rid of one.
You claim your intent is not to help – yet if it really wasn’t to help you wouldn’t donate it. Your intent here is to donate, the motivator for that action is the other intent of junk clearing. Not a good example.
The other two aren’t quite the same though, and I think you are right about them – both those examples are donating because of a specific agenda they want to push – just like religious agendas this a bad thing…
…though it has nothing to do with if they should accept them.
“YOUR INTENT WAS BENIGN!!!!!”
So intent always matters, except when its benign. So, if I, as an atheist, gave a talking jesus doll to a Christian relative as a gift, is my intent the same as the intent of a Christian who gave the same gift?
You say that the intent of the doll givers is not benign. First, I don’t think it really matters, as I already explained. Second, I think you’re making an incorrect assumption as there are plenty of Christian kids who would love a talking jesus doll for Christmas.
“If they make sure that they are going to Christian Children I guess it is ok.”
Yeah, and if the syringes make it to the drug addicts’ kids and the guns go to the terrorists’ kids, that’s ok too, right? These are the same tactics big tobacco would use, if it were legal for them. Get ’em young, and you’ve got ’em forever.
The fact that “Sanity Prevails” preceeds this headline makes me consider unsubscribing from this blog. Religion, particularly Christianity, is mass insanity at its finest, and is eroding civilization faster than ever.
Flamers, feel free to have the last word, because I’m not reading any further posts here. It won’t change the facts anyway.
“though it has nothing to do with if they should accept them”
You raise an interesting point. Toys for Tots is under no duty to accept all toys donated. Like, if I dropped off a moldy steak or used hypodermic needles, I would certainly hope they’d be rejected.
What I think some people are not getting is that Christians love jesus. They cherish him. They worship him. They’d give their lives for him! Even as an atheist myself, I recognize that a Christian child would LOVE to get this doll.
Based on that, I see no reason for the organization to reject it.
#13 Gregory
No. On all of the examples the intent is not known by the recipient therefore benign because they will not result in that intents purpose.
#16 “The fact that âSanity Prevailsâ preceeds this headline makes me consider unsubscribing from this blog”
If you’ve read any of my postings here you’d know that I (the original poster of both stories) am an atheist and have nothing good to say about Christianity. In fact a Christian hacker once deleted every single one of my comments from this blog to shut me up. Seriously!
But this issue has nothing to do with Christianity and everything to do with a perverted view of multiculturalism and politically correct thought.
Read my comments here, especially 15 and 17 to know why I think Toys for Tots was wrong in this instance. (Well, was wrong, until they changed their mind.)
The comments on this site scare me and explain the constant moral decline of america. There are a lot of claimed athiests and agnostics on this site that sure seem to be scared of a Jesus that they say doesn’t exist! Do you really think Christians promote Christianity out of some kind of self serving effort. Do you think that they give out prizes for the number of converts at the annual Christian awards show. Or could it be that these people have a life changing hope that they really want to share with all humanity out of love. I hope you guys can man up a little bit if your that scared of a talking Jesus doll!
#15 SN
“So intent always matters, except when its benign”
No! Intent always matters! It just so happens in those instances the intent was negated by the fact that know would know your intent. I never said it didn’t matter.
“if I, as an atheist, gave a talking ………..”
I wouldn’t know what your intent was unless you told me. Thank you for proving my point. Would your intent, based on your relationship with your family, not be clear to them, the recipient? Would you give another atheist the same gift for the same reason?
“You say that the intent of the doll givers is not benign. First, I donât think it really matters”
Yes it does. The purpose of Toy for Tots is to provide needy children with gifts for the holiday. It is not so you can prey upon people in need to prostitute a religion!
“I think youâre making an incorrect assumption as there are plenty of Christian kids who would love a talking Jesus doll for Christmas.”
I made no assumptions about what kids want! I think it is ok if they make sure they give them to Christian kids.
#17
“Based on that, I see no reason for the organization to reject it. ”
Me either as long as they make sure it goes to a Christian child. Did you even read my first post that you commented on. It makes me wonder if you just like to argue with people who in general find agreement with you.
#16 – The fact that âSanity Prevailsâ preceeds this headline makes me consider unsubscribing from this blog.
If that’s all it takes, you must have a really creamy center… đ
“Me either as long as they make sure it goes to a Christian child.”
Well while it appears we still disagree on some issues, we completely agree on the underlying issue. So I’ll shut up.
Do you really think Christians promote Christianity out of some kind of self serving effort.
yes.
J & SN
Damn you guys are making some very good points. I’m going with the guy that can’t write out his name more then an initial (or two).
#17 – – Even as an atheist myself, I recognize that a Christian child would LOVE to get this doll.
Based on that, I see no reason for the organization to reject it.
Comment by SN â 11/17/2006 @ 10:05 am
Is there really any such thing as a “Christian” child? Or can we call these indocrinated children? At what point did the child apply reason and critical thinking to deep and profound theological questions? Did the child choose Christianity after extensive comparative research into the world’s many religious dogmas? Or, did the parent say “Jesus loves you.” and in the niave and gullible mind of a child who looks upon the parent with unblinking trust did the child add Jesus to the list of facts about the world they’ve learned since birth?
Thiests aren’t formed in a vaccuum. Some folks join a church or leave a church or convert later in life, but the majority of beliefs aren’t authentic. They are handed down and absorbed without question. Maybe that’s not harmful… But is sure seems to be in the case of fundamentalism. In Islamlic fundamentalism where women are murdered because they are rape victims, it seems harmful. In certain Christian communities when children die of illnesses because parents believe God will intervene and refuse to use medical science or doctors (which I consider both abuse and neglect and think should be prosecuted) it is clearly harmful.
If you aren’t part of a solution, you are part of a problem… I think blind faith is a problem, and a tragedy. I only wish there were a way to rescue these lost children from the tyranical grip of the church.
#24
I second that!
“Is there really any such thing as a âChristianâ child?”
Tod and Rod Flanders?!
Seriously, your reasoning is flawed as you can make the exact same argument against nearly any toy. Does the little boy really want a toy gun or is he being brainwashed by the NRA and the industrial military establishment? Does the girl really want a Barbie or is she being deluded by Western/European standards of beauty?
According to your arguments, kids have to wait until they’re adults before they get to pick what toys they want!
#28
LOL
I may be wrong but I think Toys for Tot’s prohibits guns as gifts. oh the irony!
Jesus, Guns, and Barbie. That about sums up Americans. No?
“I may be wrong but I think Toys for Totâs prohibits guns as gifts….”
God that is funny!