Cave man quality, no?
KRT Wire | 11/15/2006 | Researchers begin to decode Neanderthal genome — If you’ve travelled around the world enough you know that the Neanderthal genes are still among us.
The ancient DNA is time-worn and fragmented, but a team led by geneticist Eddy Rubin of the Joint Genome Institute managed to salvage 65,000 genetic units and show that more than 99.5 percent of the Neanderthal genome is identical to modern humans. The research appears this week in Science…
Though the sequence is just a tiny fraction of the more than 3 billion units that make up the whole genome, it is enough to tell that modern humans and Neanderthals began to split more than 700,000 years ago and evolved into distinct species about 370,000 years ago.
There has been a lot of speculation about whether Neanderthals and humans interbred during the tens of thousands of years they coexisted in Europe before Neanderthals disappeared around 30,000 years ago.
“We see no signs of that,” Rubin said. “We cannot clearly say that this never occurred but from the data we have there is not evidence for that.”
But a study published earlier this month found a gene involved in human brain size that could have come from interbreeding with Neanderthals around 37,000 years ago.
Based on the fraction of the Neanderthal genome that has been sequenced, it is clear that genetic mixing did not occur on a large scale, said University of Chicago geneticist Bruce Lahn who led the brain gene research.
But he thinks there may have been enough interbreeding for humans to pick up a few genes from Neanderthals, such as the brain-size gene he studied which is present today in more than two thirds of the world’s population.
Then there is this 7 foot tall boxer, Russian heavyweight Nikolai Valuev
don’t be so hard on yourself
That stupid spam filter you have on is censoring my posts again! UGH!
This story is very deceptive. First, there is absolutly no proof that the bones are “Neanderthal bones” Just another sad attempt, that in time will be found inaccurate.
Quote: The ancient DNA is time-worn and fragmented.
Though the sequence is just a tiny fraction of the more than 3 billion units that make up the whole genome, it is enough Says who?
Man did not evolve over millions of years people, God the giver of life, created the first humans on the sixth day of creation!
“Guess what?”
What are we supposed to guess? That “Neanderthal genes are still among us.”? So they undoubtedly are. From one point of view, the lifetime of genes could be said to be longer than the lifetime of their “carriers” – that being the succession of individuals of the particular species in which they exist at any one time. That’s the whole point of Professor Dawkins’ recent “pilgramage to the dawn of life” –
http://www.amazon.com/Ancestors-Tale-Pilgrimage-Dawn-Evolution/dp/061861916X
But it does not follow at all that “Neanderthals and humans interbred”. Allow me to quote from the book:
So how about these similarities between the DNA of modern humans and chimpanzees? Do you suppose that indicates that humans and chimpanzees have interbred? And do you imagine you could prove the point by putting up a photo of Bill Clinton?
The similarity in the DNA comes from the common descent we share with Neanderthal Man, just as we share a common descent with chimpanzees (and bacteria for the matter of that). We simply don’t know enough yet to say whether or Cro Magnon Man interbred with the Neandertahlers at some point after they had become separate lines of descent. Rubin himself acknowledges that in the quotation you yourself give:
All we have left is speculation.
Based on personal experience with Homo sapiens, my guess is that many Neanderthal ended up on a spit over a crackling fire.
if you look for it, you’ll find it.
isn’t that what they say?
besides, haven’t we already determined that many genes are dormant, and changes come from activation or interaction of genes? so why would it be amazing if we had similar genes to something else, the real question is how similar are the activations or interactions?
Why oh why has Nikolai not been cast as a villain in a Bond movie?!
Ugh…
There’s a lot more to this story. The Times had a more complete article, including a link to the story in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. First, we know that Neanderthals and Cro Magnon man lived alongside each other — like across the street from each other, that close — for a hell of a long time. Thousands of years, in fact. And as of September, new evidence was found in Gibralter that showed Neanderthals lived 2,000 years longer than previously believed. The Basque people in Spain go back longer than just about any other group of people, except maybe Australian aborigines, and they once lived on the other side of valleys across from Neanderthals. The evidence is in for this.
What the Kansas City Star article misses is what genome was studied, and it’s one that regulates brain size. Neanderthals had larger brains than modern humans. Doesn’t mean they were smarter or dumber; we only use something like 11% of our noggins as it is. But the gene that regulates brain size can only be traced in modern human lines back to 37.000 years ago. It doesn’t appear prior to that. It does appear in the Neanderthal line. Today, it expresses itself in 70% of the population. That suggests that it was introduced — through interbreeding — and was a successful adaptation, so successful that it was positively selected in future generations. Ta-da!
This isn’t the only gene that’s being traced back to the Neanderthal line. Other genes that we have but still don’t know enough about are things like the genes for red hair and genetic causes for depression.
Neanderthals lived in Europe for some 400,000 years. They disappeared 28,000 years ago. Cro Magnon man entered Neanderthal territory 45,000 years ago. That’s 17,000 years of neighborliness. And settlements of both peoples have been found near enough to each other, and dated to the same period of time, that they could have borrowed a cup of mammoth from each other.
The rest of the Neanderthal genome will be sequenced in about 18 months. Then we’ll know more. Ain’t computers great?
#3, Higghawker,
There is more evidence that the bones are Neanderthal then there is that “God” created the world in six days. Unless, of course, you have evidence that no other scientists has.
I think they should return all the Neanderthal bones to the Basques for proper burial. They have all the same racial characteristics.
I knew a Basque boy in high school. He was kinda dense and, yes, he was a knuckle-dragger. He did well on the wrestling team because of his incredible strength.
His poor sister! I don’t know if she ever found someone to marry her!
#3
Yikes. Just another one claiming the old part of the bible is factual. It’s such a horrid peace of malware even most xstians don’t stand by it. What else do you take as real from that appalling peace of literature?
On the other hand, you’re in “good” company. About 50% of the US population do oppose there is such a thing as evolution. This 50 % will rather believe in fairy tales than science.
Grow up. The “Father” has left the building.
#11 – I always wondered where the statistics come from – as in who/where were these people? because theres a lot of … well, morons… in the southern usa, and religion is very prevalent there – and we all know that stupidity and blind faith go hand in hand, so….
And I think a frame from Clan of the Cave Bear would be better, that russian guy looks suspiciously like a moden russian, theres no pronounced brow, or jutting jaw
God didn’t die. There never was a God. Get with the 21st Century people.
12. The Southern US doesnt have the corner on ignorance. Rather harsh wouldnt you say.
13. Ok, we get it, your an aetheist. Try not to put other people down for not thinking like you. I’m not religious either, I believe space aliens seeded this planet, and we are so much cattle to them, does that make me crazy?
Um, well maybe just a little.
#3 #9 define day.
#3 tell us all what day God created the sun.
I grow weary of people bickering over the question of literal days.
I’m not saying creation (or evolution) didn’t happen, I’m just saying I don’t think it is quite as literal as many people read it.
#13 .. it is getting old, and I don’t see people being convinced by your delivery… didn’t you study psych?
(not that anyone here convinces anyone of anything)
Here’s the creationist theory of how the Dvorak blog came into existance:
One day, there was no Dvorak Blog, the next day the Dvorak Blog came into existence fully formed and debugged.
#15 – #16
No one is convinced… I’m the natural result of the extreme right’s push to force thier mythology based values on my life and the lives of my family. I’m not pushing my agenda on you. I’m pushing back against Christianity’s invasion.
There are no billboards on the freeway here declaring a woman’s right to choose, but I’m told at minimum twice a day that Indiana, who recieves my tax dollars, is the Right To Life State. (an ironic position for a state with the death penalty)
I have thumpers trying to put creationism into my son’s classroom. I’m gonna be old someday. My son’s generation will be my caretakers. I have a vested interest in both protecting my son from their propaganda and protecting science from the systematic attack waged upon it, but also I have a vested interest in future adults not being stupid – so no creationism crap in the schools, thanks…
Richard Dawkins is getting a few pages of press these days because he’s a notable scientist who just wrote a book. But he doesn’t have his own show like the dozens of holy rollers who inundate the airwaves.
Our representatives in Washington frequently remind me that God has chosen this nation and is all warm and fuzzy about people dying all around the globe.
I don’t believe in Bhudda either… But no Bhuddist has ever jumped in my face and tried make me change my life to please Bhudda… Thus, today is the first and last time I’ll mention Bhuddism except to say… I like Bhuddists. I’ve thought about being one, but it just isn’t right for me.
I got rid of the car that had the pro-choice bumper sticker on it (I talked about that in another post) and I have a mini-van now because it’s useful and I’m secure in my manhood on it. It bears a Darwin Fish, but no other political or religiously themed emblems.
I own a copy of the The Only Good Christian is Dead by Scraping Feotus Off The Wheel, but that’s because it has a kickin’ percussion track and I love 80’s punk music, but I don’t load it onto my van’s CD player and cruise the burbs with the volume turned up… I’m vocal here because its on topic here…
I’ve seen no evidence that anyone in the community of people who long for a theocratic dictatorship (aka: Values Voters) are in any way interested in my feelings, and since I don’t have a Jesus to remind me to turn the other cheek, I’ve decided not to care about their feelings either. I’m a grunt in the culture war. Sometimes my mission is to yell. It’s what I do.
Now… Post number 3 is the first post in this thread related to this thread, and it is a declarative statement that man was made by God on the 6th day. My post is a response. You want to know when I will stop posting things that offend Christians? I will as soon as Christians stop offending me.
OFTLO-Hey, I was just yankin your chain. Most of the time I agree with you. And if you think you’ve been ostricized, what about ME? I believe in space aliens!!! I’m done with Christians too. Once a Christian told me I was going to hell because (at the time) I was a Catholic!!! She said a Catholics didnt believe in Christianity, whatever.
But seriously, Buddhism? Dont think I could do it, fashion-wise.
#19 – But don’t you think the sandles and robes would be comfortable?
I know you weren’t holding my feel to the fire, and I have a lot of respect for Wok as well, but it’s a valid question that deserves a long answer (that may potential open my up for criticism 🙂 )
#12
It’s common knowledge that statistics come from Hell 😉 NOT
But the numbers are floating around, and I get references all the time. Directing you to one site and kaboom; “there it is!” is kinda hard. However, if you’re really interested I’ll be more than happy to give some links.
But the fact of the matter is, nearly every other American, almost 50%, reject evolution as an explanation for life on earth. Instead they believe earth and all life on it were created less than 10.000 years ago.
This baffles me beyond words. And it should encourage anyone interested in science and scientific methods to speak up against the lunacy that is behind those almost 50 %.
We are doing pretty well in destroying this planet we live on. And where do 50 % go to solve the problems? In church! They pray an leave it up to their god. A god that is nothing but an illusion for many of us. It’s been no sign of their god doing anything to anyone. Other than make them feel good of course. And the church rich. But saving our planet? Nope. Won’t happen. “In God We Trust”. Yeah, my a$$. That’ll help a lot. A really, really lot.
So, should OFTLO and the rest of us feel sorry if we say there is no god, and there never was? Absolutely not. It is purely informative. It’s actually based on evidence, or lack there of, that any god exist. There is no more proof any god exists than there is for little green men. (Sorry Sundog).
So, unless some crucial info about god, green men or any deity shows up, expect atheists to speak up. The time where it’s not proper to criticize faith related issues, is long gone.
Roger- hey its OK. I dont expect anyone to believe that others may have been here long before we were. Even though the circumstantial evidence ( sightings by many, many highly trained and impartial observers ) is somewhat overwhelming. Its a taboo subject. To me its like trying to deny the dinosaurs, or a quark. Cant really prove it either way. It comes down to a belief system, until *gasp* you actually see one yourself. (not a quark or dinosaur, I’m not THAT crazy.)
Sundog, “I’m not THAT crazy”
Good to hear, and I didn’t think so 😀
And, you are not alone. Quite a few share your views.
If you want, do a search for “Point of Inquiry” in iTunes (for podcasts). Get the show from 2/17/2006. I found it very interesting. I warn you it does not support your belief, but it deals with it in a very straight forward way. Me thinks 😉
23. I’m open to other ideas. I’ll check it out
OFTLO, that was a good post. Well said too.
I am proud of my little corner of Indiana. Our county went entirely Democrat except the Coroner and the Prosecutor. This has really set the bible thumpers on their butt that their will was rejected.
Sundog, a couple of your posts here have been very well done. Although I don’t agree the earth was populated by alien visitors, it is an intriguing thought and worthy of consideration.
Roger, also well thought out post.
Having read much speculation about the fate of Neanderthals and the fact that researchers have already been able to check that they contained 99.5% of the genetic material the present human race contains; I am impelled to state that I saw a Neanderthal – at least a person who looked a great deal more like a Neanderthal than a homo sapiens, on the London Tube around 1948.
So what do you do if you see a bulky, shortish Neanderthal like figure, dressed in conventional clothes; the only particularly distinguishing feature being the extraordinary like ness of his facial elements to the generally accepeted encyclopaedic descriptions and attempts to depict features from skulls discovered in many areas – particularly Europe and Russia.
At the time, as I had to leave the tube in order to keep an appointment, there was nothing I could think of which should be done, except to keep my mouth shut – for I would undoubtedly be disbelieved or told that I had been mistaken.
I happen to do a lot of painting, mainly in acrylics – not around the time in question – but I do know from experience that I have an accurate eye for detail . I can only state that this is true – ever since; knowing that there was at least one living example (in the late 40’s) of genetic descent from many thousands of years earlier. Why not ? It does not seem unlikely to me – merely singular.
Anyway I have recorded the fact and it may encourage others to note and possibly, with modern digital cameras, to photograpn anyone with a large head having a low sloping forehead, set on a thick neck, a forward thrust facial structure, heavy, protuberent brows, darkish skin and a relatively small chin. The individual I saw had sunken eyes, dark in colour, but this may have been incontrast to the heavy brows. He was early middle – aged as far as one could tell – but I have no proof of this passing moment and why should anyone believe me.
I do hope that the modern dna tests will enable proof of the possibility of this survival to have happened in practice when two people carrying the same gene have a child which resembles a Neanderthal forbear – after all there are quite a number of very different styles of humanoid,, all accepted as such but often very dissimillar in looks, from the early inhabitants of Australia, to Occidental races, several distictive European and middle Eastern
types, to mention but a few.
I have, once or twice approached individuals who are concerned with tracing early human forbears with this story – but none has bothered to answer. As I was born in 1924, I can now make a fool of myself without much concern. Good wishes to anyone interested. I really have no more to say. There is nothing further to contribute..Paul