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This “White House Advisor” has always been all over the media condemning everyone — especially gays — while praising the Lord.
Toronto Daily News – Church Leader Quits After Gay Sex, Meth Claims – US evangelist accused of using male prostitute services — Anyone who studies American history knew this sort of thing was coming. Hypocrisy reigns. As a friend of mine likes to say, “Only sinners go to church.” If this is nothing more than a smear campaign I’d say it was risky since this guy runs in some powerful circles. Let’s watch this unfold. If all this is actually orchestrated by the Democrats, then it looks as if they’ve finally found a Karl Rove rival. Who is it?
Pastor Ted Haggard, the president of the American Association of Evangelicals, has resigned due to allegations of engaging in homosexual intercourse with a prostitute.
Ted Haggard, who runs one of the largest churches in the US and regularly consults the White House on policy matters, had been paying a male prostitute to have sex with him about once a month for the past three years, a man who claims to be the male escort told a Denver radio station
Mike Jones, a male escort, alleged that Haggard, whom he knew as “Art”, paid for sex with him during trysts which had been taking place between them on an almost monthly basis over the course of the previous three years.
Further, Jones said Haggard used methamphetamine before their sexual encounters to heighten his experience.
When did the Republicans get so gay? From what I can tell this is the guy pushing evangelical religion into the Air Force Academy. Now he’s gay? What gives?
related links:
Rocky Mountain News Coverage
CNN Discussion
Click on CNN video interview with Haggard — He denies everything: says he is happily married.
Ted Haggard Homepage
Harper’s Article on America’s Most Powerful Megachurch
Religious Bullying at the Air Force Academy
More on Air Force Academy
Interview with Jones About Haggard who Apparently called himself “Art.”
Note of irony. Here’s an article where Haggard is preaching about how religion belongs in politics. Be careful what you wish for.
Update for all the doubters!: CNN interviewed Ted Haggard and he admits calling Mike Jones for a “massage” and to “buy meth.”
Yet another update:
For those who worry about anyone “judging” Pastor Ted — his church just fired him. Here’s the .pdf of its press release.
Last update, we promise!: Haggard admits being “guilty of sexual immorality” and stated, “I am a deceiver and a liar.”
Haggard is a graduate from Oral Roberts University.
Hey #120:
You said: “So, let’s not forget the important issue here, that Christianity might be good for some in the comfort of their home. But to let it have any political impact what so ever, is totally wrong.”
No, let’s not forget the important issue here. It is a good thing the the Founding Fathers had the foresight to design our constitution to protect us from people like you, who would shut down free speech and freedom of conscience, and limit freedom generally.
I think the world has enough small-minded, petty dictator-wannabes (no to mention actual dictators with real power) telling other people what to think, don’t you? Why do you want to be another? Just like Haggard, you are a hypocrite who can’t change his stripes.
Hey #122
You’re funny. I love the freedom of speech and all that goes with it.
What I don’t love is when illogical faith has impact on people who don’t share the faith.
I tried to be subtle but the cool Aid must be ruining your liberal brains. The person I was referring to was Congressman Gerry Studs
Gerry Studds had sex with one page and made inappropriate advances on two others. he admitted it..He refused to apologize for it. He turned his back on the House of Representatives and rejected the censure vote of his fellow members
And then he stayed in Congress, reelected with the full support of the
Democrat leadership of the House and the Democrat Party, serving six
additional terms until he retired after the 1996 elections. He was
even given a committee chairmanship (thanks to Nancy Pelosi) and was honored by having a National Marine Sanctuary named after him.
By the way he was a Pedofile and the democrats who didn’t do anything about it are hypcrites.
Hey RBG, do you ever get tired of the “but they do it too” excuse for high-profile radical right-wingers who pose as conservatives (they’re not) and loudly claim moral superiority until they’re caught? I don’t find “they do it too” or “they did it first” compelling logic.
Okay, just to save you trouble, here are your next arguments all spelled out for you: Jesse Jackson Jesse Jackson Jesse Jackson Jesse Jackson Jesse Jackson Jesse Jackson Jesse Jackson Jesse Jackson Jesse Jackson Jesse Jackson Jesse Jackson Jesse Jackson
I’m in agreement with RGB & Pekuliar. The issue is morality in general, not in degree. Liberals seem to celebrate and defend their morally corrupt leaders, while Conservatives kick them out as quickly as possible. Haggard did some bad things both morally and ethically and should be punished for them. Doubly so because he was in a position of authority. There is corruption on both sides, but to defend one kind of moral and ethical corruption while attacking another sounds a lot like the pot calling the kettle black.
Biblical morality seems to be very much a sliding scale, as even a casual reader of that book knows. Sexual behaviors that Christians today find abhorrent were openly approved by Yahweh in Old Testament times. Some of the most iconic, righteous men of God had polygamous marriages and/or concubines. While Yahweh approved of it at the time, modern day Christians would harshly condemn those same people today, according to enlightened Christian standards. I’m not sure exactly why or when Yahweh flip-flopped on the subject of sex and marriage (perhaps Christians know), but the fact is that the rules of “morality” have not been constant through the years.
The one thing that has always been taboo is preaching one set of rules while living quite another.
#127 – Morality is used to benefit the people in power – if a viewpoint changes, so will the majority view about said morality – welcome to human society at its best
So Haggard finally came out of the closet…
According to the news: “Ted Haggard confessed on Sunday to a “lifelong” sexual problem, and said he was “a deceiver and a liar.”
“There is part of my life that is so repulsive and dark that I have been warring against it all my life,…” ”
The guy is probably pretty down at the moment. So is his family, friends and people who used to believe in his rants.
In retrospect; Wouldn’t it have been better for him, when he realized he had this gay or bi file preferences, to accept it and try to adjust accordingly?
I think it would have been better for him.
But as he chose to live by old scriptures, he chose to hate himself instead. And now he’s dragging all around him down with him.
Reminds me of part of a poem going like:
Live while there is life to live
Love while there is love to give
Makes you wonder how the bible have influenced Haggard’s living of life and love life, doesn’t it?
83. – Interesting point on learning the language of faith – I would say that Christians should pay more attention to the language of reason though – the two are not incompatible
120 – you’re right – being Christian doesn’t prevent anyone from committing any sin … in fact, one could even say, that being Christian, it is expected that they should sin some time in their life – after all one of the basic tenants of Christianity is that man is imperfect, and cannot even approach perfection under his/her own power … Haggard just happened to fall harder and more publicly than most people … I’m really not interested in condemning him – he’s shown himself to be a hypocrite and a liar – big deal – everyone is, on some level – I pity the man
127. And look where the multiple wives got them – Jacob’s two were constantly fighting, Solomon’s 700 made him turn his back on his prior faith, much to his later dismay … ect – this is stepping out on a limb here, but I’m pretty sure there was no official position on polygamy put out till the New Testament – at the very depths of history (talking from a Biblical view here) polygamy could even be neccesary, when you had a small enough population that any difference between male and female births would significantly tilt the population (I’m thinking immediately after Creation, Noah’s flood, and the dispersement of the nations at the tower of Babel)
oh, and if anyone is interested, I put a post about this on my blog – click the link on my name – basic point is the same as my response to 120
this is just the tip of the Gay Republican iceberg …
http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2006/11/rnc_accepts_mon.html
I didn’t judge anybody. “if” he does not repent, i.e. live life as a lie and hurt those around him. I said nothing of Jews, Rastas, Budhists, Moslems, Adventists, or anyone else, mind you, though some of you seem to want to slander anybody who professes faith with the exclusivism crap. Any body who makes the slightest effort to be decent to others deserves another chance, at the least; hell, in my opinion, is reserved for those that have fooled themselves into thinking that being controlled by endless rules and a power structure and not having to think is in fact heaven. If, after this experience, Haggart continues to be full of malice and self hatred, what do you think his vision of heaven is, exactly? That’s the point of everything I said; he is judged by the standard he judges others by, and thus I do not judge him, he does.
110. Your notion is as wrong as it would be to invalidate the police and courts because there are followers and leaders therein who do not practice what they preach.
112. Oh, no. Not both of them! Guess if you’re going to be humorous about it, I’m going to have to agree with you.
113. Well it wasn’t exactly the ear of the Presidents they had, but where does Lewinsky and Kennedy’s Judith Exner fit into that philosophy? You present a strong argument for complete unfettered wiretapping by the President.
117. Do you think the Republicans gave Foley the boot from the party? He’s now free to join the natural party that best defends the rights of homosexuals.
125. The argument is compelling if the lesson is about hypocrisy.
131. A guy found to be unsavory donated money to a Republican fund. I missed the stat – was his one of a million donations or two million received? That’s somehow supposed to show the character of all conservatives? Too easy, we’ll get our buddy Ted Haggard to donate to his favorite liberal cause.
112. Not.
RBG
Haggard is an excellent example of how the distorted ideology of American Bored Again evangelicals led him to turn his back on his natural sexuality.
The belief system he accepted as a substitute for reality was so perverse that he thought of himself as a sinner before he was an ordinary human being.
Oh well, it was the same with slavery and racism, with male supremacy, with national supremacy [imagine being supreme because of what piece of dirt was beneath the spot where you were born] — all the foolishness and self-deception resulting from fear and ignorance.
It will all fade away with time and education. Too bad we have to suffer it, now — when we’re capable of better.
#133 RGB
Yes it was the ear of the president. Speaking to the president or a presidential advisor on a weekly basis is considered have the ear of the president He peddled a great number of votes. What exactly did Lewinsky and Exner peddle except sex? Did either of them admit to committing a felony? Do you have any evidence they were trying to influence policy? But I digress…….
The point is both of the examples you bring up have been more than talked about and used to tarnish the name of those presidents so why is it not fair for us to do the same in this instance? Is it because this president is a Republican?
This President has associated with a man who has admitted to committing a felony repeatedly. In addition he is an admitted deceiver and liar. This man gave advise to the President on a weekly basis. I think it is much more relevant, but not as exciting, than a woman who give a president a blow job!
RGB When you lye down with dogs you wake up with fleas. I recommend you pick up a collar!
#130 Bruce IV, I think I can agree with one of your points — polygamy is its own punishment 😉 Also, seeing your mention of Solomon’s 700 wives suddenly made me flash on The 700 Club. Do you suppose that Pat Robertson’s TV show is named in honor of Solomon’s many wives?
Headline: “Pat Robertson Celebrates Polygamy!” hehe
135. A great man once said “…because a good judge of a person is the company they keep!”
A good leader listens to all points of view.
RBG
#109 – From the URL provided by RBG
“The possibility that an illicit relationship has occurred is alarming to us and to millions of others,” Dobson said.
“He will continue to be my friend, even if the worst allegations prove accurate,” he continued. “Nevertheless, sexual sin, whether homosexual or heterosexual, has serious consequences.”
The nerve of you people. What we are yammering about is hypocracy. None of us, on the left, or on the rational right (a small group, it seems) care that Ted is gay. I hope he comes to terms with it, finds a nice man, and settles down. What offends me about Dobson (among a million other things) is that he really thinks this sexual encounter is actually any of his goddamn business or the business of a million other busybody ignorant Xian tightasses. Except where rape or exploited children are involved, there is no such thing as sexual sin.
And for #106 from you…
First of all your “one of our guys” happens to be referring to a president and two presidential candidates (Hart & Jackson). You do see a slight difference here, yes?
Yes I do. Hart was a candidate for President, but only held the office of Senator. Unlike Teddy, Hart did not hold sway over millions of voters (outside his district), swindle millions from dupes, not did he make morally absolutist statements against gays then have gay sex with a prostitute. Gary Hart had an affair with an adult. Teddy bought a schedule ! controlled substance and entered into contract arrangement for sex. Two actual criminal acts.
And Jackson was a primary candidate in the 80s, never a serious one, and many years later when his scandle emerged it cost him a great deal of mainstream support and undermined his stature as a civil rights leader.
Both men were crucified in the media and damaged by their actions. So what’s your point?
138 Except where rape or exploited children are involved, there is no such thing as sexual sin.
Agreed.
“Consenting adults” pretty-much covers it, to my way of thinking.
Too bad Ted doesn’t see it that way:
http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7005420203
There’s a part of my life that is so repulsive and dark that I have been warring against it for all of my adult life,…
He fights to suppress his own feelings, and to make sure others suppress similar ones as well? 🙁
How will this affect the debate on whether homosexuality is really an orientation, or just a “selfish choice”?
#139 There’s a part of my life that is so repulsive and dark that I have been warring against it for all of my adult life,…
He fights to suppress his own feelings, and to make sure others suppress similar ones as well? 🙁
its called projection, and is a pretty common behavior where people ‘project’ their own ‘faults’ onto others. it would clearly explain the passion with which he preached against his own behavior.
I don’t think it will affect the debate.
138. Dobson’s a better man than me if he sticks with Haggard. Maybe it has something to do with the distasteful concept of life-long friendship.
“…there is no such thing as sexual sin.” So you’re ok with sex with dead guys and animals then?” I guess I really don’t have much of a point to offer you about hypocrisy concerning moral standards expected in the nation’s highest office.
RBG
#141
“So you’re ok with sex with dead guys and animals then?”
Dude, you’re running out of arguments…
#141 – Well, if you want you delve into the absurd, I’ll clarify for you… There is no such thing as sexual sin when sex occurs between two consenting adults…
I can understand your confusion. You’ve likely been fed the right wing propaganda all your life, thus you’d naturally believe that I, a liberal, am a big fan of beastiality and necrophilia… But I assure you, those pamphlets are not actually true.
In the future I’ll use “crystal clarity” rather than just run of the mill clarity as my standard for professing a position on sexual morality.
#103 –
Okay… I know why it was deleted and I apologize… (but for the record, I was being honest)
143. Hey, you never know around here.
138. “None of us, on the left, or on the rational right (a small group, it seems) care that Ted is gay.”
Uh-huh.
“I hope he comes to terms with it, finds a nice man, and settles down.”
That will disappoint his wife and 5 children.
RBG
138 – your view of sexual sin and Dr. Dobson’s are quite different – to judge him by your standard (and not his) doesn’t seem to prove hypocrisy to me – beside that point, I would say that you are right – Ted Haggard’s sexual activity is not any of Dr. Dobson’s business – but neither is it any of the mainstream media’s (or ours) – this whole issue is about one man (albeit a famous, powerful man) who couldn’t live up to his own standard, and got caught in a lie. Dr. Dobson has more right than any of us to comment, as he was a personal friend of the man, and a respected voice for the same community (fundamentalist Christianity) as Haggard – from what I have heard, he is actually taking a fairly moderate, reasonable position.
posting again for fun – perhaps we can bump it to 150 comments!!!
#145 – That will disappoint his wife and 5 children.
RBG
You think they weren’t disappointed when he had sex with and smoked crystal meth with a male prostitute?
What I’d like to ask a fundamentalist here, if here is any, is:
What’s your take on your god’s part in all this?
Did he lean back and let Haggard play it out?
Did he actually create Haggards desires, like in a form of experiment?
Is Haggard sacrificed a la Jesus?
Did he at all have any saying in Haggards acts?
Finally, Haggard played out his homosexual behavior for about three years. That should be like a sure ticket to Hell as I understand.
Will this certain ticket to Hell be canceled whenever/if Haggard is ready to ask for forgiveness to the almightiness?
Additional to #149
Of course, any other believer in the holy scriptures can reply. I am honestly curios to hear what you think/believe.
Do you think that any of the thousands of closeted men and women who don’t give well to their wives/husbands and fool around on the side are a -positive- to family values, is that right? And I suppose that you think that preaching against something and then turning around and doing it in the most vile manner possible is a good thing, cause at least they are discouraging others from doing it, eh? Don’t you see, people, this movement has brandished hypocrisy like a sword. and used it to vilify and scapegoat upon others with their standards for years. Contrast this with Jesus, who, with truth and humility, sought to bring people to love and forgiveness as a way of relating to one another. In other words, though it screams otherwise in the shrillest of tones, this evangelical movement (and its attached political organ) is actually virulently anti-Christ, as it is against everything Christ taught. This is the lesson of this sordid tale, and it is one we would be well to learn.
BTW, this is not merely a hypothesis, it is an admitted fact.
” Instead of regarding hypocrisy as the ultimate sin, could it not be regarded as a kind of virtue – or at least as a mitigation of his offense?”
He might as well grow horns.