Baaaa-ck to school
German Police Physically Force Home Schooled Children to Public School — And when fascism somehow crops up again there will be such a big surprise.
BISSINGEN, Germany, October 25, 2006 (LifeSiteNews.com) – German police have resorted to physically dragging home schooled children to school, a report from WorldNetDaily revealed this morning, in the latest assault on families attempting to educate their children themselves.
“On Friday 20 October 2006 at around 7:30 a.m. the children of a home educating family…were brought under duress to school by police,” a report from the Network for Freedom in Education stated. The NFE describes itself as politically and religiously neutral.
German authorities have relied on Nazi-era legislation that outlawed home education to prevent parents from keeping their children out of the public school system for religious or social convictions. The law forbade home education in order to prevent “the emergence of parallel societies based on separate philosophical convictions.”
I suspect this is an attempt to curb potential fundamentalist movements. Many fundamentalists appears to have taken to home schooling in an effort to avoid having their kids exposed to “incorrect” teachings. Hence, while this does appear cumbersome, it may be a direct reaction to the recent rise in fundamentalist movements, especially amongst Muslims, in Europe.
Since there is plenty of “fundamentalism” already in Germany and this anti-home-schooling is nothing new, then I must conclude that the theory does not work.
For a non-religious take on the question, folks might check out http://tinyurl.com/yc2nvr
The German government — and Slovakia, as well — places the question of achieving minimum standards above the concept of home schooling. Unfortunately, fundie groups like the “Twelve Tribes” are the leading opposition on this issue.
John, you’re right. there’s already fundamentalism going on in germany, and we should be happy that the authorities are not willing to let christian fundamentalists brainwash their kids. this whole issue is not about home schooling, but about christian taliban and their attempts to separate from community and nation. but allow me one question. you wrote “And when fascism somehow crops up again there will be such a big surprise.”, so why is a skilled man like you asking nonsense questions like that? just for harvesting the clicks?
Has anyone ever come into contact with these home schooled kids?
A bunch of less well adjusted vegetables I’ve never seen.
Combine this with the aforementioned fundamentalist movement there and its no damn wonder that steps like this need to be taken.
Whenever I hear about home schooling, I remember a Geraldo (I know, I know.. there were only soaps on opposite at the time, and I had no cable/satellite) where a group of KKK members were on. Included was a little girl, maybe 8 or 9 years old, who then talked with an audience member, who pointed out after a moderately friendly conversation, that the audience member was Jewish. She asked the girl how she could justify her hatred of Jews, but talk ‘reasonably’ with the woman. The poor girl had been brainwashed so badly, but kept just a bit of reason, and wound up crying because she could NOT justify unreasoning hatred.
Also, the same people who back home schooling also tend to object to smaller class sizes and spending money on such – but they have one-on-on with home schooling?
J/P=?
In the olden days people would come to America for religious freedom. I guess they used to come over in boats.
…and on the fifth day, God killed all the dinosaurs and the homosexuals with the Remington bolt action rifle…
I know you are gasping with shock, but it is true that I tend to look down on home schooling… especially by people who could not themselves pass a high school proficiency test, such as people who believe the earth is 5000 years old and dinosaurs are a hoax by Satan.
But that isn’t everyone. There are smart people doing it. It seems to me that minimum requirements and the ability to pass, on an annual basis, a grade level proficiency test, along with evidence of a reasonable level of socialization, should be required.
This isn’t about parents rights. I don’t care about parents. This is about children’s rights. These kids will grow up and enter the world. They have a right to be armed with knowledge and skills that will allow them an opportunity to succeed. They have a right to know how old the Earth is and what a brachiosaurus was. If they then want to reject knowledge and live a life of being wrong about everything and raising another family of wingnuts, that’s their right too. But I want them to have a chance.
Do parents send a children to public school to learn or just baby sit them? It seems to me the public school system is not doing a very good job at educating anyone. If I ever have children I might home school them just so they can actually learn something.
What a bunch of brainwashed mass minded
parrots. Not all home schoolers are religious,
nuts or anything else, the damn school sys is
tanked, subverted like everything damn else.
Theres are very narrow outlook on this forum.
God=bad
drugs=ok
bush= head scratch
etc…
Dear John C. Dvorak,
you have absolutely no knowledge of the history of the story.
And because you don’t know anything about it, you might not want to use words like “facism” in such context – your making an idiot out of yourself for all German readers. Plus you’re using a word that has a lot of emotion added to it – I bet you don’t even care, but we both know as soon as drop the N-bomb, all hell breaks loose here.
Im Namen des arischen Volkes,
Robin
If homeschooled children are so ill equipped, why do they always win the national spelling bees? Why do the score so high on their SAT’s and get accepted to Ivy League schools? I guess to bolster your position, it’s okay to drag out the Geraldo reference from almost 20 years ago.
Ok, if these people are so whacky, how is dragging them to school for a few hours a day going to save their children? Hell, all the child has to do is bring a butter knife to school and they will be expelled anyway.
If they are so bad, take the children out of the school and raise them in a state run orphanage. That will turn out nice stable citizens.
Look, part of the price of living in a FREE society is standing back and letting people raise their children as THEY see fit. I know, it can be tough to do. My wife is a special ed teachers aid in a public grade school and to see how some of those children are treated is NEAR criminal. Unfortunately, being a bad parent is NOT criminal, only sad.
Don
I’m amazed at how people continue to treat homeschool education as something inferior to the public school. Oh sure, you can find one or two extreme examples of where it’s gone wrong (as mentioned above), but it pales in comparison to the wrong going on at the taxpayer’s expense every day in the public school system.
#5: Perhaps you would be interested to know that George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Edison, George Patton, and many other famous individuals were homeschooled. Maladjusted indeed.
Home school supporters (under 3% of all students) regularly use the argument that the performance of students is better in a home schooling environment. At least using the stats I have seen, and most of these are from pro home schooling sources, home schooled students do only slightly better than the national average. That average is acknowledged by both sides in this argument as being pretty much pathetic. For home schooling to be considered what’s best for the child, given the obvious downside of lack of exposure to a wider social environment and body of knowledge, shouldn’t those scores be higher and not simply hovering around a “we suck too, but less the you” level? So is that the goal? Don’t be the best you can, just be a tiny bit better than average, at the expense of the child missing out on a more normal life. That seems like a bad trade. Putting an effort into improving the overall education system would be time better spent.
“When an opponent declares, ‘I will not come over to your side.’ I calmly say, ‘Your child belongs to us already… What are you? You will pass on. Your descendants, however, now stand in the new camp. In a short time they will know nothing else but this new community.'” –Hitler
http://www.bartleby.com/66/63/28363.html
Man, such narrow-mindedness and sterotyping here from some folks I would assume are “liberal” in their thinking. As a home school dad I know we are giving our children a better education than our local public schools from testimony of parents that have their kids in these schools. Most home schoolers do it for character education as well. Teaching their children the character they want instead of what some government official decides should be taught.
I think John C.’s main point in blogging this is his opposition to freedom being taken away from these families. You must agree that their freedom is being ripped away from them along with their children.
On 14, most of those on your list were home schooled when there was no other option. Using Jefferson as an example of a supporter of home schooling is misleading, given that he considered his part in the founding of the UVA one of his major accomplishments. Franklin was partially self taught, but a point he makes in his auto-biography is his support for public education and the role he played in founding one of the first public libraries in America. Washington attended a boarding school 30 miles from his home, which says something about his parent’s take on the importance of more than just home schooling. Thomas Edison probably was a product of home schooling, even though there was an attempt on more than one occasion to expose him to a traditional school environment. Curriculum is far more complex now than it was in the time of any of those you listed and less likely to be within the grasp of a single person acting as educational guide.
#9 – Do parents send a children to public school to learn or just baby sit them? It seems to me the public school system is not doing a very good job at educating anyone. If I ever have children I might home school them just so they can actually learn something.
Comment by Improbus — 10/26/2006 @ 10:27 am
Well… No…
Just yesterday I posted about New Trier Public schools in Winnetka, IL and there are hundreds of schools nationwide that perform on that level. Public school performance breaks down… here’s a shocker… along the same lines as median incomes do. If you live in a wealthy neighborhood, your kid probably gets a good education.
I don’t know if there is a list online anywhere that lists notable, successful people who are products of the public education system, but there should be. We do very well where we do well. Our issue is we don’t do a damn thing for the poor and it skews the numbers.
Chicago public schools were caught a few years ago fudging standardized test scores in order to avoid losing funding which is inexplicably tied to scores… in other words, No Child Left Behind means leave all children behind who can’t keep up. Of course, CPS rightly fired responsible parties (dispelling the myth that educators can’t be fired) and hired a new superintendant.
How dare parents refuse the sending of their kids to state education camps er schools. All children must be sent to the government approved schools, where they can be fingerprinted and tracked, and taught that George Bush is great and the government is great and all its leaders are great.
17. “I think John C.’s main point in blogging this is his opposition to freedom being taken away from these families. You must agree that their freedom is being ripped away from them along with their children. ”
I agree, I am sick of a government that is constantly injecting itself in our lives. What the fuck has happened to this nation?
#21 – While many of us are talking about education and homeschooling from our American perspective, it would do us all (me included) a service to remember the article is about Germany 🙂
#20 – How dare parents refuse the sending of their kids to state education camps er schools. All children must be sent to the government approved schools, where they can be fingerprinted and tracked, and taught that George Bush is great and the government is great and all its leaders are great. — AB CD
Well… What is it?
Are American public schools bastions of liberal propaganda full of communists and homosexual waiting to recruit our children, as many extreme right wingers suggest…?
Or
Are schools fascist re-education camps where George Bush is elevated to a status not unlike a diety, and an all seeing overlord monitors our kids every move?
I am really confused.
Does the child belong to society or the family? If the child belongs to society then that certainly trumps and rights of the parent. Libertarianism is more firmly rooted in the US than the rest of the world. You have to remember society funds public education to make good, productive, tax paying citizens. Of course they have a nationalist agenda.
#23 – Here is a radical notion… The child belongs to him or herself, and while the child is a child, the family is a steward of a child, responsible for providing love, care, feeding, clothes, socialization, and education.
And as Americans, we all belong to society and have a basic responsibility to achieve a basic level of knowledge and skill to function in that society. To meet that responsibility, society has an obligation to ensure each child be afforded an education that includes at least a minimum standard of requirements, and more if possible.
The core of my view is based on minimum requirements, and if home schooling meets that, okay, if not, get thee child to a school, public or private, that can meet those requirements.
It isn’t really all that radical a way to think about things.
I wouldn’t presume to know John’s point in posting this……but for me, I see a goverment out of control. Forcing parents to send their children to public schools by force, not just statute is wrong. Religious people see the school system in Germany, or England or here as promoting values out of step with their beliefs, but mostly it’s the cultural aspect that has them upset. Many just want their kids to have a good moral set of basic principels to build their lives on, something that gets undermined daily not only in American schools, but in European schools as well.
I am the youngest of 4 boys, we all were home schooled. My Mom is a person of faith, but religion wasn’t part of our schooling. Religious parents do make up the largest percentage of home schoolers as a single group, but by only a percent or two. Almost 63% of Home schoolers are not doing it for religious reasons. About 36% do it for religious reasons, the other 63% is for several non-religious reasons.
Not surprisingly the achievement levels mirror public schools in many areas…..the wealthier the parents, and more educated, the higher achievement levels of the home schooled kids. The wealthier the school district, the better they do on measurable achievement. The big difference for me and many of my friends who were home schooled is the level of individual attention, the in depth study of all areas, and the teaching of self -relience and self- confidence. We had to learn to do our own research and be able to explain not only our answers, but how and why we got them. This ability has served my brothers and I as well as many other home schoolers, when we went on to University. I’ve mentioned before, none of us are backwards geeks or nerds, and have very good social lives. My oldest brother has Masters in Agri-business and is an expert in Organic Farming, my next brother has his MBA and is a very successful broker, my next brother is an MD, with a PhD in Genetic Research, and I have my BA in Jurisprudence from Oxford University and will be going back for my BCL in Law next fall.
So, please, don’t lump all home schoolers together, we are as varied as the general population, maybe even as varied as all of you Liberals.
🙂
#22 – it’s both and more. There will always be poltiical battles over what our children are taught because we have allowed politics to be the most influential factor in education. When we separated church from state, we should have done the same with education. The overarching goal of public taxpayer-financed education is to create good government citizens who will never seek to overturn the system – even if they complain about it. Academics is somewhat important but only where parents care enough about it to make a stink.
Actually the education in german schools is not that bad. They even teach you about history and fascism.
Every one should have a right to free choice in life. But there are ages where you can’t decide how you want to life as you are just not experienced enough. And if your parents – like in a recent case in Hamburg – think it is a good idea to isolate you from the world maybe you need to be saved from beeing brainwashed, fingerprinted and tracked by _them_.
I personally think compulsory schooling don’t have to be taken that serious.
But you know a law has to be taken serious otherwhise there is no need to have on.
This particular law however is not an Nazi-era one but from around 1800 when laws for compulsory education spreaded around Europe starting from Liechtenstein.
This German law is currently build up on our fundamental law (constitution) that was created and confirmed by the British, Frensh and US-Americans. It says (Art. 7 Abs. 1) that the whole schoolar system in Germany is subject to supervision by the state.
I personally believe that there are other countries with less strange recent background that will crop up with fascism before germany. There is a saying in german: “Pick your one nose.”
I just don’t think about this case as a reason for potential fascist growth in .de – currently there are others in the news…
Greetings from Berlin
Kristian
btw. Leo should brush up his german accent.
Ask yourself this: why do these comments read like a hot topic? As for my motives? My wife and I home school our daughter. After one kid gets into high school thinking Martin Luther King freed the slaves and another coming home from a 2nd or third grade class talking about Christopher Columbus being a slave trader and a horrible person (and that his holiday needs to be changed to Indiginous People’s Day) and numerous other ridiculous stories we got fed up. (I don’t want to even go in to the miserable state-approved propagandistic textooks used in public schools). We home school out of Washington State where they are very amenable and require contsant state run testing that is very neutral politically. In California they do not want anyone home schooling but I think it has less to do with politics than money.
There’s my motivation — to enlighten the rubes, the naive and the true believers. It’s apparent who you are.
And, yes, the fascist comment was indeed a cheap shot. I do that sometimes as my name is on the blog, bandwidth is cheap, and it’s too often fun.
Good follow-up story here
Well, first off – Dvorak homeschools. This stunned me, but I’m happy to hear it.
I was homeschooled for most of my “pre-college” life. I did attend some private schools for k-2 and 7-8. Then I finished high school in 2 1/2 years and went to college. Oh yeah, on a full ride academic scholarship. 1450 on my SAT and graduated college in 3 1/2 years. Now I work there as they sucked me in! (For the curious, I went to UMBC – University of Maryland, Baltimore County) Now I am a Staff senator (the youngest), and a member of the council for our entire USM staff (included a school many of you know – Univ of Maryland, College Park. Go Terps!) On that council I am by far the youngest, in fact the only one under 40 to my knowledge. (I am 25)
I said all that to say this – don’t give me the “homeschoolers are stupid, social retards” stuff. I don’t buy it. It doesn’t work that way. My sister graduated from a very prestigious private university (oh yeah, scholarship for merit for her too) this year and now works as a nurse. My brother finishes his degree this spring, and he’s married with two kids and works two jobs.
Not boasting, but I am saying this – I think we all turned out pretty well. REALLY well. All this from a stay at home mom and a factory worker dad. Not rich in the least, neither of them have college degrees. And yet somehow all of us are well adjusted and doing just fine, thank you.
And take it from someone who has been on the inside of homeschooling since the 80’s – most of my homeschooled “peers” turned out at least as good as we did.
Anyway – think before you speak, and remember that freedom means letting someone say something and believe something (those evillll fundies) you don’t agree with.
LMAO…..#28…John….is that like saying….**it’s my ball, my bat, and my glove, so we play by my rules or I go home**???
Arizona is pretty good about Home schooling. We had to take tests, that weren’t skewered towards any group, and Mom’s curriculum had to approved, though they weren’t over-bearing about it, as long as all the basics were there and your kids did ok on the tests. They even provided info on where to obtain materials that weren’t always available to the public. We were allowed to participate in school sponsered sports or other activities(music, drama etc.) and w all did, I played baseball for the local high school even before I choose to go there my last year, and was on the wrestling team.
And all my brothers and I got Academic Scholarships, mine to ASU until I was accepted by Oxford. One brother got his to Harvard, and another to Stanford, so I think we did ok.