Credibility. Could be anyone.
All Headline News – October 23, 2006:
Ginnah Muhammad, 42, is a devout Muslim, so as such, she feels she was forced to choose between her small claims court case and her religion, Friday.
Judge Paul Paruk, in Hamtramck District Court, told Muhammad she had to take off her niqab; a scarf and veil, which covers her face and head except for her eyes, or he would dismiss her case. The judge said he needed to see her face so he could judge her truthfulness when she testified.
Paruk told the Detroit Free press he offered to let Muhammad, who was born in the United States and converted to Islam at the age of 10, wear her niqab in court, except when she testified. “I felt I was trying to accommodate her as best I could,” Judge Paruk said.
Muhammad had gone to small claims court to contest a rental car company charging her $2,750 to repair a vehicle she had leased after thieves broke into it.
“I just feel so sad,” Muhammad said. “I feel that the court is there for justice for us. I don’t feel that the court recognized me as a person that needed justice. I feel I can’t trust the court.”
In this version of the article http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/mld/myrtlebeachonline/news/nation/15817636.htm
at the end, they talk to another judge who said that he would not have had a problem with it.
Mark Somers, chief judge of the Dearborn District Court, which covers the bulk of the Detroit area’s Muslim population, said he could not recall an instance when a woman who wore a niqab came before his court to testify.
But he said he would not require a woman to remove her veil during a civil case.
“To me, it would not be an issue,” he said. “I simply as a matter of personal policy would never ask someone to do that.”
If she had happened to have a different judge who has this miraculous ability to tell if someone is lying or not without seeing the face of the person, then this would never have been in the news.
ooops, sorry. didn’t know the url would go past the border!
Man Steve, this really pushed your buttons. What’s up with that? Having trouble with power struggles with women or something?
You are aware that you’ve posted 10 out of the 63 posts (prior to mine). That indicates a level of emotional investment that’s way out of whack for the topic. Were you traumatized by a veil at an early age?
STOP TALKING TO ME!!!!
I’m certain that a Hindu person would be allowed to testify in court wearing a turban even if hats are not permitted to be worn. So the system does allow for religious requirements. But the line that is drawn in this regard is probably fuzzy.
RBG
It’s not a matter of religion, it’s a matter of personal choice(or her *man* told her to wear a veil). In a courtroom the Judge makes the decision as to what is allowed and what isn’t, thats his CHOICE. The fact another Judge said he wouldn’t have said anything means diddly squat, because he’s declaring his CHOICE, in HIS courtroom.
The Quran does not require Muslim woman to be covered, it is a cultural thing and most Muslim woman don’t do it. The next time you see an anti-American riot in a Muslim country outside Iran or Saudi Arabia, see how many woman are veiled.
As long the woman’s identity is not in question, why does wearing a veil invalidate her lawsuit? Unless a court can prove a compelling reason why the veil hinders justice, then I think she should be allowed to wear it.
The judge says, “The judge said he needed to see her face so he could judge her truthfulness when she testified.”
So much for justice being blind! đ This is silly.
I remember an article about how “reading faces” has been proven in double-blind studies to be a very inaccurate way to judge people.
it’s contempt of court.. in a court of contempt
er something..
67. Ah, so if it was a matter of religion… like a turban… you’d expect and support a policy to accept it?
RBG
#57 I don’t know who it was, or if the story every actually happened… the whole discussion is therefore hypothetical. however, I don’t see how it matters against anything I’ve said.
oh, and
#46 …. my religion basically says “take care of each other” … if you think that’s backwards, that’s your option.
Frankly, I think I can see why so many people are against religion, taking care of other people is so un-human.
#52 For example, Muslims donât allow the payment of interest, but there are such things as âMuslim mortgagesâ.
The accomodation clearly is the responsibility of the citizen, not the court.
Comment by tkane â 10/23/2006 @ 5:48 pm
Wait… What? Is that true? Are there Muslin Credit Cards too? How hard do you think it would be for me to fake being a Muslim? I already do a pretty good riff on several different brands of Christian, and I do a pretty mean Wiccan. I’m not that good with Hindu, but it’s the accent that screws me up.
Intrest free… That might be worth coverting for…
#73… hehe… the no interest thing is an aspect of religion, and requires no faith or belief…. so where there are some “non-practising muslims” you could be a “practising non-muslim”
I just googled muslim mortgages and found how they work.. .its actually quite a compliment to Islam, their value of equality.. anyway, they work either by having the bank buy the house and sell it to you for more (renaming interest) or having the bank buy the house and lease-to-own it to you (renaming interest) … that said, I don’t think you’d save much money.
I wonder how middle class American Muslims bought cars before the 9/11 inspired 0% financing…. and how many American Muslims bought cars from GM after they released 0%
Not completely sure about this, but it may be that Muslim women are not allowed to be witnesses in a religious court.
#70….RBG….probably not. I’m against veiling because of the reasons for it. It’s a male imposed cultural thing that was inspired to keep woman seperate from scoiety in general and men . Along with the veil also comes many other restrictions on what a female can or can’t do without permission from her husband, brother, father uncle or male cousins. Muslim woman who wear burka or nadjib may have convinced themselves(with a lot of male imput) that it’s Allah’s will, but it’s nothing more than a male domince issue.
And no matter how you parse it, we are a face to face society in the west. This issue just came up in Britain about a school teacher who was asked to remove her head/face covering while teaching her students. The students said they couldn’t understand her, and since they were English as a second language class, the ability to see her mouth move to form the new to them words was important. She refused, the school told her she didn’t have to remove the burka at any other time, just in class while teaching, and she still refused, so she was suspended. She took the issue to the employment tribunial, and they awarded her 1800 pounds for her trouble, but said the school was correct in it’s request and had bent over backwards to accomadate her, so she lost the suspension appeal. Then it turns out that when she applied for the job and interviewed, she wasn’t wearing a veil, it now looks like it was nothing more than an attempt by Muslim fundlementalist groups to force society to accept their way, not the host countries way of doing things. The give away was the 11 Muslim lawyers she showed up with at the tribunal. Even her local MP, who is Muslim said she was wrong.
All this is, is an attempt by the Muslim fundies to make us accept their cultural ways and not require them to adhere to ours. That and they are trying to get goverments to accept a 2 tiered law system like some Muslim countries have….one civil law, the other Sharia law. Thats not how it workds in a western democracy. the law is supposed to be the same for all citizens(yes, i know…please don’t start with all the evidence to the contrary).
77. Well, somehow you’ve got to be the guy to tell women what they should want.
And I have a little news for you: In a world where more than 99% of the people are nowhere even close to what you are – and – they continue to immigrate to your country, how long do you think it will be before their rules are your rules?
The entire world is soon going to be a nice tanny brown. And those who replicate the most will inherit it.
Sleep tight.
RBG
i think that all you ignorate people that are making such idiots out of yourself should gain some knowledge about this situation.for 1 we are americans no matter what color and religon.and another what makes america the best.come on now.you cant even walk outside of your home without worrying about gettin shot,raped or killed so count your blessing on that.dont ridicul a muslim without knowing facts.let me get some guts out here.YOU DONT EVEN KNOW YOUR OWN SCRIPTURES TO BE JUDGING ANOTHER .SO GET A CLUE READ YOUR “HOLY BIBLE” THEN READ THE QURAN THEN SEE WHICH MAKES SINCE .WE DONT COVER OURSELVES FOR A MAN! WE COVER OURSELVES BECASUE IT IS A COMMAND FROM ALLAH(SWT)(GOD).
i think that it is very sad that this situation occured. even more so all of these comments that were post are pathetic. all of u are uneducated fools. dont talk about something that u know nothing about. and more importantly islam does not opress women at all. read the “bible” & see how it opresses women. in islam women are equals to men. and in YOUR country islam is the fastest growning religion so hmmm that must say something. how about all of u go & read a book & find out the truth b4 u talk out of ur butt oops i mean mouth instead of only listenin to what the media says.
It clearly states the arrogance and ill manners of some American people and the especially the stupid judge for not respecting the first her rights, and i am sure he is aware of the two laws of United Nations against discrimination, if they are not applied in Michigan.
Arrogance and stereotyping is in blood of most Americans. It makes them sick and Psychoes, nothing else.