Personally, I think Bush walked into the admission because he didn’t know the historiacal significance of the Tet offensive, and just thought Stephanopoulos was talking about combat in general. IMNSHO, Iraq turned into Vietnam the moment we went in without any real plans to get out.
Stephanopoulos asked whether the president agreed with the opinion of columnist Tom Friedman, who wrote in The New York Times today that the situation in Iraq may be equivalent to the Tet offensive in Vietnam almost 40 years ago.
“He could be right,” the president said, before adding, “There’s certainly a stepped-up level of violence, and we’re heading into an election.”
“George, my gut tells me that they have all along been trying to inflict enough damage that we’d leave,” Bush said. “And the leaders of al Qaeda have made that very clear. Look, here’s how I view it. First of all, al Qaeda is still very active in Iraq. They are dangerous. They are lethal. They are trying to not only kill American troops, but they’re trying to foment sectarian violence.”
The problem is that al Qaeda wasn’t in Iraq before we created the environment to welcome them.
On a related note, here’s an excellent analysis by Kieth Olbermann at MSNBC.com on the recent “anti-terror” legislation signed into law by Bush suspending habeas Corpus for people he doesn’t like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RhmCKKt8h4.
The really sad part is that we still have two years of this before we can even begin the clean-up.
I would really be interested to see a listing of all the elected officials who have a son or daughter in this war. Does anyone know?
#9 by Jeff – You claim that the “problem” is that al Qaeda wasn’t in Iraq before we created an environment to “welcome them”.
Perhaps this was by design? Keep the fight off of American soil.
I say there was no design, but there was a nation in need of military intervention and that was Afganistan. If the United States truly invaded Iraq with the Rocky and Bullwinkle plan of attracting al Qaeda to Iraq, then we are truly horrible people. That would mean we chose to inflict yet even more suffering on hardship on yet even more dark skinned poor people rather than taking on the real problem. Bush is incompetent. I think he is also blind to the problems facing the poor and the middle class in this nation. But I never really believed he was pure evil (although I say it frequently because if politics can’t be funny, what can?). If your claim were true, and it isn’t, then I was wrong and he is evil. Satan style evil. Hitleresque. Crimes against humanity evil. Boris and Natasha evil.
This country, as shown by the many posts above, appears to be losing its backbone… a bunch of timid cowards who want to put their tail between their legs, run away and hide. Yet, they continue to want to enjoy the lifestyle and luxuries of living and thriving in an environment provided to us because of our superpower status.
Democrats are great at talking about the problem, saying the sky is falling… yet on every news show, not a single one can discuss an alternative plan. Reminds me of my college professors, book smart, not street smart.
And you don’t appear to be any kind of smart. More Democratic blood has spilled for this nation than any other kind, so take your “Democrats are weak” bullshit and shove it. Democrats have, over and over again, proved we are more than capable of securing this nation. What we want is to attack the problem where the problem lives, which we can’t do now because the Keystone Cops from the Rumsfeld adminstration have expanded the problem into a previously stable region.
#12 by mxpwr03 – Smartalix in what way was the Middle East stable before the Iraq War of 2003? Saddam Hussein did everything he could to ensure that it was not, evidence can be seen when he invaded two of the neighboring countries, funded terrorism throughout the region, and ran a regime more repressive then Hitler’s.”
By the way, we armed and bankrolled the first invasion, and we gave a green light to the second. By stable, we mean contained. Iraq was no threat. Iraq was making no threats. Iraq was in no position to make threats.
As far as all the “stay the course” arguments, I agree that the saying is rather vague, but what if he said America will stay the course until the Iraqi security forces are able to defend their nation against internal/external threats. As soon as that happens, and I predict it will occur within the next 1-3 years,….
That’s optimistic. Sure, I agree that in a vacuum, Iraqi security forces could get up to speed… but it’s a moot point because the civil war we started will consume them all.
No… We are mired in this thing for years.
By the way, personally, as a liberal and a Democrat, were I to be President in 2008, I would NOT withdraw. I hate that we are there, but we wrecked the country. We must stay and repair this damage. There is no other moral or rational choice to be made.
#18 by AB CD – Just like in VIetnam and the Tet offensive, the media is determined to portray victories as failures.
That is your bullshit delusional spin… The media, and I am really sick of hearing this, is not “determined to portray” anything as a failure. The yonly determinination they have is to attempt to bring home the truth as best they can. And for the record, the media in the US treats Bush like a freaking Prom Queen.
#25 by mxpwr03 again – Oh and also, I would like to know everyones opinion on how best to secure the future of a democratic Iraqi state. Making critisms is easy but coming up with a tenative solution is alittle harder. Are you in favor of a gradual U.S. withdrawl, substitued by U.N. peacekeepers? A complete withdrawl? Withdrawing troops in porportion to the amount of new Iraqi security forces?
We aren’t entirely certain how that is gonna get done, but then we aren’t the ones who screwed the American and Iraqi people in the ass in the first place. Yes, the responsibility is gonna fall to the left, but it was your boy who put us here.
Peacekeepers? I think we need peace first.
Complete withdrawal? I’m on record against that.
Iraqi forces? Never gonna last that long.
No, this is gonna take a real military solution. Real numbers. Real bloodshed. It ain’t gonna be pretty and when its over, no one, on either side of the aisle, is gonna look good.
You think people distrust government now? You think people hate politicians? Vietnam is gonna look like looting after a football game when this is done and America is gonna change deep down inside. For better or for worse, I cannot even speculate.
The only way terrorists take your liberties and freedoms away is by killing you. Once you are dead, you probably do not care one way or another.
The government gives your freedoms and the government takes them away. The government can give you all kinds of reasons for taking away your freedoms. “To keep you safe”, “To protect you from the boogey man” and other nonsense reasons. But just remember it is the government doing this, not a terrorist. Terrorist do not vote in this country. Terrorist do not make the laws in this country.
There is good and bad in this world and no one is safe. The government can not protect you all the time, republicans can not protect you all the time, democrats can not protect you all the time, other political parties can not protect you all the time, your mother can not protect you all the time and you can not protect yourself all the time. Life is risky. Live with it.
“Put ’em on a boat to Baghdad!”
I like that slogan. I presume that includes candyass Democrats who are afraid to offend war-lovers as well as the Friday night American Legion bar Republican heroes?
If the terrs hate us because we are free (as Dumbya insists), obviously his strategy of making us less free (and thus presumably diminishing the hate) is working like a charm.
yes, the flypaper thesis is a fallacy – occupation of Iraq did not keep the terrs from hitting Madrid or London, and it will not keep them from hitting us again. Hardening the homeland against attack would have been a much wiser use of the billions squandered creating a countrywide Islamist recruiting poster out of Iraq.
Hasn’t the Mission been Accomplished? Aren’t the terrs in their Last Throes? Cant we repeat old slogans and get the hell out?
I want to know what’s so gutsy about sending other people to die, and what’s so cowardly about wanting to not do so?
And from Woodward’s book, it looks like Henry Kissinger is this war’s Henry Kissinger.
22,
A way to solve the civil problems??
There are to many.
1. LOCK it down and devide the city in to EACh of its religios groups. NO pass thru without SEARCH.
2. LET each section elect a person to be resposible. 1 per area.
3. STAY OUT of those areas, and let them police THEMSELVES.
4. the representitives will decide, WHOM should rule the group as a Figure head president. LOCK them into a room until they decide on 1 problem…NO food or water, and NO restroom…Let them piss in the corner, and CLEAN it up after they are released. MAKe them work together to GET OUT. 3 moinths of this, and they will agree to ANYTHING and MAKE things work.
#7, Sounds,
I totally disagree. Tet was a failure both militarily and propaganda wise for the N.V. You are correct that it demonstrated the N.V. couldn’t go toe to toe with the full might of the US, but there was no good propaganda in that. After Tet the US was well received in the country until they started going into the countryside and alienating the peasants. After that point, it became even more of a guerrilla war which the invaders just couldn’t win.
I see no comparison between Vietnam and Iraq except that the President still believes he can win and if you disagree then you are a traitor.
“I see no comparison between Vietnam and Iraq except that the President still believes he can win and if you disagree then you are a traitor.”
Good enough for me. It’s ‘nam all over again.
Terrorist do not vote in this country. Terrorist do not make the laws in this country.
Yes they do vote in this country. Anyone who voted for a Republican knowing so that men could be tortured and held without trial, or laws would be drafted legalizing discrimination against homosexuals, or overruling the courts, or abandoning our Constitutional Rights is a terrorist.
..“He could be right,” the president said, before adding, “There’s certainly a stepped-up level of violence, and we’re heading into an election.”
Can you believe the political narcissism of this guy? Tet was launched at the New Year and over FIVE MONTHS before the ’68 election yet that’s the parallel he makes!
One real horrible similarity is the way both wars were shamefully run according to US domestic politics — just like Bush did with this bogus parallel.
#37 >>1. LOCK it down and devide the city in to EACh of its religios groups. NO pass thru without SEARCH.
What a plan!
How many troops would it take to “LOCK DOWN” Baghad, let alone a country of almost 30 million people in a state the size of Texas?
I don’t know but I can tell you its a lot more than Bush or America is willing to commit.
I don’t think there are any good ways left to get out of Iraq. There were some in the beginning but Bush let them all pass by.
They have a saying here in the Arab world:
One idiot rolled a boulder in the well and a whole village of sane people can’t get it out.
That perfectly describes Bush and Iraq.
Get SADDAM back !…..no body but him can handle such a bloodely nation !.
>>Democracy isn’t being forced on Iraq, America enabled the
>>opportunity for democracy [in Iraq].
Yeah, that damned liberal, left-wing, driveby media just refused to report where the Iraqis lined up with flowers for their American benefactors. Commie pinko fag stinking yellow dog “journalists”. We need to get rid of this “freedom of the press” nonsense, and start requiring them to print what The Government tells them.
break it up into 48 states.. buy kuwait and iran and call it eastern america
Smartalix – how Ironic.
46,
I am a bit of the smartass,but then again, so are you. At least I argue my opinion instead of simply throwing stones.
42,
Thats correct.
Stopping the civil war is like trying to break up a Bar fight.
Stand back and let the winner walk out. the rest are arrested and fined, and pay for the damages.
ALL I would want would be a GATED sections, and Let those sections Police themselves.
That way, if 1 person from another group enters, THEY should know. they will need to KNOW who lives in their areas…We DONT want a police action, its stupid and HARD to control those you cant Identify, 1 group from another. you will find that cooperation Starts at the gate.
LET them do the work. teach them how to police, tech them HOW to do the repairs.
So, Lets stand on the OUT side of the city and let them FIGHT. takes fewer military, and its mosly open ground. If anyone shoots, WE shoot back… WE then police WHO goes in and out of the WHOLE city, not the sections.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2006/10/20/do2002.xml
Iraq has turned out to be a mess because the Shiites are fighting with the Sunni’s, their government can’t reach consensus and the terrorists are “stirring the pot”. Could we have anticipated this, perhaps, recall please how the world felt however when that video of Saddam’s statue was pulled down in the city square and the Iraqis proceeded to beat it with their shoes.
And, BTW, have you seen the commercial on TV made and paid for by the Iraqi Kurds- they mention how Sadam vowed to kill every last one of them and they made that commercial to say “Thank You America”.
Al Qaeda (UBL) said that WW3 is Iraq- well I guess this web site just wants to give it to him.
I’m not happy with the way things are going but when “the going gets tough, the tough get going”. Articles like this one do nothing other than encourage the Terrorists to keep going because they see just how fractured the US has become and that our will to succeed is being undermined.
You said “The problem is that al Qaeda wasn’t in Iraq before we created the environment to welcome them”. Well, ahem, that’s right, they are fighting us there not here!!!!
If this attitude was prevalent in the 40’s we’d be speaking German today!
I visit this site for science and technology, NOT for your left leaning rants.
And BTW, if asked, I would gladly go there to fight to keep those ‘tards off our soil!
This was a nice discussion.
If this attitude was prevalent in the 40’s we’d be speaking German today!
I get sick whenever I hear this argument. Sorry to be the one to break it to you, but the US didn’t win WWII. It was the USSR that beat Hitler and they would have done it with or without the US, Britain, Canada, and Australia.
I visit this site for science and technology, NOT for your left leaning rants.
As long as I have been coming here, this blog has been about whatever John Dvorak and his contributing editors have wanted to post. And the political, economy, and social issues get far more responses then most “tech” topics.
And BTW, if asked, I would gladly go there to fight to keep those ‘tards off our soil!
And I don’t see anyone stopping you. The military is constantly asking for new recruits. Unless the military won’t take you because you didn’t finish school, have a criminal record, or can’t pass the psych test. Shoot, they’ll even take you if you’re an illegal immigrant.
50,
As I have pointed out in the past, I am a veteran, and froze my ass off on a mountaintop on the East German border monitoring Soviet troops in he early ’80’s. I wish someone would question my patriotism in my presence.
If this attitude was prevalent in 1812, we’d be speaking English right now!
We are screwed as long as we are being led by the grandson of a Nazi Sympathizer. This is for real folks.
http://www.nhgazette.com/cgi-bin/NHGstore.cgi?user_action=detail&catalogno=NN_Bush_Nazi_2
Hey mark.
want to held responsible for your Ancestors past??
56. Sure, I got nothin to hide. My ancestors were good at fighting the Nazis. My family didnt make its money off the murdering bastards.
56. “Hey mark.
want to held responsible for your Ancestors past??
Lets see:
GreatGreat Grandfather, Civil War captured at Battle of Vicksburg Ms. Survived Andersonville POW camp.
Great Grandfather: US Navy, WWI, France.
Grandfather: Landed at Normandy Beach 2nd Day, Survived to liberate nazi Death camp.
Father: Pattons 5th Armored Division. WWII.
Peacetime service for myself, I was the lucky one.
Yeah, I’m good with that.
And how many germans can say that??
How many Japaneese, can say that??
Do you think, they want to forget the Past??
And if they had won?? they would have been proud.
And you are missing alot of Grandmothers…And maybe what these men did on there time off in the military.. And how many little brothers you may have.
Im sorry, but the past is filled with pot holes.
#58, Mark,
Your time line doesn’t add up. Your Greatgreat grandfather sired a son who fought in a war 50 years later is highly suspect. That adds up to three generations between him and you. Maybe you should add another generation or three onto that.
Both your grandfather, who landed at Normandy, and father, who fought under Patton were in the same war together is also unlikely. Although there were a few cases of father and son, they were extremely rare and usually consisted of very high ranking officers and young sons. The high ranking officers very seldom came near any hostilities. The Army had a maximum age limit of 35 for enlistment.
Patton never commanded the 5th Armored Division. In fact, I couldn’t find any reference to it even being part of the II Corps or Third Army, which Patton commanded between the time the 5th was activated and deactivated.
While you mention the time your father spent with the 5th Armored, you don’t mention your grandfather’s unit but you do mention his service areas.
But my biggest concern is that if you feel the need to boast, then there is probably an element of fiction. Because your times looks a little funny, I think there could be more then a little fiction.
Mr. Fusion,
http://members.aol.com/CXGallery/BioMcCulloughP.html
Thats my great great g’father. My great g’father on my MOTHERS side was Navy WWI.
My father and grandfather served as stated. Yes both were young. Granfdather served in the Army and was involved in both The Alleutian campaign, then France and Germany. I dont know his unit because he NEVER talked about his service. The info I got was from my Mother, the only person who could get him to talk till recently. But I had the pleasure of getting him to open up a little last summer, he is well into his 80’s but still all there. Before I left he gave me a box of “souveneirs” German medals and buttons and such.
My father was a tank commander with Pattons 3rd Army. I apologize for my egregios error above. I had to call my dad to confirm this.
Now, I really do not like being called a liar. The post was written in haste and I got one fact wrong. But you should really not be so judgemental. And yes, I am proud of my family as well as my 8 years in the USCG. So if I want to boast a little, then tough shit.