Record-setting diesel Honda: 130 mph/24 hours
then got mixed highway/street 78* mpg
Sean King used to hate diesel engines.
They were noisy, they made cars shake and starting them up created a thick cloud of black smoke. That was 20 years ago.
“We start them up inside the dealership these days,” said King, retail sales manager for Louisville Mercedes dealer Tafel Motors.
New federal regulations are forcing major changes in the diesel market. Today, truck stops and gas stations across the country begin selling ultra-low-sulfur diesel, a cleaner version of the fuel that is expected to lead to huge reductions in harmful emissions.
In January, new diesel engine rules will force automakers to cut emissions by as much as 95 percent. As a result, new diesel-powered vehicles will run smoother and quieter than previous models. Those advances, coupled with high gasoline prices, have automakers scrambling to get models on the road.
Last week, Cummins announced it would add 600 to 800 jobs at its Columbus (Ind.) Engine Plant to build diesel engines for Dodge, Chrysler and Jeep trucks and SUVs. Cummins has provided engines for Dodge heavy duty trucks since the 1989 model year, but this will be its first foray into mass-market diesels.
On the car side, Honda has shown off a four-cylinder diesel engine that could be used in its midsized Accord sedan in the next few years. Volkswagen plans diesel Beetle compact cars and Jetta midsized sedans by 2008.
Honda can use fuel-efficient, low-emissions diesel sedans to draw buyers away from Toyota’s hybrid models, he said. Riddell added that automakers that make both diesels and hybrids will be able to offer custom-fit vehicles to buyers with environmental concerns.
“If you drive in long commutes every day, diesels are better,” Riddell said. “If you’re driving in the city every day, a hybrid is better.”
Joe Loughrey, Cummins president and chief operating officer, said he hopes drivers will give the new vehicles a try when they get on the road.
“Because of some of the things that happened in the past and some outdated images of diesels, it will take some time to gain acceptance,” Loughrey said.
If your only experience with a diesel-powered automobile is founded on a poorly maintained yuppie Volvo or Mercedes from a couple decades ago — or, even worse, absolutely anything powered by the POS diesel V8 shoved out the door by GM, long ago and unforgotten — you have a pleasant surprise coming.
When they get to your neighborhood, try one of the new generation. The diesel fuel should have arrived this weekend.
*At first, I didn’t notice the mileage was rated in Imperial gallons. Now, correct for U.S..
Last year I took the Volvo diesels for a test on the track in Gothenburg. They were darn fast! Amazing actually. I blogged it here: http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=1825
You are right audi won Le mans this year in a diesel http://www.audi.com
As an irrelevant side note, today’s episode of TwiT contained a nice collection of plugs (arguably the most ever made) to this blog. I liked the closing song also. Excellent salute to Mr. Dvorak.
It makes far better sense to keep advancing the internal combustion engine until other technologies mature. Hybrids doesn’t make economic sense for the average consumer. Regardless of what’s right for the environment, the bottom line will remain economics. Diesels scale very well, hybrids don’t. If you still want/need a big vehicle, these new diesels will be a better choice.
the Honda UK website only rates this vehicle with 2.2 i-CTDi engine at 51.4 mpg.
FWIW I had one of those big GM POS diesel cars; a 1985 Olds 88. It was one of the best cars I ever owned. I put 198,000 absolutely trouble-free miles on it before it gave up the ghost. The engine never had a wrench laid on it. With an almost-40 gallon fuel tank, I could drive 800 miles, in yacht-like luxury, before having to refill. Diesel was cheaper than regular back then, too.
I grew up with several Delta 88 diesels, or as we called the Gease-els.
They ran really well and they got excellent mileage, but living in a northern state in the winter starting them could be tricky and they “purred” like a rabid cat, but i have very fond memories, even drove one to school for a while. I loved those cars, big old lan yachts with purring motors…. purr purr.
I think this is awesome, but please someone tell me that my math is wrong. If the car got 3.07L/100km, then that would be 62.13 miles per 0.811 gallons or 76.61 mpg. Am I missing something?
Nothing negative intended, folks 🙂 but, sometimes, when I drop by here I feel like a Den Mother — or 6th grade science teacher.
4. This article and others make the point that most automotive engineers would agree with: Mixed driving with a chunk of distance hauls on highways = diesel best. Mixed driving with mostly city stop-and-go commutes = hybrid best.
5. Ever done any competitive or rally driving? An qualified driver should be able to take just about any vehicle in good tune and significantly better the highway mileage figure any nation’s government rating body assigns. The Honda diesel did especially well. It was designed to be an improvement over past models, after all.
6&7. I don’t doubt there’s someone out there who got 250,000 miles out of his Pennsy Volkswagen, either; but, most of them fell apart. Apocrypha doth not make for statistical analysis. Most GM engineers would agree that V8 was a POS engine. It was not designed to be a diesel in the first place! It was supposedly going to be a cheap solution. It failed.
My strong disagreement with the article starts with “You’re really going to see the growth coming from the European companies…”. European designers and engineers truly have a world of experience in diesel. They have paid little or no attention to the changes coming in the US market, however.
The arrival of cleaner diesel and more strict emission regs aren’t an overnight surprise. The Euros knew about this the same time as the Asians. Daimler-Chrysler has even built a decent diesel-hybrid on the Sprinter platform — and shipped thousands of them to companies like FedEx.
Go to the Dodge website and try to find some way to spec this vehicle for purchase. If you’re not a fleet owner, they ain’t interested.
Now if just the Mighty Oil would make diesel prices proportional to what the diesel is… (Would anyone agree to pay more for the same amount of the 10 karat gold than for 18 karat?). To the best of my knowledge USA is the only country where the typical price of the diesel is more per gallon than the gasoline. Example from the NJ relatively cheap gas station where I visit: Gas per gallon: 87 2.01$; 89 2.11$; 93 2.21$; they have just one “generic type” diesel at 2.34$/gal… Does this sound insane to anyone reading from outside of the USA (by the way, there are no extra taxes on diesel here to explain discrepancy)?
10. Federal excise tax on diesel is 33% higher for diesel than gasoline. The pattern is generally true state-by-state. The presumption continues that diesel is only for trucks.
As easy solution — instead of trying to devolve regressive taxes (which doesn’t appeal at all to neo-cons) — would be to fight for a rebate for folks owning diesel passenger cars roughly equivalent to the excise tax difference.
9. You’re telling me that a “qualified” rally driver can be reasonably expected to get a 79% increase in mpg on average over what the manufacturer rates the same car at? That seems a bit much to me.
woot! I LOVE to see the more positive press diesels are getting these days!
Thanks for blogging the Cummins announcement, too, Eideard!
The diesels are indeed coming! VW is keeping production high through the end of the year so that it can sell 2006’s as far as possible into 2007. They’ll be back in 2008 with a common-rail version of the 2.0 currently in production.
Honda will be giving them a run for their money when they bring the 2.2 to the states. That is an unbelievable engine, and matched with the Accord, CRV and Element will force VW to remain a “niche” brand, methinks.
Just a prediction, but the Bluetec will be gone from the Dodge side of the DC lineup stateside when the Cummins engines are introduced…. maybe not right away, but the co-branding power of Cummins/Dodge (which predates DC) will really start to pay off for both companies…. especially when the aftermarket gets ahold of the Cummins engine. Expect unbelievable power and modest gains in economy. Who wouldn’t want a 300 hp/600ftlb Grand Cherokee that gets 28mpg?
Of course, you can go shell out 50k for a Mercedes 320 right now…. awesome vehicles,but a little out of my price range!
BRING ON THE DIESELS!
Ryan
Who wouldn’t want a 300 hp/600ftlb Grand Cherokee that gets 28mpg?
Me.
Most rational people.
Urbanites with IQs over 110.
Men with cocks that are naturally large.
People with taste.
Women who don’t own any flanel shirts.
People who hate country music.
Suburbanites with IQs over 110.
Grandmothers who can’t see over the steering wheel. (well, actually they might want one but I propose legislation to stop them from buying one)
WELL,
sence it uses LESs fuel, they can raise the price of fuel.
THEn sence other cars use MORE fuel, they can raise the price of THAT fuel.
Fair enough.
I see that you differentiated yourself from the group of men that have naturally large cocks.
However, as part of the small percentage of the population that uses their SUV/Light truck for getting to places where other vehicles can’t easily get to, or to bear loads that other vehicles can’t safely handle… I, for one, welcome our new diesel overlords.
Ryan
Europe runs on Diesel maybe by 40%. Here in Portugal, thanks to a Tax policy, that provided a loophole that permited to deduct VAT tax on “workin” cars, we have almost 50% Diesel auto population. Thank also to lower price on Diesel compared to gasoline and the fact that you get more mileage per liter, they became very popular.
The TDi 1.9 from volkwagen must be the most elastic engine ever built. it ranges from its inception some years ago from 75hp to today´s 130 hp (by the way European hp is mesured by torque at the wheel…see the wikipedia article on horsepower). It powers a wide range of VW models, SEAT, AUDI and SKODA . But they also produced a tiny “proof of concept” 1.4cc TDi for its tiny urban car, the Lupo, some years ago, that was marketed as the 3L. It consumed 3 Liters for 100Km (roughly 1 gallon per 100 miles). FIAT’s JTD engine, Mercedes CDI engines and Renault’s dCI engines are also very popular. Average 1.7 or 1.9 TDi (thats TurboDiesel injection by the way) is around 6.5 Liters per 100Km.
Diesel is not the holy grail, but today’s Diesel engines are not noisy neither that much pollutant, with comparable emissions to gasoline thanks to cataliser and filter technology. The torque is fantastic and acceleration is as good as a gasoline car.
I know that America has almost clueless about these newer generation Diesel but you should try one. Rent one when in Europe, and check it by yourselves.
This is a UK publication. Imperial gallon = 1.25 US Gallons.
#8 I think this is awesome, but please someone tell me that my math is wrong. If the car got 3.07L/100km, then that would be 62.13 miles per 0.811 gallons or 76.61 mpg. Am I missing something?
Comment by fuzzymath — 10/16/2006 @ 1:13 pm
#18 maybe your correct, I was doing the math assuming the gallon is 4.5 liters, and a mil 1.45 Km… anyway, 76 mpg is pretty impressive…
#10…. here in Australia, diesel costs more per liter than petrol. I think that diesel is taxed more than petrol, which would explain some of the difference.
I want to point out that the diesel sold in Europe is different than the diesel sold in the US. The European diesel burns cleaner.
Last year I rented a Mercedes-Benz diesel C class (with 6 speed manual) for a month of driving through Italy. I was very impressed. I drove all over Italy for 30 days and only had to fill it up 3 times. The car ran smooth and fast. I was able to cruize comfortably at 140+ k/h on the autobauns.
is that a take on “the russians are coming”? cuz that movie is freakin hillarious
Sorry, I didn’t notice I was referencing a UK publication. Given the amount of time spent in various pubs from Gourock to Portree, I certainly know the difference between Imperial and American pints.
21 — you got the movie right.
More diesel vehicles means more choices for those of us that want to use bio-diesel. I think this a win all around. The only thing that would be better is plug-in/hybrid diesels.
I think it’s fantastic that diesel is becoming more popular….only problem is it’s more expensive for fuel! Why? It costs less to refine it. Again, big oil screws everybody. Here in good ol Pennsyltuckey, we’re paying $2.19 for 87 Unleaded and I’m paying $2.55 for diesel! I purchased a diesel for the life of the engine, the cleaner burning, the mileage and (at the time) the small savings per gallon.
Somebody please tell me WHY this country allows this to happen! The truckers have gotta be taking a major screwin’….and their companies pass it on to their customers with higher prices. And, there we have it.
I just don’t get it.
#25,
The truckers have gotta be taking a major screwin’….and their companies pass it on to their customers with higher prices. And, there we have it.
Only until you check out some facts first. Trucks do far more damage to highways then do passenger vehicles. Yet, unlike the Rail Roads, don’t have to build and maintain the roads. Trucks already are subsidized over rail traffic by this fact alone.
If the taxes are included in the price so what. The taxes have to be paid anyway, somehow, somewhere, by someone. If the tax money is going to repair the roadways, then why shouldn’t those that damage the roads the most shoulder the cost.
Most urban trucks are more fuel efficient then their road cousins. Simply because the inter city trucks are heavier, with larger engines, and large living quarters attached. Owner operated trucks are better at getting the driver to drive for more hours.
Because it is a cost of doing business, the cost of fuel is a deductible expense.
Also, until just recently, diesels were dirtier and noisier then gasoline fueled cars. Because of their pollution output, it was only natural they pay more.
Then one thing not touched upon is that diesel is the same fuel used for home heating. This is especially so in the new England area. Because the oil companies have a special interest in NOT seeing Americans freezing in the dark, they have held back fuel stocks just to build up the NE home fuel inventory. That led to diesel being more expensive then gasoline.
Why does diesel continue to be more expensive? Ask the oil companies. They control the refining and distribution of the oil. But then the new regulations mean cleaner diesel fuel. That meant upgrading the refineries to produce the new fuel. Diesel used to be easier and cheaper to refine then gasoline. I don’t know if this still holds true.
“Volkswagen plans diesel Beetle compact cars and Jetta midsized sedans by 2008.”
This is probably a reference to a new design.
VW currently offers diesel engines as an option in the New Beetle, Jetta, and Passat. AFAIK, VW has offered diesel engines continuously since the 80s.
Would love to have one, but my elderly Camry is paid-for and still gets over 30 MPG. Cheaper to keep driving it.
As the sole owner of a true Hybrid and the worlds current most clean gas-powered car, the Toyota Prius, I have this to say:
I love this car. 🙂
If you can afford a luxury sedan, and have an ounce of sense, you can get this car, or another hybrid.
That said, it gives me great pleasure to read about high mileage Clean motors, especially diesel, today. That means in five years from now, they will be the norm and dirt cheap in price.
I find it saddening that it took so long, with melting glaciers and drowning polar bears for the company execs to do this.
Don’t you think clean diesiels could have been made ten years ago? Twenty?
Who cares about price of your gas when car now quadruples it’s mileage and doesn’t stink to holy hell taking off from a red light.
Diesel is still an oil derived fossil fuel that generates dangerous greenhouse gas emissions, and no matter how “clean” they can make it the particles spewed out from diesel engines are dangerous and carcinogenic.
I don’t see the point in exploring something that’s just a heavier version of petrol. (sorry, as an Aussie I can’t bring myself to call it “gas”). I know with all the government red tape and bureaucracy around the world this wouldn’t be possible, but imagine if instead of investing all this money into research into another dirty fuel we spent the money on… oh, I don’t know… public transport?
I’m an expat in Singapore and I never think twice about not using the buses or trains here because they’re just so darned reliable and take you anywhere. When I’m in Kuala Lumpur I need to get into my greenhouse gas machine.
I have always wondered the attitude against diesel engines in USA. In Europe car manufacturers have to have a line of diesel engines for every family and business models. Diesel engines have a great mileage and atleast the Volkswagen, Volvo, Audi and Mercedes Turbo Diesels are very powerful. They give a lot of torque