For the record, I’m an Army vet who’s sick of being called a traitor for being against this stupid war from the beginning. That’s my opinon, and everything I see going on reinforces it. I’d honestly like to have a constructive discussion where we can talk like adults about a very serious situation. This report is from a panel headed by George the elder’s Secretary of State.
A commission formed to assess the Iraq war and recommend a new course has ruled out the prospect of victory for America, according to draft policy options shared with The New York Sun by commission officials.
Currently, the 10-member commission — headed by a secretary of state for President George H.W. Bush, James Baker — is considering two option papers, “Stability First” and “Redeploy and Contain,” both of which rule out any prospect of making Iraq a stable democracy in the near term.
More telling, however, is the ruling out of two options last month. One advocated minor fixes to the current war plan but kept intact the long-term vision of democracy in Iraq with regular elections. The second proposed that coalition forces focus their attacks only on Al Qaeda and not the wider insurgency.
Where do we go from here?
Jim Baker has been suggested by many normal Republicans as a replacement for Condi Rice. Not because her personal politics suck. She’s there, after all, as a standout bobble-head. As a replacement who might be able to claw something other than disaster from what passes for foreign policy in the White House.
Rove, Rumsfeld, the other petty neo-cons would poop their damask drawers over that sort of change. The linen room attendant, George the Little, does as he’s bid.
I will catch hell for this. I believe if we want to win the war in Iraq we need to attack Iran and syria, just like Israel last July we are fighting a war by proxie and cannot win until we stop the true backers of this insurgency and of terrorism world wide. I think if we hit the leaders of those countries in decisive airstrikes and a short bombing campaign that would pretty well cripple thier ability to wage war. the leaders that are left would act very much like Gaddafi did in lybia after Reagan bombed them and he barely escaped with his life. The imams are very willing to send others to die but they really dont want to meet allah any time soon
The whole Baker commission is obviously a way to start finding a way for W to get out of the deep hole he’s dug for himself. And not just W, but all of us. It’s clear even to most observers that American diplomacy and credibility is badly badly damaged. And, even though it doesn’t do any good now to say it, this is why I was opposed to the unilateral rush to war over three years ago. The chances of success were small, in the best of circumstances. In light of the pervasive corruption and incompetence of the administration and the congress, the result is probably far worse than most reasonable people expected.
Who actually believes this war is going great? I suspect that even most diehard conservatives unerstand this war is a boondoggle on an epic scale.
But admitting you’re every wrong is an absolute no-no for conservatives. So, they spin and spin and spin. But that doesn’t actually get us out of the mess we’re in.
So I’m praying that Rove can figure out a spin that saves conservative face and gets us out of Iraq. If this happens, surely we liberals will take a big hit since Conservatives will somehow blame us for it. … Oh, hell… bring it on. I love America and our troops more than my political party. (I wish that were true for Republicans!)
Hmm…
It’s obvious to me that violent opposition where-ever needs to be met by total resolve and stupidity. We are, afterall, weekend quarterbacks. So, I propose we drop a nuke on Kansas City. Perhaps Denver, and Green Bay (Favre needs to retire NOW). Of course, the gubment would have to make a big cover-up of it all; but I have no known relatives in those places. This would scare the shit out of the amerikano populace, and we could blame others for the event afterward. Then, we could h-bomb Kim Dong Dickhead and the other power-hungry republikans “over there”, then ask the entire Islam community their opinion on global warming and self-induced radiation fall-out…
Well, I’m a pessimistic optimistic paranoid schizophrenic. Or, a Bush supporter, pick a side. Or not.
Kbye!
The damage is done. The entire region has been destabilized. They only real option is to get out of their way and let the chips fall. Internal forces in Iraq and their neighbors will determine the future of the country, not the US. There is no other option. The American people don’t have the will to continue this fiasco, nor should they. There is zero possibility for any coalition force to move in. No other nation wants their citizens in harms way over this mess. Remember when Bush said America wasn’t interested in nation building? In the end someone will declare some made up objective has been met, throw some cash at the most favored parties, and leave.
Attack Syria and Iran — if only they’d had the foresight to see that terrorism was being funded from elements in those countries five years ago. Europe would have even been more behind a serious effort to deal with that issue than they were behind Iraq (after all, Turkey has some trouble with those same elements and borders Syria, Iraq and Iran, and wants in the EU). The problem now is that our military is too strung out to do anything serious, and this administration doesn’t take military implementation seriously in the first place. If they did, Baghdad and Basra would have been secure two months after the initial invasion, and the insurgency would have been aiding security forces to get the terrorist elements out. Yury Kozryev has done some interviews for Time with insurgency leaders in Iraq, and they keep talking about how once they take care of the American problem, they have to deal with the terrorist problem; those were potential allies that were lost by bad management, bad planning and bad logistics, and it’s devolving into a sectarian civil war.
And as of today (Oct. 13), the British generals are saying their presence is doing more harm than good in Iraq. To go into Syria and/or Iran with Iraq in the state it’s in would be to blow a real powder keg all over that region. Sorry, this sectarian toothpaste can’t be put back into the Middle Eastern tube. Forget Syria and Iran for at least 30 years, when half of Iraq is dead and things settle down.
Wean ourselves from the tit of foreign (or even domestic) oil, extract ourselves from Irag RIGHT NOW, just like we did in Saigon oh so many years ago, cease calling governments that violently disagree with American imperialism “rogue states”, expell ( through the electoral process) the inept and evil goofballs currently running the country and lets concentrate on making our country more self sufficient, and pay all of our attention to our problems, like health care, education, the environment, etc. The one shining success of the current folks in charge is they’ve demonstrated, to the world, that not everybody wants to live like Americans.
I have to admit to being very discouraged that anything will change. The military/intelligence/anti-terrorism/homeland security monster that we have created, along with their thoasands of contractors and suppliers have a lobbying and campaign contribution juggernaut. They have stumbled onto the formula for the Endless War that George Orwell predicted in “1984”. Constant interference in the Middle East and blind, unlimited support for anything Israel does will continue to provide an evil enemy for ever. An enemy that can never be vanquished as long as we incite them, leading to increased calls for more spending. The joke is that we are borrowing the money for this fake war from the communist Chinese, who are our real competition in the real world.
Ok,
Think about this:
Iraq is not a country. Nothing in the mideast is a coutry in the Western sense of the word. The lines on the map were drawn by Europeans.
In the mideast, who you people are is family tribe valley or desert.
Our ideas of ‘nation’ are actually based on geography, which has a parallel in that region, and economy which does not. Yes the mideast has economy but what we see does not translate to the man in the street there. In Iraq, the man in the street looses nothing if the national government fails.
What is victory? For us, for them. Until these ideas align there will be no victory. Iraq is not close to being a country because we failed to provide the opportunity, it is because they failed to take advantage of it!
Howard
The problem is pride. Smartalix, look at the way you titled this blog entry “casts doubt on American victory”, which is a euphimism for WE LOST. I know Americans, and especially veterens, have a hard time admitting this. I once told a few Vietnam veterens that I work with, that we LOST the Vietnam War. That statement caused an uprising and verbal attacks on me. Those veterans were ready to lynch me. American are too full of pride which shows in their inability to ADMIT loss. Look at the president. He still to this day will not admit to making any mistakes.
Good point, David, but even the best have to admit they need to stop throwing good money (and people) after bad and pull the plug on a bad effort. If a leader is honest with his team (or in this case, his country) there is no shame in trying, failing, and backing up and learning from that mistake. Too bad our President isn’t an honest man, with himself or anyone else.
As for those who say attack the neighboring countries, that is exactly what we did in Vietnam with Cambodia and Laos. That tactic (striking out at everyone is no strategy) never works, it only spreads the pool of disaffected in which the guerilla can operate in and gain support from.
IMNSHO, I think partitioning is the best idea. We let them draw the lines this time in a loose federation, give them a period for relocation, then pull out and let them handle the rest.
Here’s a link to an article on the subject.
13 I think partitioning is the best idea.
The Shia and Kurds agree with you.
The Sunni’s are another story. 🙂
Also a problem is that the only reason we had any other countries join our “coalition of the willing” was that we agreed Iraq would not be partitioned.
i.e. Remember how Turkey didn’t want to support our attacks against Saddam from their southern territories, because they were afraid the Kurds would not only get nothern Iraq, but also southern Turkey?
#2
You don’t need to catch hell, you need to catch therapy,
We now have one camel by the tail dragging us through the sand and now you want two more Where are you going to get all the hands to hold on.
/agree with #10
This whole ‘War on Terror’ rubbish is as Orwellian as if it had come from the pen of the man himself. For god’s sake Americans, vote the radical neo-cons out of the White House.
PORKCHOP SAMWICHES!!!!
Why we think AMERICA can contain or stabilize a bunch of insane crazy nut cases is beyond me. They dont operate on Logic, but a fanatic zelotry for a false religion.
To keep up with this CUT AND RUN nonsense just shows his lack of understanding.