The problem is that both sides have a point. I hate the idea of abortion as birth control, but I recognize that early-term abortion is sometimes neccessary for the health of the mother or to spare the child from unneeded agony (I don’t mean screening for “nice” kids; I mean serious genetic damage in the fetus).
At a pivotal time in the abortion debate, Ms. magazine is releasing its fall issue next week with a cover story titled “We Had Abortions,” accompanied by the names of thousands of U.S. women who signed a petition making that declaration.
The publication coincides with what the abortion-rights movement considers a watershed. Abortion access in many states is being curtailed, activists are uncertain about the U.S. Supreme Court, and South Dakotans vote Nov. 7 on whether to ban virtually all abortions in their state.
However, if you really want to reduce abortion, you have to teach contraception.
#0, “However, if you really want to reduce abortion, you have to teach contraception.”
Birth control and abortion is 100% a woman’s responsibility. Until people understand this and teach this, we are still going to have this divisive issue. The only time this is not true is in cases of rape. Abortion is caused by the WRONG teaching that ACCIDENTAL pregnancy is a 50/50 choice. THAT IS BULLSHIT. Pregnancy is the 100% responsibility of the woman. The problem with our society is that we do not empower women. The fucking Catholic Church led by that homosexual Pope is teaching women to fight their own bodies and urges. The pope teaches that contraception is wrong and that sex is wrong before marriage. THIS IS NOT REALITY. This is a major problem with abortions these days. Look at the statistics, most abortions are done in the red states where the pro-lifers are most vociferous. Again the problem is exacerbated by castrated males who go with the feminist’s stance that it is also a man’s responsibility. It is a crock of shit and they use this to manipulate men into submission. Most of you reading this are going to be saying that IT IS a man’s responsiblity because you’ve been so brain-washed by the media that you wouldn’t even though who you are if you didn’t take your driver’s license out of your wallet to remind you.
Pregnancy is 100% a woman’s responsiblity. We have to first accept that as Natural FACT. Yes, in the past it wasn’t because men would FORCE women into pregnancy/marriage. TODAY, it is different. STOP living in the past. IT IS THE FUCKING 21ST CENTURY. Birth control is a reality. THE PILL IS A REALITY. The government should HAND OUT FREE contraceptive pills to women and TEACH THEM THAT SEX IS NOTHING TO BE ASHAMED ABOUT. FREEDOM is in the pill [remainder of comment deleted for violating site guidelines – Ed.].
why dont you tell us how you really feel 0113addiv….
1,
So are you agreeing with me that we should teach contraception, or has your rant distracted you from the point? What part about teaching contraception is unempowering to the woman?
#2. i gotta take a break from this blog.. all it does is enrage me sometimes because the problems in the world can be fixed but people are being led by the wrong leaders. I’m going out for a walk to relieve some of the high blood pressure right now…
Speaking about responsibility – I remember reading an OpEd several months ago from a woman who accidentally got pregnant because she and her husband had sex and couldn’t be bothered to do take prevention steps beforehand, so she later blamed George Bush for the abortion she had to get because the morning-after pill was not FDA approved.
#4
Calm down, it’s only the Internet.
#1
My aren’t you grumpy.
Men share a responsibility for Birth control, it takes 2 to tango, 2 to fight, 2 to fuck and in your case 1 to ………spew vitriolic opinions into an already overheated topic.
Somewhere within you’re rather strangely presented opinion you seem to be saying that men do not need to use condoms, or like much of the retarded unproductive ranting that surrounds much of this whole debate, am I taking you out of context?
My opinion? Abortion is an unfortunate necessity, I would personally prefer if it was never needed through sex and moral education, but acknowledge that situations needs arise where it is needed that are as unique as the individuals involved.
Sex and moral education? – well yes the two aren’t mutually exclusive, oh and teach the boys as well as the girls.
The problem with this kind of statement is that it does not take into the totality of circumstances at the individual level. When an individual enters into a social contract, they do not entirely retain the ability to have 100% control over their bodies. Instead, they are molded by social norms and public law.
Please do not take this statement as a misconception on my view of either birth control or abortion (i support both). However, one needs to be realistic and realize that freedom is not ultimate. It never has been and never will be. A lot of sex acts are not legal (homosexuality/oral) in some states. Further, suicide is forbidden under the law and so are extreme body modifications. How about drugs?
Clearly, freedom is an illusion. If abortion were believed to violate the societal norms it could be (and has been) banned. Law is nothing more than majoritarian thinking in a democracy (and often the majority is likely wrong on an issue).
“Law is nothing more than majoritarian thinking in a democracy (and often the majority is likely wrong on an issue).”
That’s supposed to be the reason for having a Constitution — to help mitigate the majority’s ability to force its desires and whims on the minority.
most of the hot botton social issues like abortion, drugs, prositution have been traditionally treated as “morals” issues and in reality they are health issues and we need to start treating them as such. we not only need to teach contraception but put more research money into better methods and dump more money into orgs like planned parenthood. getting the “moring after pill” available over the counter and “RU486” in place as the first option available to women for abortion rather than a medical option will be huge too. the key is to get women informed and make as many options available to them as possible. in the end the choice is theirs and no one elses anyway…. and the point i’m trying to make is this.. that should be the role of government anyway… to inform us as to what they know to be true and make options available to us… not to pass out dated morals laws that they have no right passing to begin with and can’t even hope enforce.
Make no mistake about it the religious right intends to go after contraception after they make abortion illegal. Ed over at Dispatches from the Culture War cites an article in the Chicago Tribune making the point.
I think abortion is one of those ‘least worst’ options. I’d rather it never happened but don’t think anyone is in a position to decide for someone ele one way or the other
#4: “i gotta take a break from this blog.”
That seems a wise decision.
While we are vaguely near the subject of sex education, check out ZeFranks monologue on the subject.
http://www.zefrank.com/theshow/archives/2006/04/041806.html
Sex ed is very much a part of the abortion debate, as much as the Right would like to separate the two. “Just say no” is an insane philosophy.
The abortion debate took a new turn for me when I saw my new (most likely daughter) moving her hands and legs on an ultrasound at 8 weeks. My sister recently had an abortion at 11 1/2 weeks. While I’m not going to call her a child murderer or anything like that. I have to say as my wife has ultrasounds every two weeks( she’s high risk), I was saddened at the loss of her baby, although somewhat relieved that she will not be a mother (she’s nowhere near ready). So still mixed feelings about it.
Everytime I read something posted by 0113addiv I feel like a genius. Though, in his post he points out that if I disagree with him it is only because I have been brainwashed and not my true opinion.
It is easy to prove that pregnancy is not 100% the woman’s responsibility. If the child is born then both parents are legally and financially responsible for it. (in Canada anyway) If I don’t want to be paying child support for the next 18 years, I take precautions when having sex, regardless of whether or not she says she’s on the pill.
Most women who claim to be Pro Choice are not. They are Pro Woman’s Choice. Answer these questions and see where you stand then. Abortion is defined as the termination of a pregnancy.
If a woman gets pregnant but doesn’t want the baby, should she be allowed to get an abortion?
If a woman gets pregnant and doesn’t want the baby, but the man does want the baby, should she be allowed to get an abortion?
If a woman gets pregnant and wants the baby but the man doesn’t want it, should HE be allowed to get an abortion?
If you are Pro Choice, was your answer to all three questions that the woman should get her way? Her body, her way?
#18
Or how about the choice that was made which resulted in her getting pregnant in the first place?
I agree with 0113addiv and Smartalix.
If women want freedom over their bodies, which I think they should have, they have to accept 100% responsibility for them. Except in cases of rape or incest they can decide with who and if they have sex.
Smartalix is correct. You have to teach contraception. Pretending that not knowing about sex is going to prevent people from experimenting with it is just plain stupid! it is natural and biological for these ideas to pop into our head during adolescence. So knowledge of how to be safe in your experimenting is only going to help prevent unwanted pregnancies and STD’s
Anyone who says they never thought about sex as teenager is a liar! You may not have acted on those thought but you wanted to. If you didn’t then you should seek psychological help.
I need to add to my above post
Men also should have 100% responsibility for their bodies. If they “donate” to a woman then they know once that baby is born that they have a responsibility to assist in its care. They however should not have any say in what is going on in that woman’s body. When the baby is born is when they both share responsibility.
Is this thread about abortion or the fact that a mag published the names?
Smarty, while the article is interesting, the real story is around how this is another misplaced exercise in feminism by women who are blind to the fact that female empowerment has lead to a reality they did not envision: One where Paris Hilton and Hillary Clinton are the most recognizable figures.
Abortion is simple: First trimester is fine, third trimester is fucked up. How many of the women on the list had third trimester abortions who weren’t pregnant through rape or incest, or were risking their own lives by otherwise continuing the pregnancy? And why do those women think they shouldn’t be jailed and/or fixed?
24,
“First trimester is fine, third trimester is fucked up.”
I agree with you there completely.
I would also be interested in knowing the stage of term when the abortion occurred, but I would wager that they were all early-term abortions or involved health reasons as the petitioners wouldn’t be as enthusiastic to proclaim their status.
To not know the question before proclaiming punishment is unwise, however. It smacks of a straw-man argument. What if none of the women had an abortion involving the negative scenario you described?
Sirfelix, this post is about both aspects. Feel free to weigh in on either point.
Sounds like addiv wants to f**k with abandon and at every opportunity.
Dogs have more self restraint.
Only part of the sex act I feel guilty about sometimes, is the children I have left behind. [portion of comment cut for violation of site guidelines – Ed.]
If men are responsible for pregnancies, then shouldn’t they also have a part in abortion decisions? Should they be able to dictate abortions against the woman’s will?
#25
That’s why I qualified my damnation. And if none of them fall under my guideline then good for them, but it still doesn’t invalidate my first point that they’re feminists with nothing better to do.
Also, this thread reminded me of the reason why Jay and Silent Bob were hanging out at an abortion clinic in Dogma: To meet loose women.
I have a girlfriend, thanks.
Abortion is murder. The death penalty is murder. You can’t be for or against one, without being for or against the other.
Ok….I’ve spouted my fantasy for the day…..carry on gentleman and ladies.
The list…..who cares? It only shows that far to many woman get abortions, and thats not news.
I would rather see a list of woman who had abortions that regretted it, or had psychological problems because of it. But I won’t, because thats not what feminists want to see.
Killing a suicide bomber is murder. Killing a rich man for his money is murder. You can’t be for one without being for the other.
I think lots of people favor killing babies and not killing criminals.