What A Terrorist Incident in Ancient Rome Can Teach Us – Pirates of the Mediterranean
IN the autumn of 68 B.C. the world’s only military superpower was dealt a profound psychological blow by a daring terrorist attack on its very heart. Rome’s port at Ostia was set on fire, the consular war fleet destroyed, and two prominent senators, together with their bodyguards and staff, kidnapped.
The incident, dramatic though it was, has not attracted much attention from modern historians. But history is mutable. An event that was merely a footnote five years ago has now, in our post-9/11 world, assumed a fresh and ominous significance. For in the panicky aftermath of the attack, the Roman people made decisions that set them on the path to the destruction of their Constitution, their democracy and their liberty. One cannot help wondering if history is repeating itself.
By the oldest trick in the political book — the whipping up of a panic, in which any dissenting voice could be dismissed as “soft” or even “traitorous” — powers had been ceded by the people that would never be returned. Pompey stayed in the Middle East for six years, establishing puppet regimes throughout the region, and turning himself into the richest man in the empire.
[…]
An intelligent, skeptical American would no doubt scoff at the thought that what has happened since 9/11 could presage the destruction of a centuries-old constitution; but then, I suppose, an intelligent, skeptical Roman in 68 B.C. might well have done the same.
Frank IBC
Why do you hate America so much?
Not quite. “The Dark Ages” were pretty much over by 1000 AD/CE. And their “darkness” has been somewhat exaggerated. The eastern half of the Roman Empire, which split from the western half in 395 AD/CE, 327 years after the incident which allegedly led to the fall of the latter, and lasted until 1453.
Small arms did not exist during that period.
Oh, duh…I read your post way too fast., Greg A. Please ignore my last sentence in #32. 🙁
What ON EARTH does that have to do with ROME, Tom? And that statement makes no sense whatever by itself, even if you take the reference to Rome out of it.
ALL governments become corrupt. It’s in the nature of politicians. Somehow we always seem to live though it though. Your sorted history is not unlike that of Canada’s, with the recent Liberal government our most despicable.
Whenever I hear that ‘this’ or ‘that’ puts us on the slippery slope to losing our freedoms, I have to laugh. That saying is as old as the hills and the slope has always maintained it’s integrity. Freedoms and liberties wane or strengthen with the stability of society. In times of war, rights in a democracy are sometimes compromised in the short term to assure it’s long term existence. But I seriously doubt that the USA or Canada will ever self destruct.
JimR
“But I seriously doubt that the USA or Canada will ever self destruct. ”
The Romans thought the same of Roman Empire.
Well, if Rome fell because its headlines were written in the wrong grammatical tense of their verbs, we are definitely on the downswing.
The title should read: “Are We Repeating History That Ledded To The Downfall Of Rome?” or some such.
Well, if Rome fell because its headlines were written in the wrong grammatical tense of their verbs, we are definitely on the downswing.
The title should read: “Are We Repeating History That Ledded To The Downfall Of Rome?” or some such.
Note to editor: Lead that sounds like Led is the shot, not the past tense of to lead, as in to be out front.
J, are you saying that we haven’t learned anything in the last 1500 years?
Hail Georgulus Bushatus!
#31: Why is your argument so weak you have to resort to baseless character assassination tactics? Page 1 of the Neocon handbook: question their character and shift the focus of the argument away from the issue at hand. Brilliant!
#31…J…Frank dosen’t hate America. I don’t think that there is an American in here that hates America. We may all have different perspective on whats wrong or right about the goverment or the citizens, but thats all it is….a different perspective.
I do agree with your rhectorical question to Malren though…..neither party is where it was during the Civil War or the Reconstruction period or during or after WWI or WWII or even the Vietnam war.
Political parties usually evolve, sometimes regress, but rarely stay the same.
But once again, I think trying to make a connection between Rome of 68 B.C. and the USA of today is stretching it. If you block out most relavent facts, you can say there are parallels, but you can do the same thing using The Ethiopean Empire or the Chinese Empire or just about any great power of the past…….all great powers go through similar periods. All great powers have great, mediocre, and lousy leaders, it’s a cycle. And all great powers had or have a citizenry that is mostly made up of followers, and if they have their basic needs(whatever they happen to be at any given time in history), met, then they are even less likely to be moved to rise up. Today, we have the vote and the idea that the vote counts for something is what keeps most people(and American Idol, and other reality shows) tied to their couches and not the barricades. It’s no coincidence that the real enthusiasim and excitment about goverment is in Nations that have only recently (last 20 years or so) obtained the right to have a real and meaningful vote.
#40…Nate……*j* isn’t a neo-con…..if anything he/she is a Liberal. j just likes to say that to Conservatives and Neo-cons.
“If we listened to them we would still have segregated schools.”
F***. Just f***. How f***ing stupid are today’s “progressives” that they don’t know the history of the goddamned civil rights movement?
Comment by malren — 10/1/2006 @ 10:32 am
malren, I guess you are the stupid one. Only the Republicans have damned the Civil Rights movement.
In living memory, the segregationists and racists all left the Democratic Party when Lynden Johnson passed the Civil Rights Act. They joined the Republicans. Very few, like Zel Miller, held out, hoping to bring back the glory days of white sheets.
Since the Civil Rights Act, it has been the Republican Party that has opposed affirmative action and desegregation of schools. Republicans have opposed equal pay. Republicans have opposed voter registration drives. Republicans have have constantly alienated Blacks.
You can try to implement gun control like they did in Canada. It cost 1 billion dollars (Multiply everything by 10 for the US) and is currently being thrown out as a useless waste – especially in view of recent Montreal shootings.
By the way, how did things work out for the US after that other historical attack on Pearl Harbor?
And in the photo above – is that an Arab terrorist with one of the World Trade buildings?
RBG
Yep, it’s the beginning of the end that started just after the vietnam war. All the signs are here for the end of an empire. Problem is, I think it will take about another 75-125 years for it to come and for americans to relize it. People usually living in a country that is ending don’t notice till it’s to late. Blind to the fact because they don’t look in the mirror.
Put a frog in a pan full of boiling water and the frog will try to jump out of it. However, if you manage to put a frog in a pan full of cold water and start heating it very slowly, the frog will boil to death without even noticing it. Human beings are very like frogs in many things.
Something somewhat related to the topic:
The Romans were fond of plumbing, and were especially enamored with a new maliable metal and subsequently Rome was outfitted with large amounts of fresh water pipe made of this wonder metal…
Lead.
There are a few scientific theories that Lead is at least partly to blame for the fall of the Roman empire.
#39 JimR
Well no. Just some of us.
#40 Natefrog
It is called giving them a taste of their own medicine to see how they like it. The best part is, unlike Democrats most Republicans don’t have an answer because they don’t really believe in the Constitution of America and would rather see the government run according to their religion or some sort of bias set of rules that are based in bigotry or hatred.
#41 Joshua
Yes he does. On numerous occasions he has defended policies that threaten the very constitution and ideals on which our government was founded
Malren is just confused because he/she doesn’t want to own up to the fact that his/her party of choice is filled with a bunch of racist, sexist, pedophiliacs.
#42 Joshua
It really is fun. Their lack of response tells volumes.
#46 Miguel Correla
Good analogy!
“Since the Civil Rights Act, it has been the Republican Party that has opposed affirmative action and desegregation of schools. Republicans have opposed equal pay. Republicans have opposed voter registration drives. Republicans have have constantly alienated Blacks.”
Or perhaps it’s that real Conservatives don’t believe it’s the government’s job (and more specifically, not at the federal level).
The government should in no way create or promote segregation, but the forced busing of students outside of their neighborhoods just so to create the illusion of diversity was complete insanity. And now I’ve seen cries again lately that schools are becoming “segregated” again because of peoples’ natural tendencies to group together based on ethnic and racial similarities, and what should be done about it. It’s not the government’s job to “fix” the so-called problems caused by peoples’ natural behavior.
As an aside, the general problem with this masturbatory promotion of everything dealing with diversity is that it reinforces the fact that we are all different. It’s difficult to then expect that everybody be treated the same when you insist on always pointing out that we aren’t.
Affirmative Action has its own set of problems that make it objectionable to Conservatives. For one, you can’t create equality by instituting a societal crutch that builds resentment in one group and has a side-effect of casting a shadow over the actual accomplishments and abilities of the other. If Liberals really cared so much about Blacks, they would do more to speak out about the harm from the various popular sub-cultures which promote the worship of flashy material wealth and degrading treatment of women, along with the more negatives affects of the dependence and poverty trap that the various Welfare institutions and the government’s “War on Poverty” have ironically helped perpetuate.
I don’t support or agree with discrimination, but as a Conservative, I also don’t support any form of anti-discrimination laws which force a particular desired behavior from private individuals and entities. Guess what, a real conservative wouldn’t support “hate crimes” laws either. Murder is murder (or also assault and battery), and one act of it shouldn’t be given more weight than another by the thought police just because of the skin color of the people involved.
Now that I’ve written all of this, I guess I should just concede that there isn’t much to like about the Republican Party these days from my perspective either. Silly me, I keep forgetting that “Republican” does not necessarily equal “Conservative” and it is certainly less-so today than in the past.
#46… “Put a frog in a pan full of boiling water and the frog will try to jump out of it. However, if you manage to put a frog in a pan full of cold water and start heating it very slowly, the frog will boil to death without even noticing it. Human beings are very like frogs in many things.”
A laughable analogy… as overused as the “slippery slope”. Maybe you consider yourself as dumb as a frog, but a normal human with the ability to reason would get out of the hot water before it became too uncomfortable.
The frog analogy has been studied. The frog hops out of the water as it gets hot. Throwing a frog in boiling water gets you boiled frog. I was hoping to find more scientific evidence of this, and the snopes page is gone. But I found this link on the issue.
http://www.uga.edu/srel/ecoview11-18-02.htm
The situation in USA today is reflective of the frog that is in water that is geting hotter, but the frog can’t get out. It just so happens the news media keeps telling the frogs “Come on in! The water is great.”
#50 JimR
REALLY? Ever know any drug addicts?
#51 GreagA
While it is true that Frogs will just die in boiling water the point of Miguel Correla “analogy” is that it is much easier to invoke change when it is done gradually. Human behavior is evidence of such statements as documented by history. Ever tried to stay on a diet? Ever tried to give up something? The essance of the “analogy” is true!
It starts like this – “If we give up just this one right we’ll be safe”. Two months later – “We have had some success, but we need to abridge this other pesky civil right and we’ll lick ’em for sure”.
Years later – “Your papers please!”
This is where GWB and the neocons are sending the US. Sadly as Miguel pointed out – the water is heating up.
gquaglia, and Frank and others – when will you jump out? Look around you. You look at motes and miss the beams.
No, no. C’mon you guys. It’s more like a Blue-footed Booby eating a Chicken McNugget without the right sauce…
RBG
J, oh please. You are comparing apples to oranges. Getting chemically addicted to a substance is not the same as having free will and knowledge. Your argument is like saying that if some people get addicted then eventually everyone will get addicted. Ridiculous. Addiction has been around since man discovered poppies. By now EVERYONE should have slipped down that “slippery slope” according to your reasoning.
Here’s a better analogy. if I approach you slowly but menacingly with a stick from far away but clearly in sight, will you ignore the threat when I get close just because I approached slowly?
#49 Mike
It is the governments job to uphold the constitution.
Anti discrimination laws don’t apply to private individuals and entities They apply entities like schools & businesses which for the most part are public.
Your 4th paragraph reeks of bigotry. Not all African Americans listen to rap music. Many African Americans remain poor because they, even with an education, find it more difficult to get those high paying jobs that many incompetent white men get. Don’t pretend to understand “The Black Man” until you have spent time with them talking to them and hearing what they have to say.
As far as worship of flashy material wealth and degrading treatment of women. I know a lot of wealthy white men that have the same problems.
“Murder is murder”
Your lack of understanding of the law really undermines your argument. Murder of a Anglo American guy by another Anglo American is not always the same. There is 1st degree, 2nd degree, Manslaughter……….and so on. You see not always the same and not all have the same sentence.
The reason Hate crimes exist is to protect victims in cases where the local government is racist. It gives the victim another avenue to get justice. Why would you not support that? Are you against justice? Don’t pretend that it doesn’t still happen!
I will agree with you on the fact that the republican party doesn’t really follow the conservative agenda
The quote”
If you dont study and Know history, you will repeat the past.
Good or bad. there are tell-tale signs of Good and bad happening. We search the past to SEE the ramifications of what has occured, and find a solution, if possible.
WE elected this person, Even if you did not vote. THIS is the choice made. Live with it, or do something about it.
If you wish a say in government, then SPEAK UP.
JimR
Don’t you think people who become addicts have free will Jim? Free will is an Illusion Jim. So, apparently is your knowledge.
You make a lot of assumptions about what I am saying and they are all wrong. You also draw false conclusions on what you think you understood. Stop pretending to understand and go take a class on reading comprehension.
“if I approach you slowly but menacingly with a stick from far away but clearly in sight, will you ignore the threat when I get close just because I approached slowly”
This statement is evidence that you really don’t know what you are arguing against.
J, typical reaction when you don’t have an intellectual response. Attack your challenger with childish retorts, rather than clarify your position or meaning.
#59 JimR
Hey I’m just doing what the Republicans do. I thought you would appreciate it.
Besides why would I need to clarify when you think to have it all figured out .