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We will be greeted as liberators.
Dick Cheney should be made to drive this truck route every day until the “war on terror” is over.
Take heed from the Philippine Revolution in the 1900’s. My country was conquered then by USA in a decade. How was it done?
*Was it the 150,000 ground troops sent in by McKinley to fight the Filipino revolutionaries (compared to the 25,000 or so ground troops in Iraq now)? No!
*Was it the no-rules approach to pacifying the locals by using torture methods such as water cure, literally feeding pigs blood to muslim resistors, burning the food supply and using scorched earth policy on whole villages (compared to the shock and awe approach of Rumsfeld) No!
The reason U.S. succeeded then compared to now was that the U.S. sided with one of the ethnic groups to pacify the country along side the Americans-the Kapampangan ethnic group. These ethnic group went all the way in capturing the leader of the Philippine revolution (Aguinaldo) to burning the rest of the country side, to putting down the Muslim resistance. The Kapampangans are just one of more than 70 ethnic groups, but one is all you need to help the Americans subdue the rest of the groups.
Given that there are only three major ethnic groups in Iraq right now, the U.S. could well choose to side with one of the groups (either the Sunni, Shiite, or the Kurds) to pacify the two others. Do this and watch how quickly Iraq will fall into the hands of U.S.A. Think about it yanks.
Bash!
This video was pretty interesting.
I can tell you from past experience (I’ve said on here before, two tours to Iraq, what a funtastic place), that this was your typical FUBAR situtaion.
It’s pretty sick that the VANG guys ditched the truckers, especially since they were Americans (although it shouldn’t have mattered who they were, you don’t just leave someone like that).
Back in 2004 there was quite a bit of animosity towards contractors, even though many of them were ex-military. It seemed like the general feeling was that outside the wire the contractors were on their own. It has a lot to do with the resentment alot of the younger military guys felt over the whole wage issue.
My opinion?
Contractors knew exactly what they were getting into. Though I don’t get the “no weapons” thing. Every contract trucker I saw was armed. I feel terrible for them, but they’re part of the bigger picture – fatcat businessmen getting rich off of the war.
Blah.
2 long, long years before Bush, Cheney and Rumsfield are gone
Or not.
Nehemiah Scudder lives.
Other stories about the truckers
http://tinyurl.com/ozepu
http://tinyurl.com/e93ky
One day, eventually, America will learn to mind its own damned business and stay out of countries that hate it.
30: on 9/12/01 90% of the world was in our palm. Bush’s (Rove’s) decisions since then lost all that, rather than capitalizing on it.
In the end, a single superpower can get along a helluva lot better if the majority of the world likes us, if we do the right things. If a single superpower is widely hated, the superpower isn’t going to be so super for long. World opinion on major issues DOES matter in the long run. On the little stuff it doesn’t matter.
I hope you all read History Guy’s post because he’s right on. I have always thought we either leave or side with the Shiites or the Kurds.
Right now the right thing to do would be to side with the Shiites against the Sunnis & leave the Kurds alone – it could potentially throw a big wrench in Iran’s and Syria’s plans in the hood if the US was seen to support the Shiite’s.
Its not that he was fired after going through all this that is horrible, its the fact that he was fired for getting INJURED!
That is absolutely insane!
Like we sided with Bin Ladens army against the Soviets. He was our buddy, a CIA asset. That turned out great.
#22, Answer those questions first, then you can cite the end of Western civilization or this as clear reason to vote for Hillary.
RBG
Comment by RBG — 9/28/2006 @ 8:25 pm
whoa there cowgirl. YOU answer the question. Why did American soldiers run from a convoy they were there were to protect. At least two American drivers were killed by the insurgents after they ran.
Answer those questions first if you want to qualify as something more then a Rumsfeld cracker.
#44 Sag I agree.
Those contractors are making top dollar battle pay and I can’t fully blame the U.S. soldiers for getting the F out of there. They were outnumbered and outgunned and could have all been killed in that kind of ambush. Still, watching that video on Nightline two days ago made me sick. Reminded me of the Black Hawk crew and Humvee convoy massacre in Somalia during the Clinton years…
Those contractors are making top dollar battle pay and I can’t fully blame the U.S. soldiers for getting the F out of there.
So what does the amount of pay that have to do with anything?
They were outnumbered and out gunned and could have all been killed in that kind of ambush.
So they ran. They ran and left unarmed civilians to be killed. The ones with the weapons and armored vehicles drove off as fast as they could. They didn’t even make an attempt then or later to help the wounded, abandoned driver or the murdered drivers.
The convoy became out gunned AFTER the army left them stranded and unarmed.
Reminded me of the Black Hawk crew and Humvee convoy massacre in Somalia during the Clinton years…
In Black Hawk Down in Mogadishu, the Americans didn’t cut and run even though greatly out numbered. They did their best to rescue their buddies and friends. They didn’t get into this bull crap about setting up a perimeter away from the attacked convoy.
I am still sickened at those who can find anything to excuse the Army’s behavior here. If those are standing orders then our military is in worse shape then imagined.
There is only one way to spell Iraq
C-L-U-S-T-E-R-F-U-C-K
And tell me anyone who supports our presence in Iraq, when we “won” the war. WHAT THE FUCK DID WE WIN? What was the prize?
“We got Saddam”
Oh shit! That really turned the tide didn’t it!
43. Well, it’s quite easy for me to spell it out for you since I am half a world and half a universe away from the fight.
“12 big trucks and 5 military vehicles.” That left 9 big trucks to protect in a shooting war. Do they stop the entire convoy to shoot it out? Clearly at least most of the rest of the trucks and drivers would have been added to the casualty list. The local commander made the decision to get the bulk of the convoy out of the line of fire and continue to protect it as they made a run for it – not knowing what else might then be coming at them. I’ll bet the other 9 drivers appreciated that.
That’s how convoys work. The idea of a convoy is that there is a certain safety in numbers because the enemy can’t take you all down in one go. That’s exactly how it worked with the North Atlantic convoys during the Second World War. Everyone knew that a certain small percentage of the convoyed ships would be left for enemy canon fodder – or more correctly, torpedo fodder.
The fact that their HQ did not order all or some of the military vehicles back in for a rescue but rather called in attack helicopters attests to the fact that the convoy commander made the expected decision under fire.
It’s very ironic that the post above should bring up Mogadishu as some kind of correct example. I recall two guys volunteering to go in to rescue a Blackhawk pilot against a mob. They were dragged naked and dead through the streets for their efforts. They were certainly among the bravest people I know about. I wonder how their families see it?
And then there was the ending where a fully armored rescue mission charges off leaving a half dozen US soldiers to have to run back on their own under fire.
RBG
“12 big trucks and 5 military vehicles.” That left 9 big trucks to protect in a shooting war.
What shooting war? Remember, Mission Accomplished? We have enough troops for the job? Our troops have all the best equipment they need?
That’s exactly how it worked with the North Atlantic convoys during the Second World War.
No that isn’t how the convoys worked. The escorts would be actively searching for the enemy and doing their best to destroy them. I am unaware of any convoy escort that cut and ran from a fight.
The fact that their HQ did not order all or some of the military vehicles back in for a rescue but rather called in attack helicopters attests to the fact that the convoy commander made the expected decision under fire.
Wrong. It demonstrates the disorganization of the whole mission. They were only a short distance from their base and it took 40 minutes for help to arrive.
There were insurgents shooting at the convoy. The American soldiers ran from the scene instead of protecting or even leaving some of the escort to protect the downed trucks. Maybe the soldiers followed orders, but their commanders should be charged with cowardice and desertion.
What this detachment did is a stain on the whole contingent of men and women in Iraq.
#2, Perhaps it was precisely for things like what you’re suggesting that stuff like this happens! Remember Abhu Grahib? Violence generates violence. And by the way, what the hell is America doing in Iraq? There were no WMD, so this is all stupid. Don’t you think America would be doing much better in concentrating itself in Afghanistan, another war, this one an entirely legitimate one, which you are no longer winning?
49. As far as I’m concerned “Mission Accomplished” was a bit of worthwhile psychological warfare that failed against the enemy.
My point with the ship convoys is that the convoy theory and practice was to expect and accept a certain number of sure losses in support of the rest.
If they were a short distance from their base – wouldn’t it also be just a short distance for a more powerful ground rescue mission to be initiated? The brass chose not to do that. I say the escorting military vehicles were designed only to discourage enemy attacks along a non-built up route – not intense rescue. They accidently went beyond their capabilities. “A man’s gotta know his limitations” said Clint Eastwood in one of his movies. They shouldn’t have to sacrifice themselves in the name of your John Wayne fantasy.
RBG
#46 Neocon:
So what does the amount of pay that have to do with anything?
Do you not understand the concept of battle pay? They are getting paid WAY above regular salary for driving a truck because the potential risk of death is very real. When I worked for the DoD during the 1st Gulf War, they were advertising job openings in Kuwait & Saudi at double the going rate including full room/board. Do the math.
So they ran. They ran and left unarmed civilians to be killed. The ones with the weapons and armored vehicles drove off as fast as they could. They didn’t even make an attempt then or later to help the wounded, abandoned driver or the murdered drivers.
I am not excusing the soldiers’ actions, but even armored Humvees are not made to fight against RPGs and sustained direct gunfire. A big shootout would have been a losing proposition, especially since it looked like a giant crossfire.
The convoy became out gunned AFTER the army left them stranded and unarmed.
The contract drivers were unarmed. They were outgunned from the git go.
I am still sickened at those who can find anything to excuse the Army’s behavior here. If those are standing orders then our military is in worse shape then imagined.
I am not excusing their actions, but I can understand them. There’s a difference. Under the circumstances, the hard choice made probably resulted in the least casualties possible. It sounds like you would have rathered the entire convoy and escort stopped for the 2 wounded trucks, got into a big shootout, and been slaughtered.
Max Bell how does my statement have to do with Darwins theories perhaps your the one who shouldnt be allowed to breed
I Cannot belive i’m hearing this crap from the United States people. Get your butts in gear and make a diffrence or be one of those left behind. I serve and have faith that this country and its free speaking people will make the right choice. Quit bitiching and do somthing! I love this country and have served for 20 plus years. I raise my children love family and God. Honor nation and do the right thing.