Associated Press – August 31, 2006:
After the Sept. 11 suicide hijackings, distraught U.S. Muslim leaders feared the next casualty would be their religion.
Islam teaches peace, they told anyone who would listen in news conferences, at interfaith services and, most famously, standing in a mosque with President Bush.
But five years later, the target audience for their pleas has shifted. Now the faith’s American leaders are starting to warn fellow Muslims about a threat from within.
Muslim leaders point to two stark examples of the new mind-set:
* A Canadian-born Muslim man worked with police for months investigating a group of Islamic men and youths accused in June of plotting terrorist attacks in Ontario. Mubin Shaikh said he feared any violence would ultimately hurt Islam and Canadian Muslims.
* In England, it’s been widely reported that a tip from a British Muslim helped lead investigators to uncover what they said was a plan by homegrown extremists to use liquid explosives to destroy U.S.-bound planes.
It’s a good start. After all, the most important thing for immigrants – no matter of background – is to become a part of the society and work for its betterment.
I am so tired of hearing that Islam is the religion of peace. Where exactly are all these “moderate” muslims we keep hearing about?
Is there a single country in the world where muslims are a majority or a significant minority living in peace? Not that I know of.
Has there been a single terrorist attack since 911 that was not commited by muslims in the name of Islam? Not that I know of.
Isolated incidents. Its widley known that many terrorist cells and groups operate within Mosques here in the US and abroad. They preach peace one minute, then secretly plan to kill you the next. Look at Saudi Arabia. The government states that it is against terrorism and supports the US all the while doing nothing about its growing fundalmentist movement where you children are indocrinated with the belief that all non muslims are infidals and must be killed. Maybe a few will turn, but the majority probably suports the terrorist is some small way.
How many more bombs of love and peace do we need to drop on these hypocritical muslims?
We need to get the naive “religion of peace” out of our collective head. There are many peaceful muslims and thank God for them; but they’re not living out all the Quran teaches. In the Quran non-muslisms should have only 1 of 3 fates: conversion, taxation and 2nd class citizenship, or death for those who refuse to accept the first two.
It’s clear why the fundamentalist muslisms are the terrorists…they actually practice what the Quran preaches.
That will happen right after the mainstream Christians do something about Fundamentalis Christians (i.e. NEVER)
That will happen right after the mainstream Christians do something about Fundamentalis Christians (i.e. NEVER)
Last time I checked, fundamentalist Christians aren’t calling for the death or all non believers. They also aren’t looking to blow up thousands of these non believers either. Don’t get me wrong, I detest all organized religion and the history of man is full of death associated with religion, but don’t mix apples and oranges Mr Wong.
@gquaglia
Mr. Wong has a valid point. When was the last time you heard mainstream Christians publicly denounce Pat Robertson? My neighbor is a fundamentalist Christian, who loves wishing death upon Muslims. Let’s face the fact… fanatics exists in all religions.
Has there been a single terrorist attack since 911 that was not commited by muslims in the name of Islam? Not that I know of.
Comment by BdgBill — 8/31/2006 @ 4:22 pm
Someone doesn’t pay attention to the news very much. Less then a month ago, ISRAEL was bombing Lebanese civilians in order to force them from southern Lebanon. Then we have many instances of AMERICAN soldiers and Marines shooting Iraqi civilians simply because they were driving on the wrong street or had a wedding. There are RUSSIAN troops murdering, raping, and ruining Chechnya.
Oh, right, I forgot. They don’t count because they were attacks against Muslims.
BTW, BdgBill, I understand your bigotry, but the correct spelling is to capitalize Muslim. The same for Jew, Buddhist, or Christian.
gquaglia,
They also aren’t looking to blow up thousands of these non believers either.
*ahem*
“Maybe we need a very small nuke thrown off on Foggy Bottom to shake things up”
Pat Robertson and others may not preach like UBL, but you can be sure they’re thinking it.
Alright, a lively bunch here tonight.
I am an atheist.
My wife is a VERY conservative OLD SCHOOL Lutheran, but she doesn’t want to blow me up. In fact everyone at her church likes me because I provide and maintain their computers. They simply thank me and mention that God works in mysterious ways. For me, it makes my wife happy, and a happy wife is a horn….. never mind.
If Islam is the religion of peace, why do so many Muslims want to blow us up? There is a fundamental flaw somewhere in their teachings if so many Muslims can be so easily swayed to violence.
There are crazy nutjob extremists in every segment of society. Why do the crazy nutjobs in the Muslim community have so much sway?
Don
Right about when Christians unite to combat USA imperialism
Granted, Pat Robertson says some moronic things. I am a Christian, but he does not speak for me. It’s a shame that so many people see him as the representation of Christians in the US. But until he encourages suicide bombings (it could happen) on innocent civilians he shouldn’t be equated with fundamentalist Islamic leaders.
But until he encourages suicide bombings on innocent civilians he shouldn’t be equated with fundamentalist Islamic leaders.
Why should the qualifier of “suicide” make a difference? (or bombing for that matter.) Both Pat Robertson and Osama encourage the killing of civilians in the promotion of their twisted ideology. One via suicide missions, the other through a government-sponsored military.
Why do so many Muslims want to blow us up?
It might be that they have been treated abominably over the last 50 years or more. How would Americans have reacted if (say) Florida had been given over to foreign settlers? or Brits if it had happened to Cornwall?
I’m not surprised the Palestinians are upset, and I’m not surprised that they have persuaded their fellow Muslims to be upset on their behalf. Who else is there to look out for their interests?
Similarly look at the way oil props up regimes that would otherwise be treated as odious.
We’ve all seen the films of how Americans are supposed to react when their rights are compromised think about Independence Day, say and ‘over my cold dead body’ is a phrase that springs to mind.
If enough people have a grievance – real or imagined – sooner or later there will be enough to fight for it.
As an old hippy I believe in peace love and understanding but as an aging middle class white man I understand that people will fight back.
As #5 said above, according to the Koran, everyone must a: convert, b: be subjugated, or c: be killed. Look at history. When Islam came into existence in the Middle Ages the first thing they did was launch an battle/campaign to take over the known world. They almost succeeded, taking northern Africa, the Middle East, and into Europe as far as Spain and France. Saying that Islam is a religion of peace just doesn’t fly with me, from what I can see it has always been a religion of war and domination.
#5 and #16
Its easy to find many quotes in any religious text that sounds extreme by todays standards. These are writtings written 1500 years ago. The bible;even older than that. It was a different time then. Its too easy to simply point to some quote and claim the religion preaches violence.
There are nut jobs in every religion. People that follow any text literally without using their own brains are the problem. Be they Muslim, Christians or any other religion. If you can’t think for yourself, you’re the problem.
Why are there more Muslim’s swayed by these lunatics/ Excellent question. We don’t know the lifestyles there. We don’t know what’s going through the minds of the recruits. They are likely angered by the actions of the US over the past 50 years. If they weren’t already, they are tought to be.
Forgive a likely controversial analogy.
What would people in Iraq be asking about these Americans hurting and killing their people. They’re asking the same question. How did they get convinced to do this? How were they swayed to join this force that’s hurting us?
A recruitment story:
Many recruits are pressured into joining the military. They do it for a combination of patriotism, money and a few other things.
Patriotism – They are convinced what they are doing is right. Regardless of wether it is or not, that’s what they believe.
Money – Many are living below or near the poverty line. It makes sense to join the military.
So these soldiers are recruited to fight for the cause.
This story applies to many American soldiers. It could be the exact same story for these Muslims being “swayed”.
The point is, there are many reasons this could be going on. It would be simply ignorant to assume they are doing this because they are “fundamentalist Muslims”, or because they “hate our freedom”.
my 2c
A wise friend of mine taught me that Christians were doing some pretty horrible things, both internally and externally, 6-700 years ago, before reformers helped them through those times. The question seems to be will similar forces have time to prevail in Islam.
How many million adhere to the Islamic faith? And they found TWO to write about.
Why are there more Muslim’s swayed by these lunatics/ Excellent question.
In general, adherence to religious dogma of any stripe is inversely proportional to education. The less educated a group is, the more likely they are to simply accept, without much thought, whatever their parents and other authority figures tell them. I mean, in the absence of any alternate point of view, what are they going to do, make up their OWN belief systems? (I include science as a belief system as well.)
Polarization and fanaticism are the real enemies. And until the majority of people world-wide get that through their heads we are not safe.
Anyone, regardless of religion, that lives in poverty and desparation deep enough will be willing to die for any cuase that promises a better life for having done so.
Many muslim nations have huge populations of poor under educated people. This is the breeding ground for fanatics and suicide bombers and the like. And this is one of the many things we have to address and combat to really win a war with terrorism. When the gulf between the haves and the have-nots gets big enough violence and revolution ensue.
We have to stop wishing for a easy, or a purely military answer and address the real hard issues, the long term problems that have lead us to this juncture in time.
#2 “Is there a single country in the world where muslims are a majority or a significant minority living in peace? Not that I know of.”
Turkey. 99% Muslim.
Has there been a single terrorist attack since 911 that was not commited by muslims in the name of Islam? Not that I know of.
Comment by BdgBill — 8/31/2006 @ 4:22 pm
Someone doesn’t pay attention to the news very much. Less then a month ago, ISRAEL was bombing Lebanese civilians in order to force them from southern Lebanon. Then we have many instances of AMERICAN soldiers and Marines shooting Iraqi civilians simply because they were driving on the wrong street or had a wedding. There are RUSSIAN troops murdering, raping, and ruining Chechnya.
Oh, right, I forgot. They don’t count because they were attacks against Muslims.
BTW, BdgBill, I understand your bigotry, but the correct spelling is to capitalize Muslim. The same for Jew, Buddhist, or Christian.
Comment by Mr. H. Fusion — 8/31/2006 @ 6:20 pm
Mr H. Fusion – Since you keep so current on the news you should remember that just about 2 months ago there was not a single Isreali soldier on Lebanese soil. Hezbollah terorists (who are supported whole heartedly by the people and the government of Lebanon) decided to cross the border into Isreal and kill and kidnap Isreali soldiers.
These terrorists are cowards that hide behind women and children for protection. If you fire rockets from an apartment building into another country you can expect said apartment building to be blown up momentarily. These terrorists could have prevented the death of a single civilian by putting on uniforms and fighting like men.
I do not blame Isreal for one second for what happened in Lebanon. You can be sure that if San Diego was being shelled from Tijuana that Tijuana would be quickly removed from the map.
Christians, Muslims, and other religions have slipped into the “dark side” on too many occasions. Christians have slaughtered Muslims (Crusades) and each other (Inquisition, wars during and after the Reformation, Northern Ireland, Yugoslavia). Muslims have slain Christians/Jews/whatever in the past for not converting to Islam. Catholics and Orthodox have battled in the past. And everyone has killed the Jews (one reason they’re so pugnacious now).
These aren’t the only religious wars out there. The Pakistan/India low level conflict is inherently religious. Buddhists seem to be more peaceful than most other religions, but there have probably been wars involving them as well.
If people of the various faiths (and those of no belief or very personal ones) could leave everyone to their own beliefs, we might have a better world. I’m not too optimistic, though.
A good sign that some Muslims are joining the fight, especially as Democrats are abandoning it.
Just because they fight or terrorise in the name of Islam does not mean Islam is the culprit. Muslims do everything in the name of Islam.
“Islamic based terrorism”, as you call it, is almost always in response to Western acts of terrorism.
If Bush or Cheney have a different take, it is quite understandable. I don’t understand why ordinary folk in America do not get the truth.
The U.S. is the biggest terrorist in the world!
You need read some newspapers that covers foreign news.
#24, BdgBill
Even though Israel vacated southern Lebanon over two years ago, Israeli commandos constantly raided across the border to kidnap or assassinate Lebanese citizens. Somehow the Israeli apologists like you forget or overlook that.
Fire rockets from what apartment buildings? That is propaganda bull crap. The United Nations, Amnesty International, Red Crescent, and other human rights organizations ALL reported that Israel was deliberately targeting civilian installations without cause. They attacked United Nations outposts that reported the targeting of civilians. They blew up bridges that refugees were fleeing the violence were crossing. They destroyed the airport the foreigners were trying to leave Lebanon through.
As for fighting like men, did the Israelis fight like men? I don’t think an F-16 dropping a 2000 kg bomb on an apartment building is fighting like a man. Rolling up in a 60 ton Abrams tank is manly. I don’t think firing depleted uranium shells is manly. I don’t think blowing up humanitarian relief trucks is manly. I don’t think kidnapping and holding indefinitely thousands of civilians is manly.
I know you don’t blame Israel. Sociopaths like yourself live in such a blind state that that violence against the weak delights them. But as I pointed out before, you don’t think anything done against Muslims could ever be a terrorist act.
Let me get this straight. Pat Robertson thinks some government should “take out” Hugo Chavez … and that is a bad thing?
PS. Anyone else think Mr. H. Fusion may be a muslim?
Mr H isn’t a Muslim, he just hates Israel.
It is okay to hate Muslims or Venezuelans but it is not okay to criticise Israel? That’s the problem with debate in the U.S. Losers become sore losers.