I’m a BIG technology advocate, but I believe Monsanto is going too far with this evil shit. Yes, I said evil. To prevent a farmer’s seed from previous harvests from germinating just to maintain a strong grip on the marketplace is sick, and one strong reason GM food is looked at with distrust and hatred in the rest of the world. Terminator technology or anything that disrupts the proper development of any plant should be illegal.
The United States Government has been financing research on a genetic engineering technology which, when commercialized, will give its owners the power to control the food seed of entire nations or regions. The Government has been working quietly on this technology since 1983. Now, the little-known company that has been working in this genetic research with the Government’s US Department of Agriculture– Delta & Pine Land– is about to become part of the world’s largest supplier of patented genetically-modified seeds (GMO), Monsanto Corporation of St. Louis, Missouri.
Relations between Monsanto, Delta & Pine Land and the USDA, on closer scrutiny, show the deep and dark side of the much-heralded genetic revolution in agriculture. It proves deep-held suspicions that the Gene Revolution is not about ‘solving the world hunger problem’ as its advocates claim. It’s about handing over control of the seeds for mankind’s basic food supply—rice, corn, soybeans, wheat, even fruit, vegetables and cotton—to privately owned corporations. Once the seeds and their use are patented and controlled by one or several private agribusiness multinationals, it will be they who can decide whether or not a particular customer—let’s say for argument, China or Brazil or India or Japan—whether they will or won’t get the patented seeds from Monsanto, or from one of its licensee GMO partners like Bayer Crop Sciences, Syngenta or DuPont’s Pioneer Hi-Bred International.
Beyond protecting intellectual property, this is all about greed, plain and simple. In the case of hybrid crops, farmers have to buy new seed regularly anyway to maintain the strain purity. What Monsanto and others want to do is turn farms into agricultural factories that buy everything from seed to chemicals from them every season.
Smartalix, I really agree with you on this one. The power these companies hold over our food supply is actually quite dangerous. Trust me, I have seen it from the inside of one of these giants where I worked on a large, two year IT project in the late 90s.
I vote with my dollars and support local organic farmers where possible and also support a seed saver in Texas…
Genetic modification has been going on for thousands of years. Are you saying that crossbreeding plants naturally is evil too?
‘Terminator technology or anything that disrupts the proper development of any plant should be illegal.’
How do you think you get nice plump tomatoes? Those berries you eat with your ice cream don’t get juicy and sweet without some sort of intervention or cross breeding you know.
You need to do some more research before making sweeping statements like those.
On the other hand I agree about the terminator technology. It’s a way of generating a dependency with farmers on the technology owners by forcing farmers to buy more seeds at the end of each crop harvest. This would negate most of the benefits for the farmer growing potentially usefull GM crops in developing and developed countries.
Genetically modifying seeds just so other people can plant seeds from your food is protectionist greed. Although, I will say that technically you are already banned from doing so. If Mr. Small Farmer, buys some genetically modified food at the local grocery and uses it to plant his own field, the source company is within their rights to sue.
Genetically modifying food is not evil. However, doing so purely to prevent other people from using the seeds is.
We’ve had a case here in Canada(not with terminater, but herbicide resistant seed) where a farmer was sued by Monsanto claiming he used their canola seed. He claimed that pollen blew in from a neighbour’s filed and contaminated his crop.
Monsanto has incentitve programs encouraging people to rat on their neighbours. Nice guys eh?
The genie is out of the bottle on canola and cannot be put back. If you live near someone growing GM canola you are suspect and open to such action as well.
If the terminator gene got out into the wild it would be a huge disaster. A chemical company controlling the food supply is bad for everyone except the companies and their investers.
KJ,
Terminator technology is not a natural process of cross-breeding nor selective breeding. It’s purely a greed based initiative that does not do anyone any good but Monsanto…
Now, let’s say that you have two farmers fields, one natural and one terminator. You know cross pollination happens as long as there is wind, bees rain and other natural occurances. What happens when terminator blows over to the natural field and starts cross breeding?
Hi, I wasn’t defending termintator gene technology. I was simply saying that not all genetic engineering/cross breeding is evil. I also understand the contamination and cross pollination issues and I have difficulty trusting those who say safe zones work because you simply cant account for special circumstances where GM pollen finds it way further than the boundaries of the safe zone.
#4 – Doesn’t the farmer have a right to sue monsanto for polluting his crops with their pollen. Surely there whould be some more rigid controls on GM food products.
Once farmers stop receiving government subsidies (welfare) I’ll start to care about their plight a bit more than I currently do.
Terminator = DRM for food. Time to get the torches and pitch forks I think.
Monsanto creates a corn that they sell for a a price that both Monsanto and the farmer agrees upon. As part of that agreement the farmer understands that he cannot use the corn as seed corn for the next planting.
To make sure the farmer sticks to his agreement Monsanto designs in a way to confirm that the farmer doesn’t use the corn in a way not in keeping with the agreement.
Would you guys be happier if Monsanto when out and checked the next year half way through the growing season and then got a court order to have the farmers fields cleared of the STOLEN corn?
Oh… I forgot.
“Terminator technology or anything that disrupts the proper development of any plant should be illegal.”
There is nothing any more natural about this food than there is about the car in your driveway.
The genetic and cross breading of crops is what makes America the bread basket of the world.
Just to clarify. I am NOT against GM food. I am against this “terminator” technology. A barn full of vitamin-enriched corn is a good thing. A barn full of corn that won’t germinate is sick.
#10,
Of course all business contracts between conglomerates and small business is equitable and beneficial to the small business, right? There are such things as using strong-arm methods to maintain market share (such as the terminator tech).
Monsanto genetically modifies a widely available seed (in this case, a corn seed) and invests millions of dollars to make a new seed that is highly valuable to farmers. Monsanto does not want you to make pirated copies their seeds, but rather they want you to buy the seed from them. Is that wrong?
They’re installing copy protection in their seeds, no different than software developers preventing their intellectual property from being pirated by using copy protection. If you don’t like software that is copy protected, don’t buy it. If you don’t like Monsanto’s copy protected seeds, don’t buy them. It’s not like Monsanto’s seeds are the only seeds available.
And before you start on the poor starving people arguement, just like drug companies, Monsanto charges developing nations a lower price for their seeds than developed countries. These companies aren’t being greedy, they are protecting their intellectual property and try to get a return on their investment. If you think that’s wrong, then may I suggest you move to a Communist country where those with abilities can support those with needs. I understand there’s no starvation in North Korea or Cuba. (cough)
Food is cheaper in America (with its greedy corporations) then anywhere else in the world. Wake up.
Why is it that the common answer to problems with business is to leave the country?
If Monsanto makes a good product, they’ll get repeat business. Companies that use proprietary technology to control customer use are not supporting a free market. As Improbus pointed out, Terminator tech is DRM for food, and we all know how good DRM has been for the music industry.
The aspect I have problems with is that the seed is essentially dead if you do not use their “unlocking” tech. To extend ownership of seed to the generation beyond the sale is not protecting IP, it is an attempt to control the farmer and turn the farm into a non-funded subsiduary of your company.
Our advances in agriculture were not based on this technology, and it offers no benefit to the farmer or the consumer.
In America one is entitled to free speech. If you don’t like that, why don’t you leave the country?
13: “They’re installing copy protection in their seeds, no different than software developers preventing their intellectual property from being pirated by using copy protection. If you don’t like software that is copy protected, don’t buy it. If you don’t like Monsanto’s copy protected seeds, don’t buy them.”
There is a problem with your comparison. The GM seeds are more like DRM that can protect random files on other computers. The pollen can move and blow around and protect other people’s seeds.
CAT FIGHT….
I’m going to have to disagree with the groupthink here but I think fear of this kind of seed-control technology is ridiculous. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with Monsanto keeping tabs on who’s using their seeds. I guess we kind of forgot about the whole concept of a free market… Farmers aren’t being forced to buy Monsanto’s seeds! They’re free to buy them from another company, or just use natural ones. Jeez…
” …anything that disrupts the proper development of any plant should be illegal. ”
Isnt the breeding and culling of plants over thouseands of years becasue of specific desirable charactaristics illegal by definition then?
you damn yourself, and all of us with you.
David,
This is not about Monsanto tracking usage. There’s nothing wrong with that. What’s wrong is that Monsanto wants to integrate technology that prevents seeds from sprouting unless you use their chemicals on it. That means that if a farmer buys seed legally and uses it in his fields, he cannot use a portion of his crop as seed for the next season.
That’s where the evil greed comes in.
thought police, by normal development, I mean you put a seed in the ground and it grows. Hybridization and even outright GM implementation has to do with a plant’s properties, not its growth. If I buy seed from you, that should be the end of the transaction. You should not be able to dictate what I do with the crop I grow from those seeds.
I don’t think you understand, Smartalix. No farmer is being forced to buy seeds from Monsanto. That’s what I meant by free market. Also, the farmers that already buy seeds from Monsanto are mostly buying them at a per planting price. It’s not “evil greed” to simply use technology to enforce their agreement.
I think we’re being astroturfed.
David,
I disagree. (obviously)
You are being forced to buy seed if you can’t use a portion of your crop the next season. Monsanto is trying to shift ownership from the seed itself (the model used previously) to the IP in the seed. To prevent someone from using seed from the crops they grew in their own fields because they won’t grow is wrong.
This isn’t even addressing the more serious issue of releasing this tech into the wild, where nothing is controllable. GM grass is already spreading its genes into the wild, what would happen if seeds other than Monsanto’s stopped sprouting because of infection from Monsanto strains?
Maybe this is simplistic……but if you buy a Ford, you can’t go home and then mass produce Fords based on the model you bought. Under your reasoning Smartalix, when you buy the car, thats the end of Fords control over that car and you can then use it as a proto type to produce and sell them on your own. We all know thats not legal.
So why is it any different for Monsanto with it’s *engineered* seeds?
You don’t have to buy them, but if you do, then you must follow the rules concerning propriatory rights.
My concern is what happens as others have said when this stuff cross pollinates with non GM plants. Is Monsanto liable for damages? I think they would be…..could be similer to a house painter that usues a spray gun to paint your house, and the spray blows onto your neighbors house, he’s going to be in a world of hurt if that happens……..so why not Monsanto also being in a world of hurt.
One of the reasons I’ve moved to France is to get real food. Originally from Canada, I lived for 11 years in UK. I knew it was getting really bad when I went to the local up-market grocery store (Waitrose) and under the premium tomates there was a sign “grown in soil for extra taste”. What the H***!!! Since when is “grown in soil” an extra? What is happening with the rest? Hydro-ponics (or however it is spelled)?
Some months later, under some premium-priced apples there was a sign “ripened on the tree for extra taste”. Well, that one I understand. Most of the mass-market fruit is picked green for transport and storage. Some items (e.g. tomatoes) are sprayed to turn them red so that they appear ripe.
The same sort of thing goes on here in France as well. But at least every village and town has food markets where I can still buy real food.
This GM stuff is just a continuation of corrupting the quality of our food supply in the interests of convienence and bigger profits. I’m totally opposed to it. They’ve already produced so much tasteless fruit and vegetables, due to selective breeding for appearance and storage, at the cost of taste. Most people don’t even remember what real food tastes like. Now with GM the process can be accelerated, so that the same thing can be done in years that previously would take decades of selective breeding.
If you ever have the opportunity to taste the old varieties, grown and ripened in a natural way, at the same time as industrially produced food, the difference is amazing.
Smartalix say “he cannot use a portion of his crop as seed for the next season.”
Wrong. Incorrect. Prove this. The Monsanto seeds can withstand the herbicide Roundup, which kills weeds and non-monsanto corn seeds. It does not *require* roundup to grow. The seeds will grow just fine without round-up, but other weeds will compete with the corn because roundup was not sprayed. JUST LIKE REGULAR SEEDS. Did you just make this up or what?
2xbob says this is like DRM spreading because it infects normal seeds. What? Explain how the terminator gene, which by it’s very nature cannot spread, spreads to other seeds. These things you hear about farmers saying it blew into their fields is them LYING because they’ve been caught. They spay roundup on their so-called natural seeds, which would kill the crops if they we’re monsanto modified.
If Monsanto allowed unlimited copying of their seeds, then they would have to charge an insane amount of money for the first batch to recoup their investment, and those people who bought the seeds would just grow it and harvest the seeds and resell them. And yes farmers have been caught doing just that; growing Monsanto corn just to harvest it and resell the seeds to other farmers at a discount. That’s outright piracy. I can’t belive this is even an argument, it’s so clear.
On #25, there has been litigation on this. Monsanto has a lot a experience in that area. Asbestos litigation, bribery charges in Indonesia, litigation with soybean farmers among others. These guys aren’t in it for the food. There are a lot of farmers who would like to see Monsanto’s ass kicked down the Main Street of rural America.
From the guys that brought us ant poison that turned out to taste pretty good in your favorite carbonated liquid refreshment.
#25,
Using that logic, you could buy a cow but the calves belong to the original seller. That’s the core issue here. Animals and plants are not capital goods.
#27,
All genes can spread. Also, the terminator technology has been well documented, as a simple google search will demonstrate. Terminator-“enabled” seed will not germinate unless Monsanto chemicals are used.
Again, by the logic of the terminator defenders, if you buy a pig or cow from a breeder (those animals are just as engineered as corn is) you couldn’t keep the offspring. Does that make any sense?
Smartalix says “if you buy a pig or cow from a breeder (those animals are just as engineered as corn is) you couldn’t keep the offspring. Does that make any sense?”
I was a breeder and I told you that I have pigs for sale that grow three times the size of regular pigs, consume half the feed, and never get sick, but I’ve castrated them so you can’t breed them, would you buy any? I guess you’d have to do the math and figure out if it’s worth it. By the way, if you criticize my castration policy, I’ll tell you that I used to sell the pigs uncastrated, but I made the farmers sign an agreement not to breed the pigs, which the farmers signed voluntarily. But then I’d tell you that those farmers that agreed not to breed the pigs bred them anyway and sold them a price lower than what I sold them, cutting away at my profit for the hard work of creating a super-pig.
If you don’t like pigs/seeds, don’t buy them. It’s called the free market.
What we have in agriculture isn’t a free market, so your analogy collapses. Agriculture is a government-subsidized industry. Monsanto is trying to change the way crops have been grown since man first pushed seed into the ground.
Also, what about the ecological issues? It has already been demonstrated that GM attributes spread to surrounding environment. To risk ecological damage to protect profit is asinine.
In a free market, if you can’t supply your customers without having to resort to predatory measures, maybe you shouldn’t be selling in that market. It works both ways.