“Whom do you worship?”
People have a right to ridicule public proselytizing all they like, as was elegantly demonstrated in a video I recently posted here— but calling the police to have someone removed because you don’t like what he is saying is over the top. I hope the police have an explanation, but what are we to do about those pesky videotapes mentioned in the story?
Because [Artur] Pawlowski has been threatened so often by drug dealers angry their clients often turn away from drugs as a result of his message of hope and help, he started videotaping every outing. Wednesday’s was no different.
On Monday, Pawlowski and his brother went to the park, talked with tarot card readers and other practisers of “sorcery” to tell them the Bible condemns such practices. Video shows they remained calm but the vendors became agitated. Event organizers called police and Pawlowski and his brother David were asked not to talk to the vendors again. They agreed and left.
On Wednesday, when they returned to pray, they stayed far away from the vendors. Organizers called police anyway.
The video shows Pawlowski standing on the public sidewalk with his hands in his pockets. He asks a burly police officer in a calm voice, “Why are you harassing me? What did I do wrong?” The police officer responds with: “I’m going to arrest you for obstruction.”
Insp. Ed Yeomans confirmed Pawlowski’s story, saying Wednesday’s arrest was the police’s second dealing with Pawlowski. “One vendor closed up her booth and others left the park because that man and his group were causing a disturbance to other users of the festival,” said Yeomans.
But the video shows clearly Pawlowski and his group did not approach vendors.
This happened in my home city of Calgary, and it was on the news, but the reality is that these guys were at this festival to sitr up some shit and make sure they filmed getting arrested.
Other people that were at the festival said that these guys were intent on getting into confrontations with people and filming it, this group is notorious for harrassing people in the city like this all the time.
You can’t legislate religion.
I thought freedom of religion also meant freedom from religion. What’s the difference between this guy and a person who harasses women working in a store on several occaisons then one day just walks in and stands around. Isn’t there a reaonable expectation that the harassment would occur again? Doesn’t his presence, after his previous behavior, constitue a threat?
And besides, since when did you stop being skeptical when you only hear one side of the story and only see the video tape the complainer produces.
Exactly. “Freedom of religion” does NOT mean you get to do whatever the hell you want to do but are protected if you slap “religion” on it. Harassment is harassment.
Howard, where did you get the idea you have freedom from religion? What part of “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;” entitles you to freedom from anything other than Congress interfering with religion?
Any free citizen can exercise their religion and if you happen to be in the vicinity and are bothered by it, you have the right to freely assemble elsewhere.
People’s lack of understanding the Constitution scares me to death.
I’ve heard there’s places in the Northwest US where you don’t have to see another human being for months. I think I’m going to find me a cute nanny goat and move there. 🙂
Looking at the opening paragraph of the editorial is enough for me. This is clearly hyperbolic journalism at its very worst. But what else do you expect from one of the many right wing clones who have made their living making hyperbolic statements. The author of this editorial is basically the exact same person as Ann Coultier, only in Canada. She is a plagerist as well. I don’t have to do any more research than that, I can assume her ‘facts’ are lacking substance.
Meh, she is a neo-con. You can now ignore everything she says forever.
4 …since when did you stop being skeptical when you only hear one side of the story and only see the video tape the complainer produces.
ditto 🙂
…he started videotaping every outing.
Every part of every “outing” or just the parts that he wants us to see?
The video shows Pawlowski standing on the public sidewalk with his hands in his pockets…. because that man and his group were causing a disturbance to other users of the festival.
The video shows Pawlowski, where is the video that shows “his group”??
So if this guy was with PETA, Gay Coalition, Green Peace or Jackass TV and got arrested I’m guessing then it would be government denying free speech.
So where is the video?
Being harrassed as I walk through a public park by some religious zeolot is VERY offensive to ME and I consider THAT harrassment! It has nothing to do with religious freedom or freedom of speech. It is offensive and disturbs the peace as far as I’m concerned. If he is in the middle of a walkway ranting, raving, or even praying, then YES he is obstructing the right of freedom of movement for the people passing by.
To me this type of harrassment is the SAME as being approached by some drug dealer selling whatever they sell.
The arrest was appropriate in my book.
#4 –“since when did you stop being skeptical when you only hear one side of the story and only see the video tape the complainer produces.”
I’ve never stopped being skeptical. In the first place, I asked (headline) “IS Christianity Becoming Illegal in Canada???” Not “Christianity Is Becoming Illegal in Canada.” I also stated, “I hope the police have an explanation…” rather than assume that the police were in error. And your statement that “I thought freedom of religion also meant freedom from religion” underscores why I should also be skeptical of assuming the man’s guilt. If he was arrested to protect others from religion, then that proves my point.
My question is, Where is YOUR skepticism? It sounds like you’ve already made up your mind as to what happened.
It’s nice to know that if Fred Phelps and his band of whack-jobs ever came to protest at a military funeral in Canada they’d be arrested. Too bad you Yanks have to bring in bikers to ride shotgun on your military funerals.
People’s lack of understanding the Constitution scares me to death.
Comment by Doug — 8/24/2006 @ 10:20 am
How very true. And remember that freedom of speech allows you to yell fire in a crowded theater, or keep your own armor piercing rounds for when you are called up for the militia.
How such misunderstanding of our Constitution occurs is mind boggling. Oh, BTW, I don’t care what your religion is, I will visit you in your church come Sunday to preach my religion, and because Congress can make no law prohibiting me doing that, I know you will welcome me. Geeze, after you leave, I think I’ll come over and invite myself into your house and continue my preaching. You wouldn’t mind if I follow you into the can, do you? Because the Constitution, as you and I read it, can’t prevent me from joining you. I just know you will enjoy hearing me.
re post #6:
Doug your statement about the constitution and peoples lack of understanding of it scaring you is interesting. The story is about an incident in Canada. While the U.S. Constitution truly is wonderful and worth reading to understand it does not cover other countries. Some posts mention incidents in the U.S. ,however, your post does not seem to be directed towards them but rather towards the story and comments in general.
John
Why do you hate our American magnificance, Gigwave? 😉
Strikes me that this fellow’s priorities wiegh drug trafficking and tarot reading of equal cause for concern, enough to address both of them publicly.
Myself, I’m cool with being condemned in public for sorcery or dealing dope; I’m not interested in discussing either without my lawyer or counsel from the Church of Satan and stuff, particularly if I happen to be working and trying to make a living (and might thus be considered a captive audience to an apparently less scrupulous individual than mentioned here).
Otherwise, if the fellow was asked to leave, no matter how civilly or innocuously he refused, then yes, his freedom of speech infringes on someone’s right NOT to be so imposed on. It’s damned stupid for somebody to be arrested for anything so passive aggressive, but the situation wasn’t exactly genius in the first place and that he got a little ink declaring him a martyr for Jeebus has a going market rate of at least a month of Sundays out condemning the sinful. The guy actually banked on the publicity, whether he intended to or not.
To those who think that this person had the right to seek confrontation with these people… ask yourself this… What would happen if a atheist/witch/hindu/muslim/buddhist did the same thing in or just outside a Christian church?
So many rags, and the Calgary Sun is one of them, use writers like this to write inflammatory, one sided, unfairly biased pieces. It gets the writer and the rag attention.
Writers that “tell it like it is” seldom do. That just means they have an agenda and will to express extreme, usually anti social views in the hopes of attracting misfits to their side. Americans like Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Ann Colture, and Bill O’Rielly come to mind as fitting that mold.
Thats a nonsense article. Those guys were out to cause trouble and could have prayed anywhere, with out a problem. The fact that they caused a disturbance and were asked to go elsewhere, yet returned, is why they were arrested
Matt 6:6
Context, 20, context – that particular passage is about not showing off your religious-ness to impress people. Obviously this guy knew his audience wouldn’t be impressed, thus he is not in violation.
Just for convienience, Matthew 6:5-6, in the NIV:
5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
I wish it was.
Anyone who follows a book, priest or any religious sect for worldly guidance is weak minded.
What is religion other that what you have been told or taught?
That’s my opinion, not law. Like when people use a book scripture to back up a comment…opinions not laws. Your a human being …think for yourself.
Go listen to some George Carlin and worship Joe Peshi.
Yes I am Canadian and I am offended by public acts of religious worship.
We are not all igloos and back bacon.
There is a public immigration revolt looming in Canada.
USA wake up and get your congress leaders to put pressure on Canada to tighten immigration laws and entrance prerequisites.
Why did I bring this up? Because the Canadian public is getting VERY nervous about terrorism right now. We all know we are next on the block, and we are very touchy about seeing a possible terrorist praying to his or her god.
So the day of not taking any chances and not singling any specific religious group out of the crowd is upon us.
my 2c
my 2c
Comment by chad — 8/25/2006 @ 5:04 am
which is worth about 1 1/2 c in the US.
“Because the Canadian public is getting VERY nervous about terrorism right now. We all know we are next on the block, and we are very touchy about seeing a possible terrorist praying to his or her god.”
I know what you mean. Although I can’t remember a Christian actually blowing up airplanes and such, you never know. We need to shut this prayer thing down for our own safety. Prayer must be the cause. You know, Islamic terrorists pray and they blow up planes. Prayer is the obvious problem. If you can’t see this you are just plain stupid!
The Canadians are being very astute in this and their perceptiveness should be applauded.
Since 1997 there have been 8 bombings of abortion clinics causing $236,500 worth of damage. This is according to Prochoice web site. I could find no recorded deaths.
Some things are obvious here. Yes, Christians are apparently not very good bombers, but I have to believe these people may have prayed. Yes, it is possible that they were not Christians at all, but what other group is deranged enough to be concerned about unborn babies. Anyway, it seems quite certain that prayer was the problem here.
I’ll bet there is a judge in Michigan willing to put a stop all this praying.
Chad, you are the classic internet bullshiter who when asked his opinion in person would look at the floor in silence.
If a jew asked you the question, youd be scared of some bullshit lawsuit and if a muslim asked, youd be afraid of getting killed.
You are ball-less except in cyberspace where your anonimity is your shield.
As well, the Canadian public is getting VERY nervous about terrorism right now because thats what is useful. You did notice taht right after 11/9 we add TWO laws that would allow for greater repression of public dissent? You think our government is beyond using american tactics to mold the public?
Look, we fully supported like the US did, Bin Laden when he was in the Balkans along with tens of thousands of his head choppers, then we bombed a country that was facing the ‘largest and best trained terrorist group in the world’ (CIA 1998) because in between incubator babies and WMD, we didnt just lose our hand at creating reasons to bomb.
But in those days, they were on our side….so please forgive me if Im not too impressed by our governments or corporate media whipping us into a frenzy when a decade ago they used to treat tens of thousand of muhajeddins in Bosnia as a good thing. *remember those counter-terrorism experts on ABC with the ZZ Top beards who spoke arab?”
Actually, we all know that the medias censor and shape our news to fit the storyline being sold at the time but only in Canada is this out in the open when you have the owners of the largest media conglomerate spell it out and say it openly 2-3 years ago when he stated that there will NEVER be any negative coverage of Israel in his papers/TV stations.
Quick, what colour is the alert today?
Taupe?