And I bet you thought it was only Islamic fundies who were this backward.
Sunday school teacher fired for being female
Since 1946, Mary Lambert has been a member of the First Baptist Church in Watertown, and for the past 11 years, she’s been the Sunday school teacher.
But, last Thursday Lambert received a letter from the Diaconate Board telling her that she was dismissed from her position because the board had adopted the scriptural qualifications for Sunday school teachers. In short, this prohibits women from teaching men.
“I was astonished, absolutely astonished to pick up and read that kind of a letter without being talked to ahead of time about the possibility,” said Mary Lambert.
The letter Lambert received says, “A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became sinner.”
LaBouf
Link to the LaBouf Blog — add your comments!
Official Le Bouf Comment on Church Website
Most of what he says seem to be about how crummy it was that this was made public,
My sentiments exactly.
Of course, I am not living in the first century and do not have the same cultural and situational reasons. But the idea just appeals to me on a sort of testicular level, so-to-speak.
I don’t know, this story smell fishy. I’m calling BS.
My extended family walked away from organized religion sixty years ago over similar anachronistic, useless requirements. Sectarian crap has only one function — to keep people in line.
Fortunately, as I rolled along to adulthood, acquired at least the basics of an education in science, I realized there was no real justification for wasting time with religion, anyway. My family afforded me the respect and intellectual freedom — to make that decision on my own.
The sad part of this is the number of lemmings who support policies like this — in their political lives as well as private.
Context – everything in Biblical interpretation depends on context! Those particular verses are in a section on orderly worship. For women to teach would have been scandalous at the time – thus, so as not to alienate potential new converts, they forbid it -> its one of those things that’s sorta like the old Jewish rules, that are still on the books (the Book …) and aren’t really followed.
Paul didn’t want women to teach, so he could be the only Auntie Christ.
Funny how people act when they believe there is an actual God directing their lives.
RBG
of course what this “rule” (and many other Pauline condemnations) indicates that in the early Church, women were very active, at every level, a fact that did not suit grumps like Paul a bit. so if you are trying to get your church as close to the early one as possible, you can’t bar the door to women.
#2I don’t know, this story smell fishy. I’m calling BS.
Comment by spankbot — 8/21/2006 @ 2:29 pm
You must be one hell of a cynic! How can you doubt the authenticity of Channel 10 News?!?!?! They are the Mohawk Valley, Tompkins, and Watertown News Leaders!!!!
i give up. Worlds gone to hell. best we can do now is nuke everyone and everything and let God have a second chance at creating a better society cause we sure as hell can’t
I am telling you someone actually read the bible and seen that. It is stupid to be that way but it proves that the bible was more influenced by the people rather then faith. If god really was over this then woman would be treated the same as men. During that time it didnt happen so in the book it didnt ether.
way to go goes to the church to take a persons faithv and shit on it.
Wow, I dont think it makes an ounce of difference wether a male or female teaches. It does however make a difference that the person teaching knows more on the perticular subject than the students.
And about the current poll:
Ubuntu+Automatix+XGL laughs in the face of both OSX and Windows, XP or Vista.
I wonder when the good pastor is up for re-election? I wonder how long he will keep his job as pastor?
I support him and I’m not even Christian. The bible is very clear on this issue.. women should not be teaching men, among many other things. If you claim to be a follower of Christianity and the bible, you simply can’t pick and choose what to follow. You have to follow everything the bible says. Otherwise, admitting to one error in the bible brings into question everything written in it.
Funny how Christians criticize other religions while doing a hell of a job to make the name stink.
The Christian/Jew/Muslim God and Jesus must have been the worst characters in human history. Not one figure has ever evoked as many wars as these two figures.
Good Job, you two have caused more havoc than anybody/anything might have ever caused.
and I’m not kidding 😛
…If you claim to be a follower of Christianity and the bible, you simply can’t pick and choose what to follow. …
So are you comfortable with men having hundreds of wives and concubines? Or slavery? Or traveling to the town of your birth to pay your taxes? Or being expected to follow the same occupation as your father? Or keep your wine in goat bladder bags? Or flooding the world when things get a little too wild ? Or destroying cities by blowing horns at the walls?
Jesus taught only one lesson. And those that missed it are the sorry lot. His lesson is love. What this pastor did had nothing to do with love; it had to do with revenge. Read his explanation from the above links.
This is what happens when someone tries to bet all of eternity on a single Biblical verse. When placed in context with other Biblical verses, particularly the verse that says “A bishop shall be the husband of one wife”, it simply means that a woman should not be placed in spiritual authority over a man. This is why the more conservative Christian denominations do not confer the Priesthood upon women nor ordain them to pastorships. After all, Matthew 6:9 commands all of us, male and female alike, to pray to the Heavenly Father, not the Heavenly Mother.
Jerry Falwell once explained it thusly: A woman may have a teaching ministry [like Joyce Meyer] or a healing ministry [like Marilyn Hickey], but she cannot have a pastoral ministry.
Banning women from teaching men, blowing people up… It’s all just a matter of degree. Fundamentalism is fundamentalism.
Of course the good pastor doesn’t really believe in his excuse, but it’s a hell of a good excuse. How could a “true believer” really question it without questioning everything else he holds dear? And “true believers” will do anything they can to keep from having to question their beliefs.
Jesus taught only one lesson. And those that missed it are the sorry lot. His lesson is love.
Sounds like someone wasn’t paying attention in Sunday school.
“Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household.” (Matthew 10:34-36 NASB)
Interesting verse you selected there David. Anything else you’d like to totally take out of context too? Come on, entertain us more.
But actually, about 75% of everything that Jesus said in the Bible is not about love, or even the “I did not come to bring peace blah blah blah”. Most of it boils down to “I’m the son of God….no really….I’m the son of God….why is everyone laughing at me?!?! I’m really the son of God!”. (I paraphrased there).
Also, I think this pastor will be looking for a new gig soon.
Hey David,
Bite me. You are an a**wipe hiding behind your religion.
Ever heard the the term “misogynism”?
Means hatred of women. Not very “christian” is it…? Just because some of the jerks who added their two cents to the bible were a**wipes, doesn’t mean you need to follow that part of the book. Paul was a d^^kwad, and should have had his testicles removed by a rabid chipmunk in the most painful of ways.
Meanwhile, lets visit the whole issue of the Deuteronomy ….what do YOU pick from that? Do YOU eat shellfish…as it’s a big no-no. If you tried to really follow the WHOLE bible, you’d be locked up in a nutbin, although I’m not saying you don’t belong there…….
Try thinking, buddy. I know it’s difficult, but…go for the hard answers once in a while, not the stupid ones.
Take it easy meetsy as David has a very poignant argument. If the bible is the word of “God” then whomever follows it should technically have no right to “pick and choose” the parts of it to follow. If it is “outdated” then either “God” no longer cares that people follow it or it is just a bunch of compiled fictional stories by writers that have contributed to the biggest hoax in history. Thus, you must either accept it completely or dismiss it because no one has the knowledge (nor right) to discern what “God’s” true expectations are to be treating the Bible like a smorgasboard. If you don’t believe completely in the teachings, then you can’t rightfully call yourself a member of that Faith. If you believe in some of the things then you are technically an Agnostic because you are non-committal to the entire set of teachings and choose to follow your own belief set.
Of course, the majority of religions won’t cast non-committal believers out of the flock because they depend on the masses to spread the “core” faith and create a false sense that they’re the correct religion based on the amount of members/”believers” (strength in numbers). The question is how many would remain steadfast in these group associations if God said all the instutional religions were created by false prophets and all the members must go to Hell. Wouldn’t that be ironic that you get punished for not thinking for yourself.
You might not be able to pick & choose, but you don’t do anyone any favours by not reading intelligently either. The requirement as quoted is not actually a reflection of the culture of the times, but rather more liberating than women could’ve expected. Like – must learn? That means they may! Woohoo! Or something.
Amazing how some people can get screwed-up over matters of *interpretation*.
David,
You do have some points about taking the whole bible or none at all. It’s true, but it’s so hard to actually understand what the bible is really saying. As for your Mathew quote… Context! So, he did come down and bring a sword you say, but it is to tell people that if they are to become Christians, they will become soldiers in the Spiritual war to protect God. Not to actually walk around and kill… As for the second part “daughter against mother”, JC is coming during a time when persecution will be the norm. He’s not asking for people to fight each other, but that the struggle that will be due to his arrival and shaking up of the Rabbi’s and Romes stranglehold on the people, that the times will demand that those are ready for when mother turns on daughter and so on…
Anyhoo, since I believe you are Jewish, you better get responding before sunset… THis blog moves fast!
lol, religion
Hard to understand? We’re talking about the relation of an amalgamation of myths brought together by contemporary editors to provide a code for rulers. It’s easier than any tax code written by today’s politicians/lawyers.
It’s only hard to understand if you require belief in all the crap. Instead of material reality.
Moss,
To append to your comment, if we’re so fucked up as a species now even with all our knowledge, can you imagine the barbaric society we lived in before religion? I mean, religion was the first political system, and a damn powerful one at that! Actually, you CAN see how barbaric we were… just read the rules in the old testament / torah! We’re savages!
#6 Funny how people act when they believe there is an actual God directing their lives.
RBG
I was thinking… Funny how people act when they don’t believe there is an actual God directing their lives.
I think it comes down to Joe’s point, we’re messed up, may as well start over.
on that note, isn’t starting over, and doing it right, the point of grace and thus the gospel?
just wondering
Please know, not all of Christianity is this backwards… only some of us.
she was in a labor union and was demanding a raise — the religion thing was just a front!
Basically… what Teyecoon said.
I’m not a misogynist, I respect women. As I said, that’s why I’m not a Christian. I don’t agree with most of the bible, but I support the pastor in raising awareness of its teachings, which most Christians seem to be quite igorant of.
Named: Actually, Jesus was speaking about literal, not spiritual swords. In fact he later directs his disciples to purchase one.
“Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.” (Luke 22:36)