Courtesy of Church of the FSM
Surveys by a Michigan State University researcher find that about one-third of the American population does not believe in evolution, a figure which is much higher than those found in similar surveys in European nations and Japan.
The research of Jon D. Miller, MSU Hannah Professor of Integrative Studies, is published in the Aug. 11 issue of the journal Science.
For example, in Iceland, Denmark, Sweden and France, 80 percent or more of adults accepted the concept of evolution, as did 78 percent of Japanese adults.
Only adults in Turkey, a predominantly Muslim nation, were less likely to accept the concept of evolution than American adults.
There were several reasons for these inflated U.S. numbers. Miller said the most significant factor was the influence of fundamentalist religions.
Any good reason why some religions dedicate so much energy to holding back knowledge and education — and others don’t?
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Camp-bell !!!!
Thus the reason we have a disturbed dolt for a President who is using all our tax money to fund his psychotic religious agenda. As long as our country remains stubbornly ignorant, we can expect to continually be represented around the world by embarassingly ignorant religious extremists like Bush and his appointees.
Look,
God created everythign.. Its not from a random explosion. The people who want to believe evolution are silly. They call names simply because they need to hold on to the belief that God doesn’t exist. If he does, they’re hell bound. They cling to the hope that if they’re wrong and there is a God, he’ll forgive them their ignorance because of all the confusing facts surrounding people.
But God has given a free pass! Faith in Jesus Christ, that his death atoned for all who put their faith in him, is a FREE GIFT. But that leaves nothing for prideful man, who wants to take credit for everything he can.
If you want to believe an explosion in space can randomly create everything you see around you, go ahead. Even though it flys in the face of ENTROPY (2nd law of thermodynamics) and common sense… If an explosion can create order and life.. and this is what you put you FAITH in. So be it. Calculate how long you have to live before you die a natural death or accidental death or disease.. 20 years? 30? 40? Then HOPE that when you die, you’re dead like a dog, because if this isn’t the case, you’ll stand before God and try to explain why your pride prevented you for accepting his SON, Jesus Christ, a free gift for salvation when you’ve been told (or read) otherwise.
Don’t take my word for it. Read the Bible..
Romans 1:18
The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools..
(Sound familiar?)
Sorry, I’m both a Christian, and an acceptor of evolution. Not saying there are not flaws in the overall theories surrounding evolution…..just saying it’s the best explanation we have currently. Evolution takes place, you can watch it in the lives of cockroaches or bacteria. Poison them, keep poisoning them…….in a handful of generations you will have a resistant strain…..the lack of resistance to that poison will be bred out of them. Look at dogs……we have bred dogs for thousands of years for specific purposes, which is how we have the breeds we have today. That is evolution in action.
In the above cases, of course there is an overal design it’s not natural selection, it is human selection of properties. The core of ID is the supposition that God is the Natural in Natural Selection. There is no evidence to support this, therefore it is not scientific. It is what I believe, but it does not belong in a science class.
#45, Thomas, Atheists just call it something different.. and also assume that “higher power” means god(s), sentient. I do not assert that atheists believe in deity, just power over humans, such as nature, or physics. its a pretty simple statement.
#43, I chuckled, thanks… I’ve been to China, I have experienced this higher power myself!
What about the experiments that demonstrated that amino acids can spontaneously develop in an energy-rich environment? Amino acids have also been found in comets.
Biological systems have an extreme affinity for self-assembly. This could be a manifestation of God’s will when the basic nature of the universe was established. Our experiments cannot duplicate the millions of years involved in the development of higher organisms, but the precedents are visible to any who care to examine them.
My primary issue with ID is not the concept that a higher entity created us. It is that a higher entity created us in this form.
I’ve said this before, but evolution is an elegant solution to a dynamically changing environment. Why couldn’t it be a tool created by God to ensure that life can always adapt to what the earth throws at it?
Going by the primary description of ID, I am a believer in it myself. However, I reject the creationist aspect.
#63 Wayne Bienek
Boy this ought to be fun……………….
“God created everythign”
I’m o.k. with that concept. He just did it through science!
“The people who want to believe evolution are silly. They call names simply because they need to hold on to the belief that God doesn’t exist”
Let’s look at who is name calling. I personally believe in a god. Not your god I’m sure but some form of god. BUT it is just a belief because I have no data or proof for it.
“If he does, they’re hell bound. ”
Oh lets see. pick your sarcastic remark.
I’m there already!
I bought Bermuda shorts for the occasion!
Aren’t we all?
I hope they have a Starbucks!
Aren’t they all Republicans down there?
“They cling to the hope that if they’re wrong and there is a God, he’ll forgive them their ignorance because of all the confusing facts surrounding people.”
WHAT? I don’t even think that makes sense.
“But God has given a free pass! Faith in Jesus Christ, that his death atoned for all who put their faith in him, is a FREE GIFT.”
Wow! I guess I won’t be alone in hell. 2/3 of the world in non Christian. Jesus should go into infomercials he has the pitch down.
“If you want to believe an explosion in space can randomly create everything you see around you, go ahead.”
Thanks but that is a little oversimplification.
“Even though it fly’s in the face of ENTROPY (2nd law of thermodynamics) and common sense”
Uh. No it doesn’t! I won’t bother to explain because you clearly don’t understand physics.
“Then HOPE that when you die, you’re dead like a dog, because if this isn’t the case, you’ll stand before God and try to explain why your pride prevented you for accepting his SON, Jesus Christ, a free gift for salvation when you’ve been told (or read) otherwise. ”
Will I have to explain why I didn’t by the Ginsu knives? I won’t have any problems if or when I stand before god. God told me so!
“Don’t take my word for it. Read the Bible..”
I knew that one was coming! I have not only read the bibles I have studied them. My bet is that you have not!
“Romans 1:18
The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools..”
Well I am right! You can’t even quote it correctly. Who are you to think you can edit god???? Here is the actual text as I know it from all the bibles I have read!
“For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.”
#65
> Atheists just call it something different.. and also assume
> that “higher power” means god(s), sentient. I do not assert
> that atheists believe in deity, just power over humans,
> such as nature, or physics. its a pretty simple statement.
You argument is sophist nonsense. You are making the mistake of equivocation by attributing multiple meanings to the phrase “higher power.” Using the phrase “higher power” in the sense meant by theists, atheists, reject the claims that such a power exists as there has been no evidence to support the claim.
#63 Wayne Bienek, Software Design
I’ll admit- I haven’t read the book. Yours or any other religion’s. I also don’t remember much from the Catholic middle school I went to.
Can you explain to us how god created men? Yes, that part in the Christian Bible about the clay and the rib.
Also, I’ve heard of Cain and Abel but, did Adam and Eve also have a daughter? They must have, in order to procreate, right? You know where I’m going with this…
#68, sophist huh? perhaps I should take that as a compliment?
Your problem with my ‘arguement’ seems to be that you have a narrow minded view of what “higher power” means. Are you one of those ‘fundies’ that Dvorak keeps warning us about?
Furthermore, the passion conveyed in your post indicates you have imparted far too much value into this point. Semantic debates won’t solve anything. It doesn’t truely matter whether you like to ascribe the term “higher power” to any power or force an atheist might believe in.
I really couldn’t care less where I came from or what the origin of humanity is. But I personally hope that whatever the answer is it pisses off the fundies.
#70
> Your problem with my ‘arguement’ seems to be that you have
> a narrow minded view of what “higher power” means. Are you
> one of those ‘fundies’ that Dvorak keeps warning us about?
I’m not sure why you went out of your way to misspell argument. My guess is that it is a neon “I’m a troll” sign.
Anyway, claiming that atheists believe in a “higher power” is an obvious attempt to pervert the meaning of the phrase so as to claim atheists believe in the supernatural. Put a different way, if you were not implying a supernatural power through the phrase “higher power”, you should not have used the phrase in the first place.
I’m not sure when John has warned us about “fundies” but I’m certain he would happily mock someone that tried to claim that atheists believe in a “higher power.”
> Furthermore, the passion conveyed in your post indicates
> you have imparted far too much value into this point.
Huh? So, I should make my responses shallower so you understand them?
> Semantic debates won’t solve anything. It doesn’t truely
> matter whether you like to ascribe the term “higher power”
> to any power or force an atheist might believe in.
Alrighty then how about this one: People such as yourself that try to claim atheists “believe” in higher powers are imbeciles.
I think that’s enough food for the troll…
And to boot…. How can we even have a discussion if we can’t agree on the definitions of the terms that are key to the discussion. You wanna bicker over what “higher power” means… Go ahead.
There is still no God so get your pompous barbarian ideology out of the business of legislation in my government.
Do that, and I’ll never bother you or your fine flock of good Christian people again.
Many of the people posting on this topic are not qualified to divine between the genius and moron. That said…
ALL legislation is MORAL by it’s very nature. Laws are a set of moral behaviors agreed upon or imposed by a majority or authority for the purpose of directing a basically selfish population to co-exist reasonably. Otherwise you could have naked people walking around with no respect for ownership of property, doing what ever felt right to their personal cosmology at the moment.
Don’t you realize that the very idea that anything on this Earth that someone else could need, belongs only to you and that you have a right to control is a moral decision. Which is why we have property law. There have been cultures who have decided that no such right exists, and have had rules to govern accordingly.
I caertainly don’t feel the need to tell anyone that I am an Aclausist because I don’t belive in Santa Claus. Atheism is a belief system used to fill in the gaps of human knowledge, just like any other religion. And humanist scientists are your clergy. Admit that, and I won’t bother any of you fine fine Atheists either.
> I caertainly don’t feel the need to tell anyone that I am an
> Aclausist because I don’t belive in Santa Claus. Atheism is
> a belief system used to fill in the gaps of human
> knowledge, just like any other religion. And humanist
> scientists are your clergy.
Obviously it is difficult for a theist to conceive of a person that has no need to “fill the gaps” in human knowledge with something else. To an atheist, unknown is a very real, common state. Atheism is a lack of a belief system. Just as “aclausism” is not a belief system neither is atheism. James Randi said it best, “Atheism is a religion like not collecting stamps is a hobby.”
#74 Otherwise you could have naked people walking around with no respect for ownership of property, doing what ever felt right to their personal cosmology at the moment.
You say that like its a bad thing…
J:
No, I obtained my degree from a university not associated with a religious organization. State-funded.
What’s your degree in?
Proteome
I was chastised once before because I stated some of my credentials here. Do you really want to get into this? I won’t get into a debate of who’s degrees are more respectable or makes them smarter on a particular topic. I think ones knowledge is usually represented by the things they say. Usually! Let’s just say my scholarships were not state funded nor were the schools from which I received my degrees.
I will leave you with this.
No matter what school or what degree you have you clearly did not learn the fundamental principles of science. It is clear by statements you made in #57 #58.
The fact that you use the name Proteome is not only funny but it is blasphemy! lol
BTW It was a rhetorical question. I am not real good at the humor thing, or so I’m told!
The fact that you use the name Proteome is not only funny but it is blasphemy! lol
A collection of proteins is blasphemous? What did I miss here?
It was a joke. Irony ? I guess I find it funny because of the Miller-Urey experiments back in the 50’s and how it relates to this debate.
Like I said I am not real good with the humor thing.
Now that I think about it in that context it is funny.
Sorry, I’m a spiritual person (not religous as in following Man created Dogma) and I generally keep my scientific thought and my spiritual thought seperate. So that one went right over my head. Plus, I had only had about 1.5 cups of coffee by the time I read it.
You won’t get into a debate about credentials? And you complain about being chastised for revealing your credentials?
Not to argue…. I’m sorry, but when saying “Did you go to Oral Roberts university?” sorta started that debate. You challenged my credentials. And I answered back. Yeah, I’m resorting to “you started it.”
And I guess by what you say, “I think ones knowledge is usually represented by the things they say,” then you must not know much about what you’re battling against. Calin is right. It wouldn’t be blasphemy. I guess you tried to correct that in your last post. Oh, well.
What I said in #57, 58 is true. Can anything prove how life started on earth, outside of going back in time and monitoring through the years how it first started? All the evidence you use as evidence for evolution can still not show how it all began. That is to what I was referring.
And one of my points was that scientists can say all the live-long day that vestigial organs and fossils and this and that are evidence for evolution. The whole point to making the comment about scientists in time past believing that the earth was the center of the universe was based on evidentiary facts. They just used them incorrectly. “Theories happening to fit the facts.” Am I saying this disproves anything about evolution? No. That would be logical. But I am saying that it is not good to trust wholeheartedly in imperfect humans.
The first thing anyone learns in any branch of science is the scientific method. A theory is a theory is a theory. And it can and will only ever be a theory when considering how things actually happened when life first began. Has anyone shown that?
Your ignorance is utterly stunning
“You challenged my credentials”
No you did that by putting them out there and then making ignorant statements and using your credentials to back it up!
“then you must not know much about what you’re battling against. Calin is right. It wouldn’t be blasphemy I guess you tried to correct that in your last post. Oh, well”
blasphemy 1 a : the act of insulting or showing contempt or lack of reverence for God
You don’t see the humor in your choice of names in regard to your argument? LOL! I do!
I didn’t try to correct anything. I clarified it to Calin so he would see my perspective. AND HE THOUGH IT WAS FUNNY! SO THERE!
“Can anything prove how life started on earth, outside of going back in time and monitoring through the years how it first started?”
Yes. If you truly understood science, like you say, you would know that already wouldn’t you?
I have to ask. Can you prove god even exists? If not your whole argument is lost! Remember your proof has to be testable
“The whole point to making the comment about scientists in time past believing that the earth was the center of the universe was based on evidentiary facts.”
WRONG!!!! It was a belief based on religion!
“But I am saying that it is not good to trust wholeheartedly in imperfect humans.”
That is what you are doing by believing in the Bible.
Have you ever subjected your own beliefs to the scientific method How would that turn out?
For what it’s worth–and you may not think it’s worth much–I love you and God loves you. It’s up to you now. If you ever want to talk about God in a personal setting, let me know.
Also, for what it’s worth, no one in the realm of evolutionists has stated exactly how life began on earth (not with evidence, I mean). I mean, there is no way to say exactly how. That’s all I’ve been saying. Would you please send me a link to something about it? I would honestly appreciate it.
Proteome
Thank you. that’s very nice 🙂 and may Gods love be with you. 🙂
I don’t think we will make any head way at convincing each other. You are asking for proof I believe has already been given and you either don’t understand what I am saying or I am not explaining properly. I will go with the later.
Let’s just leave it at the nice sentiments which you offered first.