Hot dicussion of the month! Last Move to top.
The biggest problem with any conspiracy theory is that for any real questions there are a dozen hair-brained ideas as to what happened. No matter what happened on 9/11, the event has become a new Kennedy assassination in the lore of possible conspiracies, with theories ranging from stupidity and a failure of leadership in the face of direct warnings to an Operation Northwoods-type government operation. Those making accusations carry varying levels of credibility, further muddying the waters of the debate.
Kevin Barrett believes the U.S. government might have destroyed the World Trade Center. Steven Jones is researching what he calls evidence that the twin towers were brought down by explosives detonated inside them, not by hijacked airliners.
These men aren’t uneducated junk scientists: Barrett will teach a class on Islam at the University of Wisconsin this fall, over the protests of more than 60 state legislators. Jones is a tenured physicist at Brigham Young University whose mainstream academic job has made him a hero to conspiracy theorists.
According to polls, some Americans believe in 9/11 conspiracy theory.
With the fifth anniversary of the Sept. 11 attacks quickly approaching, skepticism about the circumstances surrounding the tragedy is strong, as one in three Americans believe officials in the federal government either assisted or took no action to stop the attacks, according to a recent survey. About 36 percent of the 1,010 respondents in a national Scripps Howard/Ohio University poll said that they thought U.S. government officials were involved in the Sept. 11 atrocities because they wanted the U.S. to go to war in the Middle East.
Some accusations come from unusual sources.
The Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.)’s publishing arm has released a book that says President Bush organized New York’s Sept. 11 attacks. The decision by the 160-year-old Westminster John Knox Press, the trade and academic publishing imprint of the Presbyterian Publishing Corp., to attribute the attacks on the World Trade Center brings into the U.S. religious mainstream a conspiracy theory long held by the world’s jihadists.
In ‘Christian Faith and the Truth behind 9/11: A Call to Reflection and Action,’ author David Ray Griffin calls the United States the world’s ‘chief embodiment of demonic power, says he initially scoffed at 9/11 conspiracy theories.
Of course, there are also many who dismiss conspiracies. There are a number of people loudly decrying conspiracy theories, so not all the noise is from those thinking the government was behind 9/11.
So what do you think? Ignorance, conspiracy, or terrorist act?
Kragar (the Kaffir?) –
Yes, incompetence never ever plays a part in these conspiracy scenario.
I never said that I believed the government did 9/11. I never said that in one of my postings. What I did questions is the official explanation. I don’t HAVE an explanation for the attack. I just have lot’s o’ questions. I also believe that governments will do anything to retain power, including working together (republicans and democrats) to maintain the status quo.
Now, let’s talk about that bridge…
Frank,
That pic looks like a pretty wild pot party is a happenin’ to me…
Now really, do you believe that I’m not reading was is posted or responded to me? I read Kragar’s link, and it was very informative. See, I’m not close minded. But, I still have other questions.
Anyone have the footage of the terrorists getting on the planes?
Wrong year. Nagin was relected just this year, and Nagin does not face election until next year.
Sorry, second half of the sentence should be “BLANCO does not face election until next year”
Personally, I don’t see an issue with conspiracy theories because I still withhold the right to beleive it or not. Some of the 9/11 root-cause theories are plausible. Can they be proved? Not without extensive research and the chances of that happening are extremely slim. So they are just theories, no harm , no foul.
Why people get up in arms about these theories boggles my mind. The biggest peice of fact that makes me question the currently accepted explanation for the identity of the true perpetrators is the fact that the Department of Homeland Defense draft was written up and put into to law so quickly. It was as if it was in the works for years. It was plannned. Part of a master plan? Who knows. I have no theories for that. Regardless, I like hearing the theories because they are interesting and do stimulate actual thought. Even if that thought is to debunk the conspiracy theory. Come guys, what’s the big deal?
C
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Carcarius,
Isn’t it obvious? The conspirators have moles working these forums to confuse us truth seekers and keep the master plan in place!
Go John! Stick it to the normals!
There is absolutely no hope! I thought the Arabs were stupid ….
Naughty, naughty, John… adding more fuel to the fire… 🙂
They note that every collapse described in their book can be “attributed to lack of redundancy.” In principle, then, so can the fall of the twin towers. The minimalist design, with the building’s weight supported by the core only, provided no additional “legs” in the event of a disastrous impact. However, one expert quoted in the Architectural Record piece above said that no system of columns would have held the building up once the core was compromised.
Also, the B-25 hit at significantly lower speed. The B-25’s maximum speed was 275 mph, and cruising speed was 230 mph. Given that it was flying at low altitude, it would have been flying at less than 200 mph.
By contrast, the plane that hit the North Tower was flying at approximately 400 mph, and the plane that hit the South Tower was flying over 550 mph. (The normal speed for that altitude is only 200 mph.)
The empty weight of the B-25 was 21,120 lb, fully loaded, 33,510 lb., and had a fuel capacity of 670 US gallons.
The maximum weight of the 767 is 450,000 pounds, and has a fuel capacity of 23,980 U.S. gallons.
Thus, the momentum (mass * velocity) of impact on the North tower would be more than 40 times that of the impact on the Empire State Building. The momentum of impact on the South Tower would have been almost 60 times that.
And the amount of fuel would have been 30 times that from the B-25.
LOL… well Named, that is a conspiracy theory if I ever heard one. Nice…
Wrong. The collapse of the towers was actually quite sloppy, with large debris being scattered several blocks away from the site.
Wrong. Both survivors and corpses were recovered from the rubble, and much of the material was intact, including parts of the airplanes.
Why am I skeptical of your claim? Is it just me?
{yawn.}
of which thousands of eye-witnesses heard and acknowledged immediately in real-time
{yawn..}
{falling asleep…}
Can we all agree that we don’t have all the facts nor the full truth of accounts made publicly by our government following the aftermath of 9/11?
I believe the planes had caused enough damage on their own to topple the towers. They hit the right spot to cause a chain reaction allowing the building core support to become compromised. All the unanswered questions come before the planes hit a target. Nobody can be certain of our existing public knowledge.
Let’s hear more theories, maybe one of them will hold water.
C
Any architectural engineer who says it was “IMPOSSIBLE” have happened the moment the saw it is not a very good architectural engineer. Without doing experiments that would be very very poor science. I would hope to never be in a building that they designed. I highly doubt any “qualified” architectural engineer would put their reputation on the line by making such a statement.
Here are some questions for all you conspiracy theorists.
Why bother crashing the planes? Why not just say that the terrorists blew up the buildings or launch rockets at them? Why complicate the scenario increasing your chances of being detected?
J,
Using U.S. planes is free ammunition. The terrorists are naturally frugal and would rather not pay for the cost of their own rockets or explosive devices planted in advance inside the buildings.
We know the terrorists have a low regard for human life, so they don’t care if they lose a few cell members in the process. Detection is desired so we know who did it and can be “afraid” of them. That’s the whole point in being a terrorist.
Anywho, can we agree that the U.S. failed to prevent the attack? Is there any reason for this? Maybe our intelligence are fans of the TV show Survivor and were too interested in watching and talking about the episodes of the time to be able to handle the upcoming threat.
Why go after Iraq so quickly? We now know the WMD didn’t exist. Was our intelligence tricked?
I understand that our government agencies have difficult jobs. Intelligence gathering is made more difficult because technology alone will not provide us with accurate intelligence and getting real U.S. spies where we need them is next to impossible. Is it a good practice to act on poor intelligence?
Our current stance is to fight, fight, fight because we don’t want to look like cowards. Is it possible that we were expected to act this way, and are thus stupidly fighting a losing war?
In truth, we probably had no choice but to do exactly what we are doing now. The previous administrative policies helped to put this act in motion. Our current predicament was 20 years in the making. What do we do now? I would be interested to know what others think.
C
Carcarius
You completely missed the point of my questions.
What kind of “architect” would use a term like “super-extraordinary force”, anyway?
200…whoohoo…it’s a troll armada are there..
RE: #194
> My question still stands.
> When is anything going to be done?
It was done. You missed it. They had a commission and everything. It was even on TV. Ah, but because the conclusion did not fit with your assumptions, you think that nothing has been done.
> troll armada are there..
out there even…;->
Man! This has got to be the trollfest / flamewar of the century!
Like two goats butting horns, but I am the curmudgeonlyest curmudgeon there is, and I would rather err on the side of questioning the dominant paradigm, than succumbing to it. Anyone who believes that the mass media, and the government are telling the truth about this, are severely damaged themselves.
Here we have an EYE WITNESS, many of which I have heard say that there were MULTIPLE explosions after the initial impact of the jets on WTC I and II. Design, schmesign, I don’t care, if you hit that building on the side, something is going to lean if it falls. Common reason tells me this. those jets went in on an angle, not damaging much of the core of the buildings, if any. Though I am not all that convinced, due to lack of evidence, of the explosives theory, I do not discount it either.
Something was up. Something came down, and the only people who know the truth, I believe, are the higher ups in power of these UNITED, or should I say UNTIED States.
Oh yeah, and Mr Root Beer, can you tell me why they took the steel away so quickly, and didn’t examine it, but sold it to the Chinese and Koreans? Huh?
Wow 202, unbelievable.
Dr W. Gene Corley, head of the building performance assessment team, in his testimony to the House of Representatives:
“There has been some concern expressed by others that the work of the team has been hampered because debris was removed from the site and has subsequently been processed for recycling. This is not the case. The team has had full access to the scrap yards and to the site and has been able to obtain numerous samples. At this point there is no indication that having access to each piece of steel from the World Trade Center would make a significant difference to understanding the performance of the structures”.
Source: http://www.house.gov/science/hearings/full02/mar06/corley.htm
From:
http://www.ccdominoes.com/lc/lcg3.html
Again, read this if your questions are legit.
But really now, if you’re out to hide something, you don’t sell all the precious incriminating evidence to who knows who with no idea where it might all end up or have access to it.
RBG
And Roc, you’ll make things a lot easier on everyone, including yourself, if you simply admit that you do not have the wherewithal to analyse or assess any ot the evidence and thus haven’t the slightest clue what happened on 9/11.
RBG
Sorry, I should have closed the blockquote after the first paragraph.
But to make a long story short, your statement, as you had written it, would not be admitted as evidence in any court.
I like you folks,
You LOVE to debate the past….
NOW…
WHY in the HELL would these folks WANT to destroy the WTC???
FInd a few reasons, and I”’ WILL SHUT UP..
The butler did it. Good a theory as any.
ECA –
Because New York magazine rated them #2 in buildings that New Yorkers would like to demolish, right after the Pan Am/Met Life Building. Serious – this was an actual article that appeared in that magazine in the early 1990s.
I just figured it was because they THOUGHT it was part of the WTO…
The butler did it. Good a theory as any.
Ya, but I still want to blame Bush. Everything else is his fault.