That cars have these isn’t news. That the government wants to add these to its ever expanding arsenal of tools to watch over us is not unexpected. Just another crack in our “free” society.
I have no problem using these devices to convict drunk drivers who kill, etc. It’s the other uses that worry me.
Psst, Your Car is Watching You
Few Americans realize that their cars can tattle on them. But among those in the know–civil libertarians, law enforcement agents and consumer advocates–a debate is surging over the black boxes technically called event-data recorders (EDRs). While some welcome them as a safety measure, others fear them as an Orwellian intrusion. Nearly one-third of vehicles on the road today–and 64% of this year’s models–contain the little-noticed chips and sensors.
[…]
This week, the Federal Government is expected to issue rules requiring automakers to standardize the recorders and make the information uniformly downloadable with commercial software. Thus, some manufacturers who have guarded black-box data as proprietary will have to make it accessible. In a nod to critics, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration would also mandate that the devices be disclosed to car buyers.
Privacy advocates are concerned that black boxes combined with global positioning systems, which will soon be common in automobiles, could lead to real-time surveillance, with police issuing speeding tickets for infractions never witnessed in person and insurance companies raising rates based on electronically supervised driving patterns. In what some see as a slippery slope, Ohio-based Progressive Insurance has offered 3.6 million customers the possibility of a $100 annual rebate if they install black boxes that gather six months of data and share that information.
Its not the government you have to worry about with these things, its the insurance co. Expect them not to pay out if you don’t give them access.
I think I’ll worry more about the entity that can actually take my freedom away: the government.
#1 I worry about both since insurance co. can just buy our government …
Why should these things become mandatory without a vote by Congress?
It’s just a question of time (if they aren’t already available in broad distribution) for friendly geeks to create and distribute software that will allow the car owner to manipulate, destroy or replace data that the owner/driver does not want to be seen/read and repace it with absolutely nothing or with made up data.
As usual the masses of drivers will remain clueless (and potentially monitored) but the technically aware will have tools to protect his/her privacy.
#5: and that will be made just as illegal as changing the mileage on your odometer is.
With higher fuel prices I’m driving less and less. My insurance cost isn’t going down. The liability from being on the road less is decreasing. I guess the higher gas prices benefit the insurance industry since they can maintain the premiums being charged while consumers decrease the amount of driving they do. If gas hits $4.00 a gallon, more people will drive less. Maybe this will lower auto insurance premiums. You need mileage data recorders to prove it. My guess is that they will ignore mileage and collect data that justifies charging more to increase profits. The people driving less will subsidize the people driving more by paying the same high premiums. If you drive 600 miles a week and I drive 60 miles a week, we both pay the same in insurance. Your risk of an accident is 100 times greater than mine. Your insurance doesn’t cost 100 times more. Record my mileage and give me a break so I can afford to buy gasoline to drive.
[Editor: Edited for extreme length. Please make your comments more succinct]
Umm, don’t you tell your insurance company what your estimated annual mileage is when your policy is established/renewed? I’m pretty sure your premium is based in part upon how much you plan to drive the vehicle, just as the distance you travel daily to work is a factor.
And of course, the premium amount isn’t going to change until the policy is renewed anyway. Mine goes down every six months as the value of my car depreciates.
Over forty thousand men, women and children die on America’s highways every year; maybe, just maybe, it’s time for some form of real time surveillance. Airline pilots, train engineers and truck drivers live with EOB’s, maybe it’s time every one who steers a potential death dealing missile down the road come under a bit more regulation than a kid riding a bike.
If I were king, you’d need something like an ATC clearance before leaving your driveway.
I’d actually prefer the legal driving be raised to 18. But most parents can’t be bothered to ferry their children around after 16.
Children under 18 are too immature to have sex and carry handguns, yet they are more than capable of driving 80 miles and hour down a crowded interstate. What a joke.
…maybe, just maybe, it’s time for some form of real time surveillance. Airline pilots, train engineers and truck drivers live with EOB’s, maybe it’s time every one who steers a potential death dealing missile down the road come under a bit more regulation than a kid riding a bike.
How about instead of all this spying and real time surveillance, making sure that before somebody is allowed to drive they actually know how to drive. Driver license tests in some (probably most) states are simply a joke.
Edited for extreme length? It’s the Internet. It’s not like we are ever going to run out of space. I’ll try cutting it down to size, since it’s your party here. Thanks.
The government couldn’t care less about your black box. The insurance companies are the ones who care. Going too fast, tough, not covered. Not wearing your seatbelt, tough, not covered. Or they will cover it and drop you as a bad risk. I love how people on this board try to demonize the government on everything. This is a big insurance company push, nothing else.
I don’t worry about government caring what’s in the black box (not enough info in it at the moment), I worry that it’s pro big corp and since it does not care, it may pass some stupid law that will mandate those black boxes in all cars (etc.) and make it easier for big insurance to say “not covered”. I don’t think anybody has to “demonize” this govt., they doing great job themselves.
Can it also “tattle” on those who drive with their radio’s bass “blowing” excessively out their [and my] windows? This is an annoyance and a distraction for idiots who don’t care about anyone’s ability to hear.
The problem with this and most attempts at regulation is that it rarely effects those that are the real consistent law breakers who drive drunk and/or w/o insurance and/or valid tags/license and have nothing to offer in a lawsuit. In fact, I see little benefit over an after the fact crash scene investigation as it’s not real time data monitoring.
BTW, wouldn’t it be funny if someone took progressive’s offer to be monitored for $100 rebate and after analyzing the data, they raised his insurance premium $200.