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Satellite view of the city before and after bombing.
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thats the southern section of Beruit…..it’s a Shia stronghold and Hezbollah had it’s headquarters there along with other command structures intermingled with civilian homes and schools.
I have no sympathy for the adult shia that are being killed, it’s the kids I feel bad about since they have no choice but to live where mom and dad put them.
Without going back over 2000 years of this and that…..there is no good guy/bad guy ion this present episode of the war…but Hezbollah is just a tick away from being the bad guy here.
It’s a shame that innocents are being harmed on both sides, but the greater fault definitely lies with Hezbollah. Randomly firing rockets into civilian areas FROM heavily populated civilian areas while wearing civilian clothing is disgusting. Israel may be carrying out the bombing of Beirut, but it’s Hezbollah’s fault that the civilians are in harms way because of the manner they have chosen to operate. Sad situation all around.
And so the big question is “Who is the bigger monster? The one hiding among the civilians or the one who doesn’t give a f**k and shoots anyway?”
…but Hezbollah is just a tick away from being the bad guy here.
Comment by joshua — 8/4/2006 @ 2:20 pm
I still don’t understand how that excuses Israel. They have angered the world, lost all good relations with Egypt, Jordan, and Saudi Arabia. And not done one thing to make themselves more secure in the process.
This all started because Hezbollah crossed into Israel and grabbed two soldiers. Yet, no where is mentioned the number of times Israel has crossed into Lebanon and kidnapped Lebanese. Israel expects to be above international law and has the perfect fool in Washington to back him up.
The whole thing is one sided. Yet, Israel will never destroy Hezbollah. Bush and the Republicans had better realize that all it will take is for Saudi Arabia and Iran to turn off the taps. It will then take years for the world to recover. So please Mr. Bush, convince Israel they will never win with all those free bombs from the US. Get to the negotiating table.
As pointed out above this is one small section of Beirut. The link below is to a map of the bombed areas from a few days ago. The bottom left eighth is roughly analogous to the photo above.
http://vitalperspective.typepad.com/vital_perspective_clarity/images/beirut.jpg
And for a wider perspective:
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/pictures/beirut2_2.jpg
And for a wider perspective:
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/pictures/beirut2_2.jpg
“And so the big question is “Who is the bigger monster? The one hiding among the civilians or the one who doesn’t give a f**k and shoots anyway?””
they’re doing more than hiding amongst civilians. they’re firing from those locations, making them targets, and lobbing rockets into completely civilian areas.
I would have expected more damage. They should thank “whoever they thank” that the US hasn’t provided some:
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/dumb/blu-82.htm
Or, maybe we have and I hope they drop them “on-camera at night”.
#10 remember the ‘body counts’ from VN?
the Lebanese had every op to get rid of the Hezbollah but didn’t have the yourzbollahz to do it… me, i’m over it… i saw in somalia how the muslims used women and children to shield themselves i.e the men, from the marines… and how they let women and children starve for politics. what we don’t get here is that women and children are just a cut about goats to them. if they could strap bombs to goats and send them in they would but eventhough goats are stupid they aint that stupid, ” seventy two virgin u’s??? ya right…”
And so the big question is “Who is the bigger monster? The one hiding among the civilians or the one who doesn’t give a f**k and shoots anyway?”
To kick your ignorant ass a little more than the other posters…
The one who “doesn’t give a fuck” is trying to protect civilians, not deliberatly kill them. If you can’t see the difference then you’re a big part of the problem in this world, and need to die.
After all, if you’re not with us…
Retort?
Did any of you take the time to think that they are aiming at military targets in Israel. We only get the highly cencored version oked by the government. Just try thinking before you spew out propaganda from either side.
Great maps Milo….they are something you never see on The Middle East network(The BBC) or even on our networks here. It puts into perspective whats taking place as compared to the gnashing of liberal/left teeth and wailing about Israel’s *brutality*.
To answer your question without the overkill of James Hill, Angel….the bigger monster is the one hiding among the civilians in civilian clothing lobbing missiles at the Israeli civilians and not the Israeli military….and screaming…*look at the jews, they are killing civilians*
To Mr. Fusion….the only people angered by this are the same people who criticize Israel no matter what it does. If Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Jordan are so angry….why no response? Why just words, that don’t cost them anything, why no arms shipments to Hezbollah? Because they want Israel to do what it’s trying to do, rid them of Hezbollah, but to appear angry to stave off revolution at home.
This isn’t about 2 soldiers being kidnapped, this is about what the Israeli intellegence was telling them of the massive missile buildup by Hezbollah……missile’s supplied by Iran and Syria….it’s no fluke that the first things bombed were the airports and roads to Syria. Israel has in the past kidnapped leaders of Hama’s and Hezbollah, 2 terror groups that have been behind the suicide (homicide) bombings in Israel for the last 7 years…….they have not been kidnapping Lebanese(unless that happened to be the nationality of the terrorists), they haven’t been kidnapping Lebanese soldiers, or Jordanian or Syrian…..only terroists.
But you know this already….it’s just inconvient facts for you, just like the full size version of those tiny maps of poor war torn Beruit.
“Did any of you take the time to think that they are aiming at military targets in Israel. We only get the highly cencored version oked by the government. Just try thinking before you spew out propaganda from either side. ” – Bubb
if you think hezbollah is conducting a military campaign, i believe it’s you who have bought into propaganda. just look at the history of hezbollah and hamas: these kind of groups target civilians and civilian infrastructure on a consistent basis. the bottom line: hezbollah doesn’t have sophistication to target specific military sites. they don’t know exactly who their rockets are going to hit, and they don’t care. as long as their rockets are killing israelis, they’re happy.
Since when has Saudi Arabia ever been in love with Israel, Mr. Fusion?
Note that the map shown above is significantly less than 1% of the area of the city of Beirut.
it’s still amuses me to see the “but what about the children” and “killing the innocent” arguments pop up as fodder for debate..
this stems from the adult mindset that kids can see the future (as we see the past and present) ie: as if i was killed by a bomb at age 0-present, would i care now
war (and death) is part of our world.. unfortunate as that may be.. it’s the way it is and always will be..
this is war.. war waged by heads of state..
end diatribe..
A lot of explanation can be understood if you take the time to read and listen here http://www.iamthewitness.com/
Am i the only one who feels this blog is leaning towards being antisemitic?
I overheard this the other day and it rings of truth.
If the Arabs lay down their weapons then there would be peace.
If the Jewish nation lays down it’s weapons then Israel will cease to exist.
Moe29, are you saying people can’t debate if Israel is doing the right thing without being anti-semitic?
My favorite commentary on the conflict so far:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/blog/2006/07/worth_10000_words.html
Mr. H. Fusion: Let’s not get into who shot first. Nobody knows.
Seth, Israel wouldn’t exist because it shouldn’t exist. It’s a racist state, founded on the Irgun’s terror.
What should be said at the negotiating table? At this point, Hezbollah’s goal is to wipe out Israel, or at least to kill Jews. Eight soldiers were killed at the same time, but The kidnapping of 2 soldiers is enough justification to start a war. How far from Lebanon is Troy?
#31….alon……because they have corrupted a religion out of hate. The same as some Christians have done. In the days of the Prophet, Jews and Christians could live in the middle east and worship as they pleased, they only had to pay a tax for the privledge. The same in the Caliphates and the Ottoman Empires. There have always been Jews in Palistine, since the time of the Pharohs. The argument that that they have no right to be there is a phony one, usually used by those who have no other reason to use. The founding groups of the area where the Philistines, the Caanites and the Hebrews.
The Jews were given a piece of dirt and sand that no one had done anything with for almost 2000 years except kill eachother on it and turned it into a country, that could feed itself and teach it’s children, and provide employment to it’s people and others(if they wanted it). The only thing that they haven’t been able to achieve is peace.
I seem to remember that a few weeks ago there was not a single Isreali soldier in Lebanon. Hezbollah decides to run a cross border raid and kidnap an Isreali soldier then cries about a “disproprtionate” response by Isreal? Give me a break.
Isreal should systematically carpet bomb Lebanon working from south to north until their soldier is returned.
Like it or not we are in a global war of Muslims against Everyone Else. Muslims have been openly saying this for years. It’s time the rest of the world realizes this and acts accordingly.
Muslims want to convert or destroy all non-Muslims, then they can start killing all the slightly less fervent Muslims, then all the various flavors of Muslims can duke it out until god knows what will be left.
I try to without any success to remember: did we ever hurt them? When? How?
Well, our putting the Shah into power is a good place to start. We could also go into European colonialism, the animosity from which we inherited as the new hegemony.
The history of the area is not only replete with Arab/Arab and Arab/Israeli violence, it is also impacted by the litany of abuse by western powers meddling.
Once reason they hate us is for our hypocrisy. We say we are there for peace and democracy, but support regional dictatorships from Saudi Arabia (the true evil behind 9/11) to Pakistan as long as it suits our goals. We stand by complaining with our mouth full as Lebanon, the most promising democracy in the region, is destroyed. Did Israel really have to destroy Lebanon’s airport, seaport, and power infrastructure?
(BTW, there are some who say that the kidnapped Israeli soldiers were on Lebanese soil when taken.)
Both sides are armpit-deep in the blood, and continuing to shed it helps no one.
Mr. H. Fusion: Let’s not get into who shot first. Nobody knows.
Comment by Milo — 8/4/2006 @ 6:49 pm
Milo, I totally agree that that is irrelevant at this stage. The conflict has moved way past that.
My point is that we should not be totally blaming the Lebanese or Palestinians and excusing Israel. So many comments here have such hatred towards the Palestinians and Lebanese, blaming them for everything. At the same time, I am noticing more antisemitic comments, which isn’t right either. Racist hatred has never won out in the end, I hope it can stop here before it goes any further.
Xully –
Read your history. Israel was established by decree of the UN, in partitioning the former British League of Nations Mandate into Jewish and Arab sectors.