Washington Post – July 30, 2006:
Over a mess-tent dinner of turkey cutlets, the bony-faced 21-year-old private from West Texas looked right at me as he talked about killing Iraqis with casual indifference. It was February, and we were at his small patrol base about 20 miles south of Baghdad. “The truth is, it wasn’t all I thought it was cracked up to be. I mean, I thought killing somebody would be this life-changing experience. And then I did it, and I was like, ‘All right, whatever.’ “
“I shot a guy who wouldn’t stop when we were out at a traffic checkpoint and it was like nothing,” he went on. “Over here, killing people is like squashing an ant. I mean, you kill somebody and it’s like ‘All right, let’s go get some pizza.’ “
But no level of combat stress is an excuse for the kind of brutal acts Green allegedly committed. I suppose I will always look back on our conversations in Mahmudiyah and wonder: Just what did he mean?
Sadly, someone who kills like “squashing ants” when he’s away from sight of home — ain’t much different at home either.
This is the kind of guy you read about driving over someone in the parking lot of a bar — and then his family and neighbors go on and on about “he was always such a good boy and kind to his pets, blah, blah!”
Having no respect for human life ain’t switched on and off by geography.
anyone read catch 22?
but seriously, these days you can get sent home for wanting to be there…
Shouldn’t the reporter be testifying?
Unfortunately, these are actually the kind of people you want fighting a war…
Go team?
Forrest,
Not really. When you are fighting in urban areas with very constrained rules of engagement, you don’t want someone who is indifferent. Urban warfare requires a completely different mindset to the rape/pillage/burn of the past. Vandals didn’t worry about press coverage at home.
Plus, sociaopaths are as apt to drop a grenade in an officer’s tent, because of a percieved slight, as to shoot a three year old kid because they might be booby trapped. Either way, it actually gets in the way of the “war effort”.
#5, forrest, Nope, these are exactly the wrong people you want fighting your war.
A commander needs troops who can and will think when needed to. He needs troops who follow superior’s orders without question, yet know when the order is wrong or illegal. He needs troops who can size up a situation and know what actions will make it worse. He needs troops that can do the job they are given.
A commander doesn’t need troops that will embarrass the unit. He doesn’t need those that go off on their own. He doesn’t need troops that shoot first and think second. He doesn’t need John Wayne type heroes.
Now, the KKK and associated right wing nut militias uses soldiers with mentalities like this.
I wonder what civilians think people sign up for when they join the military. “Protecting Freedom”? “Serving their country”? I saw video on youtube where the marine chant was basically “I want to kill somebody”. Is the military still a fantasy to anyone over 12?
Forest… you obviously know NOTHING about the military. Have you served in the military? Do you even KNOW anyone in the military?
The best members of the military are those with a deep sense of duty and responsibility, a sense of mission and loyalty, and a deep, deep set of moral values. People that would readily kill someone in combat, but would would never consider killing or abusing the same person as a prisoner.
You know nothing of what you speak. The farthest thing from a good military man is a ‘cold blooded killer’.
It seems to me people have always had an over-romanticized and over idealized view of soldiers and warfare. I fail to see the difference between some of these comments and the whole “56 virgins” thing or whatever that people are so fond of ridiculing.
Hey Anon, you make H.Fusion look like a right zealot, good job!
Have any of you guys ever served in the military? I was a Marine and the men I served with were just like everybody else, sure there was bravado but all I encountered were just decent Americans just doing a job(sometimes dangerous) the best they could. Don’t put to much into this story, you can always find aberrations if you look hard enough.
#10…Actually, I know quite a bit of people who have and/or are serving. It’s the crazy nutjobs that are in the miltary that keep the decent ones decent and prevent the rest from going off on the deep end during combat-type situations, especially after seeing some of the dumb things that they do. What they do make others consider thinking about what they do first…
BTW: I never concluded that these were the best members of the miltary (don’t put words into my mouth), but that you would want some of them in the miltary, as with everyone else, they have their niche and serve a purpose.
I’m skeptical. Did they reveal this person’s name?
Someone that I worked with in ’97 was a veteran of the first conflict in Iraq. He showed my a photo album of his time there and in it were a pics of his squad posing for pics with dead Iraqi bodies, propping them up for amusement, and in one pic, there were actually kicking a human head around as if it were a soccer ball.
I brought this up in an online forum back then and received a number of flames accusing me of outright lying. The flames claimed that no US soldier would ever do that as it was inhuman, and bla bla bla… And I say this because I find it amazing that in as complex a world we live in, there are some folks still with such blindered vision that they can’t imagine “our boys” doing this.
I like to think the vast majority of “our boys” are upright and responsible, and I know a few of them and think that they are. I admire the sacrifice they al make and respect that very difficult job they do… But they are all human and thus flawed and thus a few will say and do things that we might call dishonerable. This should not be a reflection on the armed forces as a whole.
Does anyone here read and remember anything? This is Stephen Green, the soldier who raped and murdered a young Iraqi girl and her family. WE KNOW HE’S A PSYCHOPATH.
He does not represent all military members. Keep that in mind.
Right, how many of these “journalist” have been shown to be nothing more than fakers that make up their stories to save their sorry little careers. Just because it’s in print or video doesn’t mean it’s true. But we really just don’t seem to remember this.
Too many of these journalist have a political axe to grind. But that’s what humans do, lie and get other humans to buy it. I’ll wait to make a decision, and try to get more information on the stories I read, see or hear. As for this second hand, “I heard someone say” stuff, either produce the solider or remain labeled a liar
Forrest – Just like I thought.. you never served in the Military, yet you are presumptous enough to tell us how the military works. In other words… a Chickenhawk.
It’s people like you that have gotten us into the mess that we are in… people that know nothing aboutwaht they are talking about, yet because they once shot a gun think they are qualified to speak of military matters.
Our glorious ‘Chickenhawk’ leadership and the people that speak for the right:
George W. Bush – National Guard back when service there meant you did not see combat.
Dick Cheney – did not serve.
John Ashcroft, Attorney General – did not serve.
Don Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense – served in the U.S. Navy (1954-57) as an aviator and flight instructor.
Rep. Dennis Hastert, Speaker of the House – avoided the draft, did not serve.
Rep. Tom Delay, House Majority Leader – avoided the draft, did not serve.
Rep. Roy Blunt, House Majority Whip (MO) – did not serve
Dick Armey, Former House Majority Leader – avoided the draft, did not serve.
Sen. Bill Frist , Senate Majority Leader (TN) – did not serve.
Sen. Mitch McConnell, Majority Whip, (KY) – did not serve.
Sen. Rick Santorum, (PA), third ranking Republican in the Senate – did not serve.
Trent Lott, Former Senate Majority Leader (MS) – avoided the draft, did not serve.
Jeb Bush, Florida Governor – did not serve.
Karl Rove – avoided the draft, did not serve.
Newt Gingrich, Former Speaker of the House – avoided the draft, did not serve.
Bill Bennett, (author of Why We Fight), did not serve.
Antonin Scalia, Supreme Court Justice, did not serve.
Clarence Thomas, Supreme Court Justice, did not serve.
Phil Gramm, former Senator. Did not serve.
Paul Wolfowitz, Deputy Secretary of Defense, did not serve.
Spencer Abraham, Secretary of Energy, did not serve.
Rep. Henry Hyde, (IL) did not serve.
Jack Kemp, did not serve.
Sen. Don Nickles, (OK) did not serve.
J. C. Watts, Former Congressman, (OK), did not serve.
Bill Simon, did not serve.
Saxby Chambliss, did not serve.
Marc Racicot, avoided the draft despite a lottery number of 23
—————————
Right-wing preachers and pundits
P. J. O’Rourke (author of Give War a Chance), did not serve.
Bill Kristol, editor The Weekly Standard, did not serve.
Bill O’Reilly, Fox News celebrity, did not serve.
Sean Hannity, Fox News celebrity, did not serve.
Wolf Blitzer, CNN Newsman. Did not serve.
David Horowitz, Right Wing media hit man. Did not serve.
Mike Savage, Right Wing media hit man, did not serve.
George Will, columnist, did not serve.
Pat Robertson, politician/preacher, His US Senator daddy got him out of Korea when war began.
Ralph Reed, did not serve.
Jerry Falwell, preacher/politician, did not serve.
Ken Starr, did not serve.
Gary Bauer, politician/preacher, did not serve.
Alan Keyes, did not serve.
Roger Ailes, Fox News President, did not serve.
#20 You’re certainly long winded and how does any of that matter anyway?
Are you saying you have to had to serve in the military to make these types of decisions?
Don’t forget Bill Clinton put some of our finest soldiers in harms way and were killed and injured in Somalia and he dodged the draft also, but I’m sure he thought he was doing the right thing.
When Dole was running against Clinton, many in the media said his service was history and didn’t matter in the job of president.
The chickenhawk argument is retarded, and everyone but the moonbats know it.
You don’t have to be a chef to discuss food. You don’t have to be a musician to discuss music, and you don’t have to be military to have an opinion. Period.
They use it to try to shut down any discussion and cheapen valid arguments. It’s EXACTLY the kind of cheap-shot tactic they complain Karl Rove & Co. does all the time. It’s pathetic and everyone is starting to see right through it.
I like to know where malren came across the “moonbat” phrase. Does he have a bet with a co-worker to see how many posts he can make here at Dvorak.org with “moonbat” in them?
But anyway, it’s also the same tactics they use to shoot down Hollywood stars when they have a political opinion.
Oh, and Awake, did not serve. (no matter what you write, I’ll never believe they let some goofball like you in the military….you were the Barney Fife that got a job as a security company and wants to show the world the 4F the Army gave him was a bum rap”)
My service.. only 8 years. Nothing much.
Let’s look at “the other side”
Military service by prominent Democrats:
Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle – 1st Lt., U.S. Air Force SAC 1969-72 .
Senator Tom Harkin (D-IA) – Lt., U.S. Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve, 1968-74. (1, 2)
Senator Fritz Hollings (D-SC) – served as a U.S. Army officer in World War II, receiving the Bronze Star and seven campaign ribbons.
Senator Daniel Inouye, US Army 1943-’47; Medal of Honor, World War Two.
Senator Ted Kennedy (D-MA) – U.S. Army, 1951-1953. o
Senator John Kerry, Lt., U.S. Navy 1966-70; Silver Star, Bronze Star with Combat V, and three awards of the Purple Heart for his service in combat.
Senator Jack Reed (D-RI) – U.S. Army Ranger, 1971-1979; Captain, Army Reserve 1979-91 (1)
Max Cleland, Former Senator, Captain, U.S. Army 1965-68; Silver Star & Bronze Star, Vietnam
Bob Kerrey, Former Senator, Lt. j.g., U.S. Navy 1966-69; Medal of Honor, Vietnam.
Rep. Richard Gephardt, former House Minority Leader – Missouri Air National Guard, 1965-71.
Rep. David Bonior, Representative, (D-MI) – Former House Minority Whip – Staff Sgt., Air Force, 1968-72
Rep. Mike Thompson, D-CA: Staff sergeant/platoon leader with the 173rd Airborne Brigade, U.S. Army; was wounded and received a Purple Heart.
Rep. Pete Stark, D-CA, served in the Air Force 1955-57
Wesley Clark, General, US Army.
Al Gore, Former Vice President – enlisted August 1969; sent to Vietnam January 1971.
Bill Clinton, did not serve.
—————————-
“You don’t have to be a chef to discuss food. You don’t have to be a musician to discuss music, and you don’t have to be military to have an opinion. Period.”
But it sure helps if you have some experience in the kitchen before you try to cook, eaten at a few fine restaurants before you discuss food quality, drank something besides ‘Bud’ before you discuss beer, have gone to a few concerts before you discuss music, and have been in the military to describe what a good military man is all about.
For some reason people that are uttrly clueless about what it is like to be in the military love to tell everyone what the military should be doing… realistically they are at the same level as the senator that says that the Internet is a bunch of tubes. And I’m sure that same senator knows exactly and regularly tells the military what they should be doing right now. Scary thought/
Take for example that moron Michael Savage… yeah yeah yeah… support our troops this, fight the war that… yet what has he done that isn’t entirely for his own exclusive benefit his whole life… nothing. Empty talk.
Your little chickenhawk list is a weak argument. Do you really want to say that military service should dictate who sets war policy? Which way do you think the current military members would vote? Veterans? Also, if you compared all members of Congress, who do you think has more miltary service members? You throw in Wesley Clark and Jack kemp and Phil Gramm, why not McCain? and BIll Simon???? What’s he doing in there.
All the Army men I have met are d***s. Honestly I prefer the men in blue.
Jesus Christ!
Awake will you give it a break, we all know your a loyal Democrat and a great American, enough with the list already.
Oh, btw Harkin had a little trouble discribing what exactly he did in service, I think there was some embellishing of the facts.
Clinton did NOT dodge the draft. Going to college, as a Rhodes Scholar no less, is not dodging a damn thing.
I tire quickly of the canard that military service should be a requirement for the Presidency or any other political position. Is it helpful? Probably yes. Is it essential, definately not.
Clinton was the most successful president of my lifetime and one of the best of his century.
I’ll sit back now and await the posting from a conservative about how Clinton was evil and a degenerate and how Reagan was ascended by God himself to revive America to its full glory. (even though that obviously isn’t true)
#30 You’re being a history revisionist, of course Clinton dodge the draft and he certainly wasn’t alone in this.Your just blinded by your loyalty to the man.I’m sure Reagan didnt ascend from the heavens but neither did Clinton.
So try to calm down, you’ll live longer.
So EVERYONE who didn’t serve was a draft dodger? Even though the law allowed for college students to be exempt?