reposted by popular demand
At noon on Friday there were a series of small explosions high in the air above the city of Tyre and thousands of little pieces of cheap yellow paper came fluttering to earth. ‘To the inhabitants of villages situated south of the Litani River,’ the leaflets read. ‘Because of terrorist attacks against the state of Israel, which come from your villages and between your houses, the Israeli army is forced to respond to these attacks even inside your villages. For your security you must immediately leave your village and go to the north of the Litani river.’
But most of Tyre’s 80,000 people had already gone by then, driven from their homes by days of Israeli shelling and bombing that has killed more than 330 innocent civilians and a handful of Hezbollah militants.
By yesterday afternoon, Tyre, cradle of the Phoenician civilisation, one of the ancient Mediterranean’s mightiest cities, a world heritage site and an archaeological jewel was almost a ghost town. Among those refusing to flee was the 70-year-old mayor, Abdul Musa Husseini, who defiantly remained in his office along with a group of aides and policemen.
‘I would rather die with dignity and honour in my own home than die fleeing on the road,’ he said. ‘This is much worse than in 1982. Then they attacked the Palestinians, Syrians, fighting men. Now they are just targeting civilians.’
‘The Israelis are treating us like meat in a butcher’s shop,’ shouted Sabah Safiabddin, 45.
The shells and bombs continued to rain down on Lebanon yesterday, targeting roads, bridges, buildings, homes, vehicles and people. Last week, a leading Israeli hawk coined a new euphemism, describing the Israeli Air Force’s targets as Lebanon’s ‘material and human infrastructure’.
With no real aerial defences, the Lebanese are powerless to resist the onslaught. Yesterday, it was reported that the US is speeding a fresh consignment of bombs and missiles to Israel to replace the ones it has already expended.
The whole world knows how one-sided US government policies have always been in the Middle East. Oh, yes — and 9/11 will be quoted somewhere to justify it all.
Wow. I expected a more intelligent and thought-out blog entry from Mr. Devorak. I am sorely disappointed. I see know that he is all talk and no substance. It is as if he put this article up just because it was in the news, not because he had any insight to add.
If my neighbor had machine guns, mortars, flame throwers at his house, the last thing I would do would be to attack him with a kitchen knife……..
These Hezbollah people, if you want to go that far and call them that, are a bunch of crazy idiots.
Leave Israel and their little strip of land alone and everything is ok.
Crazy people…… and cowards to boot.
Mr. Fusion, and others……Just in the last 2 years Israel turned over Gaza to the Palistian goverment. Since that day, 600 missils have been launched at Israelie cities from Gaza. 24,000 Israelie civilians have been killed, maimed or wounded since 1999 by Hama’s and Al Fatah. 513 Jewish civlians have been killed by suicide(homocide) bombers coming from the west bank or Gaza in the last 4 years.
Hezbollah has been firing on average 9 missels a week into northern Israel villages and towns since 2000 when Israel agreed to leave Lebanon in a U.N. brokered deal that called for the Lebanese goverment to disarm Hezbollah in exchange for the Jewish army leaving southern Lebanon. Instead, the Lebanese goverment has allowed them to become part of the goverment and to set up a virtual independent state in southern Lebanon. They have and do use civilians as shields(I’ve NEVER heard of the Israelies doing this)and have by their own admission stock piled missels, small arms, bombs in civilian homes and businesses.
There are many people in this world who would never support Israel no matter what. Of course most are Muslims, but there are even Jews amound this group and Liberals(not all of course) from any country in the west.
I don’t have a problem with what the Israelies are doing. They are attempting to take out an enemy that is difficult at best to pick out from any other civilian, one that has sworn to eliminate them from the earth.
A terrorist group that has the full backing of Iran and Syria. A group that would not hesitate to blow into little peices a Liberal, who supports them, and his wife, children and Grandmother while they were eating at a resturant in Paris, Berlin, London, Madrid, Cairo, Beruit, or Tel Aviv, just because the Liberal wasn’t one of them.
Bush hasn’t done anything in many years that I agree with, but this time I fully agree with allowing the Jewish army to co what it’s doing unimpeded.
If I haven’t pissed you off entirely, then I wish you would read this article I’m putting a link to. In fact, you might want to read the Editorial of the Washington Post on July 18th as well.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/weeklystandard/20060725/cm_weeklystandard/europemeetsisrael
I know it’s hard to ever accept what your country is doing for some of you and harder still to accept what countries that are allied with us are doing…..but give open mindedness a try this once.
You people are nuts. Appeasement didn’t work in WWII, it hasn’t worked in the Middle East, and will never work! The only way to stop these animals is to hunt them down, eliminate them, destroy their lines of communication,. In other words, eradicate the infestation of terror. It’s laughable that people demonize a sovern nation for protecting it’s citizens, but don’t show the same contempt for the individuals or organizations responsible for aggression in the first place. I am ashamed of those people how give terrorist groups a pass by saying this would all go away if the west left the middle east. This will not go away until the ideology is erased. Islomo-facists are hell bent (ironic choice of words, huh) on the destruction of the west and Israel because of their “religious” beliefs. It’s sad, it’s criminal, and yes, it’s their own damn fault. This seventh century mentality is just plain barbaric. Negotiations will not work. Land for peace will not work. Rational thought will not work. They are the aggressors, not the west. If you believe otherwise, you are foolish, you are selfish, and you are misinformed. Ask yourself this question: Would you rather be apart of the imperfect western society that you affords you the liberty to rant and rave about it’s shortcomings, or be part of a religous oppressive regime such as those that are currently causing famine in Africa, and death throughout the Middle East? If you answer the latter, you, my friends, are beyond help.
Okay – breathe….
#31,
Eideard (the editor that posted this) may have wanted to bring up the subject for discussion, as it begs debate so ferociously.
Crazy people…… and cowards to boot.
They are a great many things, but they are not cowards.
Joshua, your reference is somewhat worse then just biased. It was written under the blindest of reasons, a visitor to Israel being inconvenienced. Just to sum up the author,
Jeffery Gedmin is director of the Aspen Institute Berlin and a member of the advisory board of Knowing Israel, a study tour program for journalists.
In other words, he is a professional Israel brain washer / propagandist.
You said that 24,000 Israelis have been killed, maimed, or wounded by Hamas and al Fatah. Gedman stated that they had been assaulted, would you care to provide a reference to your version? If these numbers came from Israelis, would you also post the corresponding number of Palestinians that have been killed and injured by Israeli incursions?
How about reading something written by another Israeli.
http://tinyurl.com/nx92j
This war is not a just war. Israel is using excessive force without distinguishing between civilian population and enemy, whose sole purpose is extortion. That is not to say that morality and justice are on Hezbollah’s side. Most certainly not. But the fact that Hezbollah “started it” when it kidnapped soldiers from across an international border does not even begin to tilt the scales of justice toward our side…
Hezbollah crossed a border that is recognized by the international community. That is true. What we are forgetting is that ever since our withdrawal from Lebanon, the Israel Air Force has conducted photo-surveillance sorties on a daily basis in Lebanese airspace. While these flights caused no casualties, border violations are border violations. Here too, morality is not on our side.
So much for the history of morality. Now, let’s consider current affairs. What exactly is the difference between launching Katyushas into civilian population centers in Israel and the Israel Air Force bombing population centers in south Beirut, Tyre, Sidon and Tripoli? The IDF has fired thousands of shells into south Lebanon villages, alleging that Hezbollah men are concealed among the civilian population. Approximately 25 Israeli civilians have been killed as a result of Katyusha missiles to date. The number of dead in Lebanon, the vast majority comprised of civilians who have nothing to do with Hezbollah, is more than 300.
…
If Israel and the US were truly desiring peace in the mid-east, they would work towards it. They would work with Palestine and Lebanon to achieve stability with strong governments. They would encourage strong economies. A full belly is much less disparate then an empty belly.
Mr H. Fusion,
Yes, you’re right. “Only” SOME attacks have been done by arabs and other muslims against western countries. I have heard of NONE by the Israelis. Once again, the sentence that drew me nuts was “I find them both offensive, but which sounds scarier to you??” Israelis might even be killing a lot of Lebanese civilians (you may bet a lot of Israelis civilians are also being killed), but, as a westerner, I am certainly not affraid of them.
As said by others in this forum, just leave Israel alone and it will not attack anyone. Of course, no one is condemning Iran for saying openly it wants the extermination of the Israeli state. The Iran that supports Hezbollah. Just stop for one minute and tell me one state that Israel has sworn to destroy just for the sake of it. One.
It would be nice if Mr. Dvorak also posted an article about the thousands of Israelis slaughtered throughout the years, but that would be too balanced wouldn’t it? Why are liberals so anti Israel?
Israel pulled out of Lebanon. Hezbollah crossed an internationally recognized border and kidnapped two Israeli soldiers. The Israelis have every right to retaliate.
#39, Miguel, Yes, you’re right. “Only” SOME attacks have been done by arabs and other muslims against western countries. I have heard of NONE by the Israelis.
Now let’s contrast that by how many attacks have been done by westerners against Arab states and Muslims. Let’s start around 1948 as the Arab world was emerging from the shackles of colonialism.
Arab land that had been owned and farmed for centuries was suddenly part of the new Jewish state of Israel.
The popularly elected government of Iran was overthrown and the Shah put on the throne. By the CIA.
A King was imposed upon Egypt by Britain. Same as what happened in Iran. Most of the mid-east was divided into areas that had little to do with reality. Hence, Kuwait, Bahrain, Dubai, and others were carved out of Arabia for no reason then as personal kingdoms. Instead of democracies, Sheiks were allowed to establish Kingdoms. Puppet rulers are installed in most countries by either the West or the Soviet Bloc.
France brutally opposes an Arab uprising in Algeria, massacring thousands.
Britain and France invade Egypt, seizing the Suez Canal.
The United States constantly vetoes United Nation Resolutions condemning Israeli aggression.
The United States supplies military equipment to Israel to invade Lebanon. Over 100,000 Lebanese die as a result and over a million are dispossessed.
Israel participates in the annihilation of a refugee camp in southern Lebanon, killing thousands of women and children in cold blood.
The USSR invades Afghanistan. A ten year war ensues where hundreds of thousands of Afghanis lost there lives and even more were maimed.
The West will not bring India to leave Kashmir, a Muslim area that was to be given free elections to decide whether they would be in Muslim Pakistan or Hindu controlled India.
The United States gives Saddam Hussein weapons to attack Iran. These include chemical and biological. Iraq not only uses the UN supplied WMDs on Iran, but on Iraqis who rebelled as well.
The United States shoot down an Iranian’s civilian passenger plane. President Regan says sorry, but blames the Iranians for having a flight path that happened to be over international waters.
The United States sinks Iranian boats without provocation and shells shore installations.
…
OK, can you understand that maybe the Western Nations might have caused some enmity over the past 60 years? Note this is a very brief history and could be expanded quite a lot. Many books have been written on just parts of this history.
sorry fusion…..but a full belly isn’t the problem here. Religious zealotry is.
Israel has been giving up the annexed territory for over 2 years…….but that hasn’t made peace any closer or more likely.
I guess what amazes me is that an educated adult, in the west can’t see the difference between what israel has done over the last 60 yars and what the Arab goverments and now the terrorists have done. Just how many Jews have you seen sneaking into Jordan or Syria, or Gaza, or Lebanon and blowing them selves up in weddings, busses, schools, resturants, clubs or bar mitzvhas???
Of course there is propaganda, by both sides, but Israel has made an effort to target only military or terrorist facilities and people. The terrorists have never bothered to make even a perfunctory attempt to avoid civilians, and has in fact specifficaly targeted them. If you purposely hide amound the civilans as Arafat’s AL Fatah does or Hamas or Hezbollah, you know that either the enemy won’t take the chance of killing civilians (unless it’s another terrorist state or group) or they will attempt yo root you out and incur civilian casualties, there by giving you a great propaganda tool. The sad part is that so many westeners buy into it.
I understand why the E.U. as a group always defends the Palestians, it’s because they have ingrown, cultural anti-semitism and have always had it, public prostrations of not being anti-semitic mean nothing. It isn’t surprising that the 1 nation that has consistantly backed Israel, the U.S. has less of a history of anti-semitism than old Europe. The U.K., which has quite a history of anti-semitism has through the years been pretty supportive of Israel, making it the lone European power to do so.
As to my figures, I got them from an editorial in the Sunday or Saturday London Times. They are also available from the U.S. State Department site dealing with the Middle East.
What I do find interesting is that Russia has said nothing since the G8 summit and even then they blamed Hamas and Hezbollah, both groups they have supported in the past. Israel must do what it has to do to survive, they have 60 years almost of being at constant war, I think if they could, they would opt for peace and in fact have, to bad the others haven’t.
#27….Mr. Fusion….those are already paid for prescision guided bombs that they need to try to avoid more civilian death.
John’ Do us a favor and stay AWAY FROM POLITICS. It won’t make you any new friends and probably the opposite!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Best Regards
GS
I guess what amazes me is that an educated adult, in the west can’t see the difference between what israel has done over the last 60 yars and what the Arab goverments and now the terrorists have done. Just how many Jews have you seen sneaking into Jordan or Syria, or Gaza, or Lebanon and blowing them selves up in weddings, busses, schools, resturants, clubs or bar mitzvhas???
joshua, c’mon, either shit or get off the pot. Of course the Jews don’t have to sneak into other countries. They just send some US supplied planes or helicopters to send missiles or bombs that kill more then the suicide bombers do.
#27….Mr. Fusion….those are already paid for prescision guided bombs that they need to try to avoid more civilian death.
Comment by joshua — 7/25/2006 @ 7:26 pm
By shooting them at civilian targets? By bombing United Nations posts? By hitting civilian air raid shelters?
It is illegal for the United States to take sides and supply weapons of war to belligerents. Once the hostilities started, all exports of weapons headed towards Israel should have stopped.
Joshua, after some reflection on your comments, I have to confess something. You would make a great writer for Bill Reilly. Shoot man, ignore reality and keep harping on the same bull and sooner or later it will all come true. Heck, you could fall right into the Fox Spews mind warp without missing a beat. Just don’t tell them you think Bush might have made a mistake or two.
It is illegal for the United States to take sides and supply weapons of war to belligerents.
Huh? Where do people get these ideas? I hear the same thing all the time here in Australia… “The US invasion of Iraq was illegal”.
When did the US pass laws against defending itself or honoring defense agreements?
The answer I get is “International Law”. When I ask for specifics, they can’t come up with any. They then claim that the UN has laws that superceed US law. And, here is the kicker, if there is no UN law against war, then there should be.
I have to remind them that the US is a soverign nation who has never granted the UN the right to tell us what to do. The UN is a body to resolve disputes, including using military force. It is not more than that.
# 49, Ron, two entirely different things here.
The Iraq adventure was internationally illegal because the UN Security Council didn’t authorize the use of force to invade Iraq. That the US Congressional authorization was based upon fraud is another issue to consider when saying the Iraq invasion was illegal.
The Neutrality Act states that the US may not take sides when two countries are at war. They may not supply weapons to either side except upon a cash basis and no US vessel may enter the war zone. And any American citizen that voluntarily joins the armed services of one of the belligerents commits a felony.
Nazi Propaganda Minister Joseph Goebbels said: “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.”
Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering, before committing suicide at the Nuremberg Trials, said: ‘Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.’
Just one problem with that “United Nations post”. It was crawling with Hizbullah, not that it bothered the UN in the least.
The leaflets are a nice historical touch. Sounds just like those distributed by Himmler around Lidice after Heydrich’s assassination.
As I recall, there were plenty of folks like Frank around, then, too. And Dave and Gershon and all the other nice people who know in their hearts that, after all, the Israelis are “civilized” people. And they’re on “our” side. Whatever that means.
Just one problem with that “United Nations post”. It was crawling with Hizbullah, not that it bothered the UN in the least.
Comment by Frank IBC — 7/26/2006 @ 6:38 pm
Sorry Frank, I haven’t hears that. Have you got a link or are you just perpetuating another big lie.
European people need to return to their ethnocentric religions and forget about Christianity and all this crap in the Middle East. A people that values honor has little in common with one that values chutzpah.
Frank, I just did some searching. Nope, I couldn’t find any credible reference to your post #52. Must have been a lie. A big one too.
http://tinyurl.com/oyv4p
UNITED NATIONS, July 26 — The United Nations said today that its top officials in New York and its officers on the ground in Lebanon made repeated calls Tuesday to the Israeli mission and the Israeli military protesting repeated firing on its outpost in Lebanon where as many as four peacekeepers ended up being killed.
Jane Lute, the assistant secretary general for peacekeeping operations, told an emergency meeting of the Security Council that over the six-hour period in which the warnings were being conveyed to the Israelis, the patrol base at Khiam in southern Lebanon continued to come under fire, subjected to a total of 21 strikes from the air, 12 of them artillery rounds.
She described the site as “well known and clearly marked” and added that no Hezbollah firing was taking place in the area during the period….
When the United Nations force in Lebanon, known as UNIFIL, reported losing contact with the outpost, it secured safe passage from Israel to send in Indian troops, who found the shelter collapsed and the remains of three of the four peacekeepers. The fourth is presumed dead, she said.
“Firing continued during the rescue operation despite repeated requests to the I.D.F. for an abatement,” she said, speaking of the Israeli Defense Forces.
She said that UNIFIL had reported 145 incidents of “close firings” with several positions taking direct hits and sustaining damage to buildings, equipment and vehicles.
http://tinyurl.com/gmg3s
JERUSALEM — UN observers in Lebanon telephoned the Israeli military 10 times in six hours to ask it to stop shelling near their position before an Israeli attack destroyed their border outpost, …
During the shelling, the observers took refuge in a bomb shelter designed to withstand a strike by a 155-mm artillery shell, UN officials said. The bunker collapsed in the attack, and the extent of the damage suggests it was hit with a large bomb, said Brig.-Gen. J.P. Nehra, the deputy force commander for the UN peacekeeping force in Lebanon known as UNIFIL.
“We can only say the destruction of the bunker was quite devastating, of the kind that aerial bombs can achieve — the ones of the very heavy variety,” he said.
UN officials said Hezbollah militants had been operating in the area of the post, a routine tactic to prevent Israel from attacking them.
“We did repeatedly in recent days say (to Israel) that this was an exposed position, that Hezbollah militants were 500 metres away shielding themselves near UN workers and civilians,” UN humanitarian chief Jan Egeland said. “That’s why it is so inexplicable that what happened happened.”
UN officials said Hezbollah militants had been operating in the area of the post, a routine tactic to prevent Israel from attacking them.
“We did repeatedly in recent days say (to Israel) that this was an exposed position, that Hezbollah militants were 500 metres away shielding themselves near UN workers and civilians,” UN humanitarian chief Jan Egeland said.
So you admit that Hizbullah was using the UN as a human shield?
But wait, UN “peacekeepers” are not unarmed civilians. So why didn’t they make an effort to force Hizbullah away from their post?
If the UN made no effort to make Hizbullah leave the vicinity of their post, then the post is a legitimate target.
Thank you. Now you may be dismissed.
So Mr. Fusion believes that the war in Iraq is “illegal” because it violates the stipulations of the UN. The same UN which permits Hizbullah to attack Israel from its posts, the senior officials of which has profited sickeingly from the so-called “Oil for Food Program”, which has done nothing to prevent genocide in Rwanda, Burundi, Bosnia, or Darfur… and of course the same UN which necessitated the Iraq War in the first place, because of its refusal to enforce its own resolutions regarding WMD inspections in Iraq.
Frank, the UN peacekeepers, one a Canadian like myself, were unarmed.
So how the heck do they expect to “keep the peace”?
Through martial arts like McGyver or something?
I like your comments Mr. Fusion most of the time and even agree with many of them. But, you have a bad habit of calling anyone who disagrees with you or your stance on any situation political *liar’s, ignorant, uninformed, wrong minded, stupid, neocon, etc., etc*……then when they give you legitimate sources of their facts(and most times they ARE facts, just conviently ignored by you), you then start complaining about the sources, they are right winger, neocon, conservative, religious fringe, so on and so on. But when you are pointed to media sources that you like and shown the facts as printed by them you ignore them and go on attacking the other person”s credability, intelligence and so on. This is a tactic often used by left wing groups, who react to inconvient facts with hysteria or smearing. I realize that right wing groups do the same thing, but we know your not right wing, don’t we?
As to your citing the Neutrality Act…..apparently you haven’t read it, or you read it like you do the Constitution, selectively.(a habit you have in common with our present President)
The act was passed in 1935….to prevent, without a declaration of war, american CITIZENS from helping, joining or taking sides, or selling arms to any of the belligerants.
In 1937…the isolationists closed the loophole of the 1935 law by tightning the restrictions on U.S. businesses, and PRIVATE CITIZENS from taking sides with or supplying aid to belligerents. It also stated that there had to be a declaration of war between the belligerents. It says that if the President wishes to aid one side or another he must declare war(with congress)…Roosevelt, and following Presidents have used that as their loop hole for aiding one side or another, by not calling it a declared war, just a military action(see Israel/Hezbollah/Hamas 2006).
In 1939 the law was amended again, this time prohibiting U.S. warships in a war zone and only selling war materials on a cash and carry system only. In 1941, the law had it’s last amendment, rescinding those restrictions, thus allowing the lend lease system to be founded.
The Israeli goverment and the U.S. already had the agreement for these bombs long before this latest incident, and based on that, the shipping of the arms is legal. You might want to check the history of the previous Israeli wars with it’s neighbors in the last 60 years, you will note we have always resupplied them as needed. Just as the then USSR resupplied Egypt, Syria, and Jordan during those flareups. Once again that dreaded word…..PRECEDENT…… comes up.
You may not like Franks answers, but he is right on about the U.N. outpost. The U.N. is now claiming that there observors didn’t see any *shooting* back by the Hezbollah that was operating in close proximity to their observation post. You and others just can’t grasp that Hezbollah, Hamas and other terrorist groups use civilians or anything else they can as shields, this is just another example.
Oh…and we didn’t set the Shah up in 1953……he was already the ruler of Iran, since 1945. His family had ruled since 1921 and before that there was another native dynasty. When the Shah and his P.M. asked each other to leave the country in 1953 a duel of wills insued, the Shah went to Rome and the CIA helped forment pro-Shah revolt at home and he was returned to his throne that same year.
#59….Sladen….which is why Israel refuses to stop until a force with *enforcement* powers are put on the border. The U.N. force wasn’t allowed to fight, or do anything to stop any war like activity, just observe.
As we all know, the U.N is only good for stealing, rape and observing.
I agree with Israel, that a NATO force with fire power to enforce it’s will is whats needed.
I find it amusing that while we provide Isreal with more weapons we want to provide aid to Lebanon.