At least this means the research will go on. Why don’t people bug the fertility clinics over their wasted embryos?
At the end of a passionate debate, which pitted liberal and conservative countries against each other, Germany dropped its objections and threw its weight behind the compromise. This will allow individual member states to continue to spend money from the EU’s £37bn science budget on research into human embryonic stem cells.
This article was followed by another predicting an American brain drain:
A week after George Bush limited federal funds for the highly sensitive area, the EU warned Washington that “disillusioned” US scientists will want to make the most of Europe’s more liberal rules.
Why is it that the only issue Bush has any spine on is this one? Where was his veto pen while the GOP spent us into the poor house?
This is another step towards United States obsolescence. While other countries are making slides into more objective, scientific breakthroughs, finding cures for diseases, we will be stuck here watching the 500 club waiting for the rapture.
A Republican candidate can’t win the Presidency without the religious right. True this President is a lame duck, but he’s still the head of the party as long as he’s in office. Even a moderate Republican candidate will have to make unpleasant concessions the the religious right. That’s American politics.
We already are obsolete (United States). The only question is how much more of a decline we have to go through before we realize it.J
At least we don’t have to worry about brain drain on the Potomac. Just ideological pollution.
This isn’t a simple issue. This is really much like the abortion issue. It involves ending human life, even if it is early human life. It’s further complicated by a few issues. One, it will almost inevitably lead to some form of human cloning to be most practical. Another issue is that some in the scientific community see adult stem cells as being a more valuable use of funds. There have been some pretty promising breakthroughs in that field.
On a personal note, I’ve been very unimpressed with stem cell research in general. It’s full of insanely large claims without much to show. It’s certainly an interesting field, but saying we need fetal stem cells to move forward seems, at this point, overdramatic and premature. Of course, I’m just a grad student. I don’t have any real credential to validate these opinions.
@1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
The only thing headed towards obsolescence are opinions like yours. You’re in the minority for a reason, and you provide no hint to that changing.
It is a testament to the idiocy of the average Bush supporter that (s)he supports Bush in his stance of not funding/funding stem cell research.
Bush claims both that he is defending the culture of life and is the first President to fund stem cell research, depending on the question. Another example of Bush’s rock solid moral stance!
To #9.
While I’m not a “Bush supporter,” I think you are just confused. Bush is all about funding stem cell research. He’s against funding research using fetal stem cells only, because, as the name implies, the process involves killing fetuses. It’s a really messy subject, and the media tends to turn it into gross oversimplifications.
Kevin: Bush is the first President to fund fetal stem cell research.
Milo: with existing embryonic stem cell lines.
I’m a republican and a conservative (no kidding, right?), however I believe in the science behind stem cell research. (Not just Fetal stem cells.) I don’t agree with everything our (yes, OUR) president does. However, I don’t understand how everything is his fault: “Why is it that the only issue Bush has any spine on is this one? Where was his veto pen while the GOP spent us into the poor house?” Let me guess…President Bush was behind the Kennedy conspiracy? He was behind the bubble bursting of the technology market? Oh, I know…he orchestrated the kidnapping of the two Israeli soldiers just to start a larger war. Yep, that must be it.
I’m with 16.
That made no sense.
William…I was quoting the biases of the author, “Where was his veto pen while the GOP spent us into the poor house?”, and how most items on this site are blamed directly on President Bush. I was making the leap to ridiculous suggesting that he was behind the Kennedy conspiracy (just as ridiculous as most of the other nonsense posted).
@11
Casting a big net around here is sport these days.
@ 7 People dont seem to realize those embryeos would have been lost anyway. And maybe youwould see more impressive researcb uf the religious right would get out of the way.
#8 – Hey James Hill… Who is in the minority?
The 50% who for Bush or the 50% who voted against him?
7 It involves ending human life, even if it is early human life.
Which is why I prefer embryonic stem cell research, since I don’t believe human life begins at conception.
7 it will almost inevitably lead to some form of human cloning to be most practical.
Practical for what? Parkinson’s, spinal breaks [ala Reeve], Alzheimer’s MS?
7 some in the scientific community see adult stem cells as being a more valuable use of funds.
Is someone banning funding for adult stem cell research? Don’t all researchers believe their own research is a valuable use of funds?
7 but saying we need fetal stem cells to move forward seems, at this point, overdramatic and premature.
The linked article is regaridng the use of embryonic stem cells, not fetal stem cells… or am I making too fine a distinction?
Kevin: So you believe in federal government funding for fetal stem cell research, as does Bush.
From the article:
Elisabeth Gehrer, the Austrian minister, echoed her remarks. “Do we really want 300-400 fertilised human embryos to be destroyed to create stem cells? This destruction of human embryos to create stem cell lines is not something we can support. We do not want community money, which includes Austrian money, to support this.”
I just don’t understand the disconnect between being a member-nation of NATO, having your tax money go towards maintining, equiping, and deploying miltary units, and having compulsory military service – but not wanting your tax dollars used to “kill” 300-400 embryos…
http://www.bmlv.gv.at/english/overview/geschichte_bh.shtml
Is it the comforting fantasy that the military [for a country which is officially “Neutral”] is only for defence, and not the taking of “innocent” lives…?
Don’t worry about being obsolete guys, I’m sure there are plenty of corporations who will pay enough bribes/PR to make your scientists “look” like top notch Researchers.
It would take a technological scare as big as the Sputnik to shove BS like creationism into the hole it came from and make the next wave of scientists.
My brother, who is a Medical Doctor, as well as a Gentic Researcher has just in the last week recieved 2 offers from European firms to work for them, at double his already outragous salery. They were anticipating this E.U. decision.
He’s mulling at this moment.
Joshua – Tell him to go… If only because spending some quality time in Europe is worth it alone. Also, because once we finally get rid of this incompetent administration, we’ll get back on the track that Clinton started,,, You know, prosperity and all… and then he’ll get kick-ass offers to come back home.
Why does this remind me of the great “Television Industry Loss” debate of the 1980’s? If any of you are old enough to remember, scare mongers where trying to get Congress to fund the development of the next generation of televisions because we (the US) would loose our critical television industry to the Japanese.
Stem Cell research is not outlawed (like some people want). It is still legal. All that has happened is that Bush doesn’t want our tax dollars to pay for it.
Given the amazing amount of creative ways companies and people shuffle money around to hide it from taxes, I am sure they can do the same to sheid stem-cell research from being linked to federal funding.
How to go, Ron. You go remind folks of how it was feared our TV hardware production would be lost to the Japanese.
Instead, it went to the Japanese, Taiwanese, Chinese, French and Dutch. Yeah, your government, your corporations really saved a lot of American jobs. Lots of folks around the world benefitted from crass American politics.
I think one possibility has been widely overlooked, so it’s my duty to present my humble theory…
The “Second Coming” of Jesus was the Bible’s cryptic prediction that Jesus would be cloned from a speck of DNA taken from the Shroud of Turin, grow to manhood, and build the mighty kingdom promised to believers.
Yes, the irony of seeing the Christians fight so hard to prevent human cloning suddenly becomes quite rich, doesn’t it? 😉
Stem cell research is the next step (up or down) from using animals for research. No matter how far human research goes using animals, it will never go as far as if they experiment on real humans, embryonic or not.
Expect more ideology moulding as time goes by…
Has anybody even bothered to think about my question on the wasted embryos from fertility clinics? A big glaring hypocrisy to me.
Smartalix: Those opposed would have to admitt their glaring hypocracy and that of their infallible leader. As you can see they won’t do that and instead are tying to shift the argument to something else. This is not unusual.
>dont seem to realize those embryeos would have been lost anyway.
Old people are going to be lost anyway. Let’s just cut them open now, so that younger people can get helathy organs. I don’t want to hear from any so-called pro-lifers telling me it’s immoral. We’ll start with the terminally ill.
Has anybody even bothered to think about my question on the wasted embryos from fertility clinics?
I thought their answer to that was encouraging Christian women to carry the embryos to term… e.g. “Snowflakes”
http://tinyurl.com/nkfrx
…the couple had no plans for more when they heard about Snowflakes – a scheme that helps women to become pregnant with embryos left over at fertility clinics.