You Gringos can’t tell us what to do!
Mexico warned Tuesday it would file lawsuits in U.S. courts if National Guard troops detain migrants on the border…
“If there is a real wave of rights abuses, if we see the National Guard starting to directly participate in detaining people … we would immediately start filing lawsuits through our consulates,” Foreign Secretary Luis Ernesto Derbez said in an interview with a Mexico City radio station.
In Ciudad Juarez, Mexico, Julieta Nunez Gonzalez, the local representative of Mexico’s National Immigration Institute, said Tuesday she will ask the Mexican government to send a protection force, Grupo Beta, to remote sections of the border.
Sending the National Guard “will not stop the flow of migrants. To the contrary, it will probably go up,” as people try to get into the U.S. with hopes of applying for a possible amnesty program, Nunez said.
The most likely scenario I’ve seen so far opines that Bush will leave the National Guard on the border for two weeks — declare “MISSION ACCOMPLISHED” — and return to trying to pass an amnesty program.
the guard is going to the border. It’s what the National Guard is for…..protecting the U.S. internally. That means the border as well as saving people who keep building their homes in flood plains.
He says a year, and I believe him, unless a Guardsman shots an illegal, then they will be snatched out of there so fast your head will spin.
It galls me no end to hear the Mexican goverment being so self-rightious about *human rights abuses* when we stop their people (that they do everything to encourage to go north but buy the bus ticket) from coming across the border. This from a goverment that wouldn’t know a Human right if it crapped on their head. If only the Mexican goverment spent half as much time and money creating jobs for it’s people, instead of pushing them across the border, we wouldn’t be having this problem.
Let them sue, then we settle, you get 11 million of your people back and 100 million dollars, now shut up.
What a ridiculous notion, a country is not allowed to defend itself against foreign invaders? Mexicans have a right to cross the border unmolested? What’s the difference to an infiltrator/spy/terrorist/migrant if they are caught by “border police” or the military.
At this point, I can’t see how those people crossing the border can be seen as individual actors, each independently deciding to break the law. If the Mexican government is going to engaged in affirmative acts, they must be considered as agents of the Mexican government, or an invasion force. Posse Comitatus doesn’t apply to defending the homeland from invaders.
1. I hate that this has been made a right-wing issue for the November election.
2. What will the Guard do? What if someone puts up a fight? What if the Mexican forces put up a fight?? Will the Guard shoot Mexicans? They aren’t trained for this kind of work. They will mess it up.
3. This really is illuminating how much we’ve lost control of the border with Mexico.
4. This is all fifty years too late. By that I mean that so many Mexicans have settled and raised pro-illegal offspring -who now vote– that it will be politically impossible at worst and divisive at best to try to control the influx.
5. Mexico’s problem is too many babies. Page the Vatican. Tell the celibate gentlemen there that only cancer keeps trying to grow forever. If they want more Catholics, tell them to build some land in the Pacific ocean for them to live on. Genesis is not a blueprint for government. The CC teaches the world will end in fire; I don’t think they are very cognizant of ecological limits, since the think it will end soon anyway.
6. The inflow of illegals, even tho their determination is admirable, has wrecked our pay scales and demolished the ability of the lower middle class and the poor to find a job paying more than minimum wage.
7. We’ve a large population of people living in the U.S. that consider themselves Mexicans reoccupying their stolen land. Is there any country on Earth that has a neighboring country trying to occupy it by stealth?
8.Yes. they do hellish work. But the work wouldn’t BE hellish if the employers couldn’t get away with hiring illegals, who have to put up with crappy working conditions or be sent back home. They create the bad jobs they then take, in a sense.
9. This is going to be interesting. Unfortunately, as in so many other issues, Bush will screw it all up, and no one will be able to touch on the problem without memories of the coming fiasco being raised. Oy.
Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
Ah, the good ole days…
Why does the Mexican Governement want their people to flee their country to come to the US? What would they do if a similar number of Americans tried to cross into mexico illegally?
I’ve heard NRA type Republicans more than once say (with regard to gun control laws) that there are laws on the books that need to be enforced before they make blanket laws to outlaw gun ownership (law abiding gun ownership)…truth is, I more or less agree with the spirit of that comment…right now we keep hearing that we are a nation of law abiding citizens and all of that and that we must crack down on ILLEGAL immigration…I agree…but, why the hell is it unclear (of course it is not, this is the rhetorical point) that the demand for crossing the border comes from the ability to get work, etc. here…if we were to just enforce the laws on the companies that make it so worth coming here…crack down and close a business or two…throw some heavy fines around…STOP the illegal hiring by AMERICAN companies…we could pretty handily remove the impetus for people to come here in such numbers…or, if we like having the people here to work then let’s all shut the hell up and admit that we LIKE having these people come here to do this kind of work…I’m so damned tired of hearing that the problem is fixed with the guard or a biometric card or whatever…bull…the problem is lack of enforcement where it would do some good…if we really think it is good that it would be doing…I suppose I mean where it would be effective.
I think the one thing we might all agree on is that Ms. Gonzalez is absolutely right, this will likely only increase the flow of migrants trying to get across the border.
Dare I quote Star Wars? “The more you tighten your grip, the more star systems will slip thru your fingers.” Or something like that. (geeks forgive me – it’s been over a half-dozen years since I’ve watched those) I think that applies perfectly here. The more we tighten down the border, the more people will get thru.
Since I live in Canada, and see Lord Sidius may set up stormtroopers on the Canadian border too, I have one question …. does this make us East Berlin or West Berlin? I think Bush should be assasinated (or at least removed from office) before it’s too late for the U.S.
#2. What a ridiculous notion, a country is not allowed to defend itself against foreign invaders? Mexicans have a right to cross the border unmolested? What’s the difference to an infiltrator/spy/terrorist/migrant if they are caught by “border police” or the military.
Foreign Invaders …. from Canada? The problem is, the U.S. gov’t gets everybody in the country so paranoid over ficticious scenarios that any idea to “defend” the country seems like a great idea. I think every citizen in the U.S. should wake up and start defending themselves from the real threat – the Government.
Gee Bill, if I remember my history correctly (and I do since I lived during that time) NO ONE WAS TRYING TO ESCAPE INTO EAST GERMANY. THE EAST GERMANS PUT UP A WALL TO KEEP PEOPLE FROM LEAVING. The West Germans and the US and many others worked hard to make life better for those people. Finally, it happened and the wall came down. The West Germans didn’t guard the wall to keep people out.
The Mexican government is so corrupt that it makes our government look like utopian. Mexico has wonderful coastlines, and natual resources and people. They don’t have a legal infrastructre to support ownership and businesses in a stable society. until that happens the majority of Mexicans are doomed to the corruption of the few.
I would like to say as a Canadian that the comment from the other Canadian (Bill) just proves that my country has its own idiots as well. Bill, you are an idiot! Americans have every right to defend their borders. The opinion of a bleeding-heart leftist freak (you) is meaningless.
Both the DEMS and GOP want their border secured. As they should. As we should. That doesn’t mean they have a problem with immigration, it just means that they want it managed and controlled.
Why isn’t the left screaming about the poverty in Mexico and the Mexican’s government inability to fix it?
#4: It was a poem.
We never were an open-borders country. U.S. historical treatment of immigrants was nasty, racist, by the numbers, and for the enrichment of the economy. People came in on a quota from each country. Job skills were considered. We were much more xenophobic in past generations; people trying to sneak in existed, but not in million-man waves. A huge influx of, say, undocumented Irish from Canada would have driven the editors of the Chicago Tribune insane, and a racist backlash would have gone badly for the illegals. There weren’t that many illegals. And it was hard before interstate highways to actually move across the southern wastelands into the U.S. There weren’t any towns for hundreds of miles. Now, you drive, or are driven.
As I’ve said, this issue is fifty years too late for remediation. Too many pro-illegal voters have been raised in the U.S. by illegal alien parents, and will swing elections hard against anyone who really tries to shut the border. Si se puede.
Pity Bush will make an absolute disaster out of this cheap election year ploy. Rove desperately does not want to lose the Congress to the Democrats –he’ll see prison if so– and will pull any cheap trick to keep the status quo. And that means stirring up the racists with stories of massive waves of illegals that we’ve just, all of a sudden, noticed.
Living in San Diego, I have seen a lot of this in the news. Including a rally just before the National Boycot Day. A woman was speaking about how this is all racism and asked why we are not putting up a wall and defending the Canadian border. What a bunch of crap! It’s not about racism…it’s about the economic impact that so many illegal aliens have on our country. Because they come here and get paid under the table by greedy, self centered business owners, they do not pay taxes, social security or medicare. So when they have to go to the hospital who pays? Those who paid taxes, that’s who. If they want to come here legally, I am perfectly willing to let them do so. I love diversity and thouroughly enjoy learning about different cultures. But not at the expense of our economy. I am married to a foreign national but she came legally and has a green card. She pays taxes, unemployment, medicare, etc. She is doing her part by paying into the system. I find it particularly apalling when a pregnant woman makes it here just to have the baby and now the baby is automatically declared an American citizen. Now we have two people to take care of.
I think Fox is nuts and agree with one of the earlier respondents here about how Mexico. They need to root out the corruption in their government, start investing more in technology and put their people to work. In today’s modern age I can’t believe that a country so close to us is still basically a third world country. That’s why we’re not building a wall to the north…although there’s a huge drug smuggling problem up there so maybe we should but that’s another topic.
We need the military, national guard, and border patrol all to protect our borders. Maybe we’ll catch some whacko terrorists while we’re at it as well!
10: you’re right. Overpopulation is a major factor, probably THE major factor, but it is true that Mexico has a five hundred year problem of almost medaeval government, created by the rich for the rich.
It’s a disaster zone, and they are using the U.S. and Canada as a safety valve for both overwhelming numbers of new babies and an economy that somehow must support them.
Aside from bad government, it is fundamentally true that countries like Mexico and Egypt are in economic thrall to the necessity to do something with a population that is doubling every thirty years. That means a country full of teenagers. Unemployed teenagers. Angry, ARMED teenagers, eventually. And more every generation. If the growth isn’t brought under control, Malthus sadly will have his say. The first symptom of Malthusian distress is conflict with less populated neighbors who object to hosting the refugees. Then the party starts.
The real blowups will be 30-50-70 years in the future, when Mexico has a chunk of a billion people in a place that was polluted and strained to begin with. Say goodbye, forests. Let’s not forget the effect of global temperature rise, which will expand the deserts and cut into the food and water.
#11. Yes … it’s a great idea to defend borders against NOBODY. And us “idiots” in Canada assume the people like you are ex-civil servants, ex-politicians, or live in Alberta …. and you can’t really be blamed for thinking the way you do. Do you sleep with your toy lightsaber?
#10. Dude … did you see the word Canada in the first sentence? It’s the big country to the north of you – not the one to the south. While you were studying your history, you should have picked up a few geography books as well.
Let them sue, then we settle, you get 11 million of your people back and 100 million dollars, now shut up.
So well put Joshua, the best idea I’ve heard yet.
I agree with Joshua except the last part. Let them sue, it’s a national security issue — so they can’t. I say we start playing baseball which is a game they understand. We trade some of our trash for some of their Mexicans. If we have too we include a person(s) to be named later.
Troops sent to Iraq were not trained in how to speak Arabic – even though they have to communicate with Iraqis.
Will the trrops sent to our border with Mexico be trained in how to speak Spanish?? No, probably not…
>Will the Guard shoot Mexicans? They aren’t trained for this kind of work
Isn’t that exactly what the NATIONAL GUARD is trained for?
Bill….*dude*…..I think your a damn wack job. I’m about to say something that I’ve never written in a blog, not even my own. You can hate Bush all you want, your not alone in that…..but to call for his assination is beyond the pale…..your a sick *fucker*.
#22. You should keep on “not saying” things in blogs until you understand the language, or at least get past grade 7.
I said “I think Bush ….” is waaayyyyy different than “to call for his assination”. See, what I have is a personal opinion, what you have is your own demented sub-mind showing it’s true self. Personal opinions are just that – opinions. Now, when you learn how to speak we can continue, until then I’ll be ignoring your word vomit.
Why has illegal immigrants become such a hot topic lately? They’ve been crossing over for decades. In magic, the magician, when he has to pull a fast one, must create a diversion so know one is looking at what he truly wants to do. It’s the oldest trick in the book, but there’s a sucker born every minute.
“In today’s modern age I can’t believe that a country so close to us is still basically a third world country.”
You can look at the Americas and see a clear distinction between the level of progress and civil order of the countries originally colonized by Spain and those controlled by the English, French and Dutch.
Bill…saying “I think Bush should be assassinated”, which is what you said, is just the same as “calling for his assassination.” at least to anyone who understands English. You should be ashamed of yourself. I’m a Canadian too, and I think you are an irresponsbile fool.
#21: “gimme a break. there’s isn’t a single word that needs to be said. grab them, put them on a bus back to mexico. simple.”
I was thinking more along the lines of a few simple phases like:
“Stop, or I’ll shoot”, or “Keep your hands where I can see them” – but I guess we can just grab them and frog-march them back across the border – without having to say a word which they can understand…
Lets de-humanize the illegals, and then act surprised when some of our troops are discovered treating them like sub-human scum.
Then we can claim, once again, that there is no “pattern of abuse” – and that it was just the unfortunate actions of a few, lower-level “rogue actors” and not official policy.
Bill, why aren’t moron wack jobs like you in an outrage over a country like Mexico with a government like fox’s and the people who suffer under it and come here to get away?
Why aren’t you down there espousing your crap instead of up here chewing us? I live in the north of the U.S. and we are flooded full of Mexicans. The town I am from in Iowa is over 50% Mexican now. How long before they keep moving north?
Shouldn’t we be looking for a way to fix their country which never really has had any form of effective government? They country is ruled by crime, the government is a nothing but a paper machete puppet.
Wack jobs (liberal and conservative) like you do and say nothing constructive. You bitch at us and blame us yet you do not live with the problem and refuse to address it constructively (because you’re a wack job and that’s what whack jobs do).
If you fix Mexico then you fix the problem and they will not want to come here.
Liberals and Conservatives seem to habitually miss this point and that is surprising since liberals seem to feel they are so much more sensitive and care more (yet they – and everyone from both political points – missed the bus on this one.)
The borders need to be controlled and secured for all our safety.
The Mexicans must be stopped because of the enormous strain on the country.
But you can’t stop it until you address the source – an incredibly corrupt and inept Mexican government.
Mexico has people and resources but lacks the will and ability to tap them largely because of a incredibly corrupt Mexican government ruled by crime.
Ask yourself why is fox pushing his people over here and not fixing the problem there?
Many people love Bush and many people hate Bush but instead of dealing intelligently with a serious problem you call for the murder of a U.S. President.
Bill you are the ideal poster child for a prophylactics.
#28: “so, are you in favor of illegal immigration? if not, how would *you* stop people from breaking into our country?”
If I wasn’t against illegal immigration, I wouldn’t call them “illegals”. I’d use some quaint term like “migrants” or “immigrants”.
I just don’t see how your plan from #21:
there’s isn’t a single word that needs to be said. grab them, put them on a bus back to mexico.
would work, in the real world. Will all of the illegals just happen to be crossing the border where busses are standing-by – so no words will need to be spoken?
You think treating people like cattle is not “de-humanizing”.
They are entering the country illegally, but that is the only crime they have committed. They are not murderers, rapists, theives, or thugs…
Why treat individuals like crap, when the problem is not the individual illegal – it is the cumulative effect of 12-million of them.
Why re-direct our anger regarding the previous 12-million illegals against illegal #12-million-and-1?
I know this isn’t the first time I’ve said it, but darn it is worth repeating.
You catch them crossing the border, arrest them. You don’t send them back or release them on bond. Make a tent camp, similar to what the Sheriff in Phoenix set up. Sure, allow them plenty of water. If they will willingly return home, let them. If they are caught again, give them six months in the camp. Before releasing them back into Mexico..
When they are caught, confiscate whatever belongings they have to help defray their incarceration and deportation costs.
While they are incarcerated, put them to work building a fence along the border. They came here to work, let them.
Finally, hit the employers hard. Fine them if they knowingly hire someone without valid authority to work in the US. Make them pay for the deportation of the illegals. The government MUST provide a method of verifying the work permits and green cards first though.
Mr. Fusion……I understand that they want to give the guest workers and green card holders those super duper nifty ones with like your DNA or something. They should be fraud proof.