Davis: Creationism is critical thinking as far as he is concerned
KRT Wire | 05/13/2006 | Creationist discusses science with high school students — Invited in by the Superintendent of schools, Randy Davis. No hidden agenda I’m so sure.
Training kids to question their public school science teachers is part of a broader goal of Answers in Genesis. The organization says its mission is to equip Christians with the tools to explain and defend an interpretation of the origin of the universe based on the inerrancy of the Bible. The nonprofit, which had revenues of $10.5 million in 2004 according to tax records, is currently building a $25 million Creation Museum in Kentucky near the Cincinnati airport, which is scheduled to open next spring.
Ken Ham, the founder of Answers in Genesis, said in talks he gives to middle and high school students, he “sets out to teach them how to think critically about the origins issue and the limitations of science.” He tells them that by explaining the universe as a process of nature, public schools have made “an arbitrary decision” to consciously eliminate the possibility of supernatural intervention.
“Students need to know there’s a significant minority of scientists who reject Darwinian evolution and accept creationist origins,” said Looy.
Potosi is a Christian town, made up largely of Pentecostals and Baptist. Billboards heralding the Ten Commandments and others with messages like, “God is pro-life, so are we . . .” greet visitors on their way into town.
“Ever since they removed God from the schools they’ve gone downhill,” said Debra Boyer, 46, as she had breakfast at Mama T’s Country Cafe. Her son is in 6th grade and she said she wished he could learn more about his Pentecostal faith in the classroom. “God’s needed in the schools . . . it gives kids something to think about.”
related link:
School District Homepage
School stats
OK. It’s fine to make fun of young earth creationists (I do)… but you’ve got links for horoscopes on the same page? Are we wearing any clothes Mr. Emperor?
“God’s needed in the schools . . . it gives kids something to think about.” Never mind the subjects that might actually get them someplace in life.
“God’s needed in the schools . . . it gives kids something to think about.”
How about God’s needed at home . . . there’s enough to think about at school.
Schools have gone down hill, but it is not a cause and effect with God. It has nothing to do with the presense or not of teaching God in schools.
Critical thinking is a Mom and apple pie argument. No one wants children to NOT learn how to think critically. The irony is that this guy doesn’t really want people to think critically in general; he wants children to think critically about a specific scientific theory that he BELIEVES is untrue. If one were to think critically about it they would see that what this guy is trying to do is a sham with regards to critical thinking.
God is pro-life, so are we
The rest of that sign says
God is pro-life, so are we. So don’t any of you do anything we don’t like or we’ll execute your ass…. In God’s mercy of course.
Then send you’re little Jesus minion to a private christian school. There used to be a little thing called seperation of church and state….
The horoscope is a marketing test I am conducting…it will be removed when the test is over
In retrospect I think we need to encourage fundamentalists to teach the way they like. Substitute “God” for science and then educate their youth to think that the light bulb is a miracle.
That way we’ll have plenty of uneducated stupid people for my better educated and prepared son to go up against for that high-tech job.
I think the effect would not be dissimilar from the one described in “Brave New World”, but instead of inducing brute stupidity at birth, we let a Pat Robertson do it!
Potosi sounds like a charming town. My slogan would be…
“If you’re not Christian, just leave quietly and no one gets hurt.”
If you are so sure of evolution, then why not give it a fair battle against the proof of creation? I’m not asking for the Bible to be taught as fact in schools, but why not give it and the supporting scientific evidence a fair shake? Why are evolutionists so afraid?
I’m new to posting, although I’ve been here lurking for quite awhile. As a Christian, college grad (Liberal Arts, no less!), and proud employee of a University, I have yet to understand the utter hate and fear by those afraid of a fair showing of both side on this issue. I welcome a debate between Dr. Ken Ham (I notice the article omits he has a earned Ph.D) and anyone on this planet. I’ve heard this guy talk, he’s swift, smart and able to take on anyone one-to-one.
So why not?
“If you are so sure of evolution, then why not give it a fair battle against the proof of creation?”
That’s the most asinine thing anyone has ever written. I’m not kidding. The answer is simple: Creationism is not science. It’s a belief system based on faith, i.e., evidence for things not seen.
And as I’ve said before, why do you guys only pick on evolution. Since creationism can be reduced to: God did it. Why not have that as an alternative answer to all questions? How does gravity work? God did it. Why do prices rise and fall? God did it. How does are political system work? God does it.
#11 – Fine Tim prove Creationism in a laboratory environment. I’ll do the same for evolution.
In fact just provide a method for that proof. Just a document for how you would prove it & I’ll match you.
I dare you.
You say it’s not science, but how is evolution more science than creation? The scientific method is about proving or disproving something. It’s a logical fallacy to assume that because something is based on a supreme being that it cannot be true. You’d have to disprove the supreme being first, something you cannot do.
So, to be 100% fair, you would have to lay all the cards on the table and go from that. I’ll be the first to grant that I can’t 100% prove creation even more than you can evolution. I’ve seen “proof” of both, and in the end, I did have to choose which way to believe. Justifing your beliefs as science as evolutionists are fond of doing doesn’t make them any less of a belief. The Bible also says that the earth is round, so should we discard that?
Should we discard the belief in gravity since the Bible speaks of it? Should we discard the belief that murder is wrong because the Bible speaks of it? Using this line of logic is asinine and wrongheaded.
Sure, I believe some things because the Bible told me. Some things can’t be proven beyond a reasonable doubt because no one was there to witness it. I believe the Bible to be a true witness, but even if you do not, the faith required to say evolution is 100% true without a tried and true experimental proof goes beyond my faith, for sure.
Gravity? What does the Bible say about gravity???
Gravity – in laymens terms is that which causes things to fall down versus failing up or staying in place. The Bible talks about things falling to earth in many places and that if you drop things, they will fall. It takes it as fact, as I do. I personally feel no need to explain how it works, although some of the proofs how were quite interesting in college Physics. (I won’t tell a lie, though, I was glad to be back in a computer class when it was over!)
So, the Bible doesn’t so much as say “Gravity – it works!”, as much as it indirectly references it as fact. The same as you or I do in life. No normal person assumes jumping without some type of mechanical help from a tall building is a smart thing to do.
My point is this – the Bible assumes many things, such as the need to eat or drink. Just because it exists in the Bible doesn’t disqualify it from reality. That or there weren’t Caesers in Rome.
BTW – good TWiT this week, Mr. Dvorak. Although we may disagree on some things, I do find you one of the most interesting people to listen to or read!
Tim,
In one breath you ask how is evolution science and in the next you claim creationism is science. Please show me how creationism IS science and how it agrees with scientific method. Please point me to ANY peer reviewed respected papers on creationsim in any scientific journals. (there aren’t any) To say things are too complex and therefore some creator must have done it isn’t science. It falls into the catagory of belief. If you invoke the “idea” that its a vast conspiracy and creationists aren’t allowed to publish in peer reviewed journals then please show proof. (answer there isn’t any, they have never submitted any papers to be reviewed, becase they can’t. Creationism ISN”T science.)
I have nothing against people discussing and debating origins of the universe in a philosophy class and having creatinism or ID in that class. That is a fitting and proper place.
But trying to sneak the elephant under the tent in the guise of “Scientific Discourse” is disingeniuse.
I love how people frame it as two sides. There IS NOT TWO SIDES. There is a scientific theory, one is not.
I have nothing against people who believe in creationism (though intelligent design is another story, being a transparent attempt to confuse people into thinking its a scientific theory), and teaching it in a religious studies, or philosophy class is fine. Teaching it as science is not.
Saying “oh well things are so complicated it must be made by a god, lets stop researching this and go take a nap”; that’s not a scientific theory.
But then, many many people who understand evolution are also quite religious and realize they can accept science and not be in conflict with their faith.
I’m still looking for a good explanation of how Noah delivered kangaroos to Australia (and a million similar examples) in an ark with no motive power or directional control. Or conversely, how did such species unique to certain continents make the trek from the region around Ararat to their distant homes, without leaving a fossil record behind. I guess I’d really like to see an archaeologist uncover a kangaroo or penguin fossil in the region near where Noah’s ark came to rest. That would really help to cinch up the case for Creationism.
Wasn’t it these anomalies of isolated species that changed Darwin’s thinking in the first place?
Did anybody RTFA? This place is getting like slashdot. Read a headline and then knee jerk your response for or against the overarching theme.
“Training kids to question their public school science teachers is part of a broader goal of Answers in Genesis.” omgz!!1! telling kids they should question their teachers, what a crime! The “scientists” in these comments seem to think that the creationists are the one who blindly believe some theory of universal origin, but they are rather in a lather about someone telling kids to question what they are being taught. It looks like the evolutionists can’t handle someone questioning their faith, er, science. So what if kids question their teachers. Isn’t it a sign of some intelligence to question what we are being told. If we want kids to sit and just bob their heads in agreement with the teacher regardless of what the teacher says, we are not promoting science.
““Students need to know there’s a significant minority of scientists who reject Darwinian evolution and accept creationist origins,” said Looy.” Or is that knowldge too dangerous?
To those demanding some peer reviewed scientific journal article about creation or ID:
http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/index.php?command=view&id=2640
That’s why God invented Google, so you could find these things if interested.
#16 Tim,
I know you’re not a man of science but, I hope you can understand that the Bible’s explanation or mentions of falling objects is very different than the recognition of gravitational forces or the interaction of said forces between two bodies.
Much the same way a person loking at a bird fying and saying “certain animals can fly” explains aeronautical engineering.
The truth about creationism is discerned through faith. It is not for lack of proof that you do not believe, it is for lack of faith. Man, how can you bite into an apple and not discern the obvious? Somebody gave you a tongue and a digestive system that reacts properly to the taste and nourishment that an apple brings. Kids understand these things before pride and prejudice takes over and twist their minds into doing mental acrobatics to prove that there is no God.
Tim, you say:
“Dr. Ken Ham (I notice the article omits he has a earned Ph.D) ”
Well that’s because he didn’t earn it:
“Jerry Falwell, a Baptist preacher and chancellor of the Baptist Liberty University, granted Ham an honorary doctorate of literature.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Ham#Biography
You don’t “earn” honorary degrees. You can get one if you have a grade 2 education. That’s why they are called honorary. Heck even a PHD you earned from that diploma mill wouldn’t count as far as I’m concerned.
Here’s another good tidbit about ‘Dr.’ Ham-it-up:
“Furthermore, Ham believes that evolutionary theory caused the rise of humanism, racism, eugenics, euthanasia, pornography, homosexuality, family breakup, abortion, and more.”
hawks5999: The site you reference is lying. None of those articles exist in any peer reviewed journal . I have access to jstor etc.
Creationists and evolutionists both eat, crap and procreate just the same. The only difference is two different ideas about how we got here. It really doesn’t matter. Evolution sucks because people say, well, millions of years of evolution have produced us to seek out certain traits in a mate so I will continue to think like an ape and seek a mate that has this and that. We use evolution to justify our animal behaviours and it keeps us tied to acting like brutes. Baloney! Evolution is a crock of shit. If we evolved from apes then RECREATE evolution by evolving current chimpanzees into intelligent creatures. Science is well known for producing same results which is the hallmark of their field. Why haven’t any scientist been able to use their evolution THEORY to produce talking apes. Hogwash. Evolution is bullshit, that is why.
Ten Punishments
(compiled by the late Jyoti Shankar)
Let’s post these in the schoolroom! Thou shalt not kill?
1. Exodus 22:20: He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the Lord only, he shall be utterly destroyed.
2. Leviticus 24:16: And he that blasphemeth the name of the Lord, he shall surely be put to death.
3. Exodus 31:15: Whosoever doeth any work in the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
4. Exodus 21:15: He that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death.
5. Exodus 21:17: He that curseth his father or his mother, shall surely be put to death.
6. Exodus 22:19: Whosoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death.
7. Leviticus 20:13: If a man lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death.
8. Leviticus 20:10: And the man that committeth adultery with another man’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall be put to death.
9. Mark 16:16: He that believeth not, shall be damned.
10. Malachi 2:1-4: And now, O ye priests, this commandment is for you. If you will not hear, and if ye will not lay it to heart to give glory to my name, … behold, I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces.
DANCE MONKEYS DANCE http://anthropology.net/user/kambiz_kamrani/blog/2006/04/24/the_monkeys
David, evoloution of a chimp is a process that would take 100’s of thousands of our lifetimes. How do you propose to do the experient?
david,
Wow, you really are a ignorant fool aren’t you? There are ways of proving a theory without having to sample every possible scenario. We can prove that all objects will fall at the same speed without having to test every object in the universe. Likewise, we can establish the tenaments of evolution without having to experimentally evolve every type of species. But you don’t really want to hear that do you? You don’t want to really understand how science works. You would rather hide away behind your ignorant beliefs. I could probably give you a hundred areas to investigate that would substantiate evolution but you really do not want to hear that. This is not about what is provable or what is scientific or how the universe really works. This is about rocking the very foundation of your little world which is incapable of handling the fact that homo sapiens have evolved from lesser forms.
Well, I definitely support your right to believe whatever you wish however ridiculous. All I ask is that you A: do not try to assume that I will accept your belief as fact and B: do not try to pass off your delusion as science.
You people sure are afraid of something you do not seem to believe exists?
#31, I think their argument goes something like this… If evolution can’t be re-created (no pun intended) in the laboratory, the theory is forever discredited and we can get back to being the Christian nation that God intended us to be. Then, after we allow children to chant their carefully constructed indoctrinating prayers in the public classrooms, future generations will be more easily saved from the ravages of atheism, internet porn, hellfire and brimstone.
I’m amazed how far America has sunk since we fell prey to the notion of evolution. Monkeys are so adorable.