HOT POST — MOVED TO TOP
A 10-year-old Coral Springs girl won’t be allowed to sing a controversial President Bush-bashing ballad at her school talent show after her principal deemed it inappropriate and too political.
The song, “Dear Mr. President,” performed and co-written by the singer Pink, criticizes the president for the war in Iraq and other policies, including his stance on gay rights.
Nancy Shoul said her daughter Molly should be lauded for choosing lyrics that are full of substance rather than pop-music fluff. She said the principal’s ban sends a bad message and violates her daughter’s right to free speech.
“If this was a student singing a pro-administration song, no one would quibble with it,” Shoul said.
“This is a fifth-grade student that wants to perform a song filled with lyrics about drug use, war, abortion, gay rights and profanity,” district spokeswoman Nadine Drew said. “This is an elementary school that includes kindergartners and pre-K students.”
The song does not mention abortion. The only profanity mentioned is hell. The drug use refers to Bush’s alleged conduct before he became president.
Why expose kids to the process of forming opinions that deviate from the “official” line? Why let kids examine the content of conformity?
I know I’m on to something when people start ‘ganging up’ on me!
either that or it’s just not your day Milo 🙂
MisterRustic >> No songs should be political.
Who made THAT rule? I like bubble gum pop music as much as the next guy but I believe that artists play an important societal role as observers of the human experience.
>> Who gives a crap about their politics? Why should anyone care what Pink thinks about anything (or Neil Young, or Bono, or Lennon or
… or the Dixie Chicks?
A whole lot of conservatives cared what THEY thought! Remember that hysteria? Whew! That was embarrassing for the Republicans.
so much for the “land of the free”.
#42, OK – privledeges are rights put into practice. I’ll amend myself to minors do not have the full set of rights that adults do and shouldn’t…
Comment by MisterRustic — 5/9/2006 @ 2:30 am
#44, Or the Dixie Chicks. The only thing they’re qualified to talk about is how to be stupid.
Comment by MisterRustic — 5/9/2006 @ 4:33 am
A privilege is NOT a right, let alone a right put into practice. So lets go to comment #44. I guess you are trying to give stupid lessons by example now.
So now she’s in every paper in the country for having her dissent silenced? Oooh, chill wind a-blowin’.
BTW: speaking of definitions: you’re fissioning not fusing.
Please, don’t tell my wife. I’m trying to convince her I’m sublimating. For you, however, I’ll change my name to Herbert.
9- “It no better then teachers that make their students sit through anti Bush videos or forcing them to write anti Bush letters or not allowing students to display the American flag.”
Agreed. My little brother (he’s in 6th grade) came home from school in like late October, in the middle of the governor campains here in jeresy with a project from school to write a letter to a congressman about “How we should be doing more to stop world hunger and not wasting resorces on war.” As a known Republican (I am a member of a republican club at my school), needless to say, I flipped out. I called the school and said that there is no reason that the teachers should be allowed to brainwash these kids into believing what the teachers want them to, they should be allowed to make up their own mind on political issues, and even if it is an opinion that you disagree with, the shouldn’t be forced to change it. The school refused to remove the project, and I was pissed. Personaly, I dont think that any child should have anything to do with politics until they are about 14, that seams like an age where they can make their own oppinion.
34- “The public schools here in Northeast ohio would love this girl. At my high school, i was forced by the principal to remove the Bush Cheney Bumper sticker from MY car, but when John Edwards visited the school for a pre election campaign speech in 04, teachers forced us to hold up Kerry Edwards signs and banners, wether we agreed or not. This dosen’t seem at all extreme to me. I say lets keep all political bias out of schools.”
Dude, that realy sucks, I would have said something to a congressman or something, maybe call the republican national commitie, I’m sure they would have something to say about that.
47 – “where do people get nutty ideas like this??”
Dyslexia, ass backwards I guess.
Aren’t these the same people who say you must go to sensitivity training when someone says something they don’t like?
So Joe thinks we should spend more on war and less on world hunger! Good to see his post begin with honesty. After that however he lies through his teeth.
I’m glad I moved before my daughter had to start school in Broward County…
Milo-
Thats not what I ment, what I ment was that the teachers have no right to tell the kids that the war is a waste of money, some people do still support it (not saying that I do, I support the war, I am actualy not sure where I stand on it at the moment) plus the fact that the US puts billions into Hunger each year (a fact that I made abudantly clear when I was talking to the school). In fact, last time I checked the United States contributes more in humanitaryian aid each year then any other nation on earth. I belive that we do what we can, and there is no need to have a bunch of hippies telling our kids about how evil the government is. Personaly, I think that teachers like this is one of the reasons that Americas education system is falling behind, the teachers are to concerned with achiving their own political ends that they don’t bother to teach the kids what needs to be tought!
Joe continues in the vein of the latter part of his previous post.
This poor kid is already brainwashed. When I was 10, the most controversial thing in my life was whether to pretend to be Babe Ruth or Lou Gehrig when I stepped up to the chair playing wiffle ball.
I strongly believe that Bush and his cronies are the true axis of evil, but a ten year old girl, probably didn’t come up with that on her own.
She shouldn’t be censored, but her head shouldn’t be filled with crap like that either. Let her be a kid, mom and dad.
#35: I think it’s pretty clear that Fraser doesn’t apply here. This isn’t a passive protest, but rather an active protest for which the school can choose (or not choose) to provide a forum. Which isn’t to say I agree with the decision; it’s not the government’s job to protect elementary children from the truth or even lies. Perhaps the language could be moderated and another child with a pro-administration stance/song scheduled?
You also have to wonder whether this would be during school hours, or a parent-supervised event for in loco parentis rules…
#50: You understand a critical part of learning how to debate is to be able to take either side of an issue, right? For those who agree that the war is “bad”, it provides a forum for their views. For those who don’t think the war is “bad” (for lack of a better term; wrong might be a better choice), it provides the opportunity to become better arguers for their side. After all, it’s much easier to counter the arguments of anti-war protesters when you, you know, know what those arguments are.
Obviously, the assignment should’ve been followed with a pro-administration argument. Perhaps a social values of some kind, though I imagine most of the issues (gay marriage, abortion) would be off the table. I also rather doubt it *was* followed… the teacher may well be biased. But you don’t necessarily have to be up in arms that the teacher was making a better debator out of your brother!
“Personaly, I dont think that any child should have anything to do with politics until they are about 14, that seams like an age where they can make their own oppinion.”
Wow. Guess you either don’t know any 14 year olds, or you have a really wierd perception of kids.
I agree the phrasing of the assignment was poor (if that was the exact phrasing). A better one would have been “Compare the reasons for spending money on war verses elimitating domestic poverty and hunger”
That way it is a comparison, without any political agenda, just with a modern political example.
Get a grip. Public schools aren’t intended to be a soap box to express political beliefs. It’s not a free speech issue. She can go across the street and hold up a sign.
“#29 – I suppose if you’re over 30 and have worked for a living and therefore have some real life experience you could write a political song, but you still shouldn’t. No one should want to listen to them. Music is supposed to be an escape.
Comment by MisterRustic — 5/8/2006 @ 3:13 pm”
If you’re over 30 and work, and therefore have real life experience?? It’s possible that you lived on your own in a cave until you turned 30, but it is totally moronic to make such an ignorant generalisation!
It’s a good thing this girl isn’t trying to preach the gospel, or you guys would really be going batshit: “She’s forcing her religion down those innocent kids’ throats!”
It’s funny, but you can suppress the book that has arguably had the biggest influence on western civilization and there won’t be a peep. But when your pet philosophy is checked at the door of a grade school talent show, it’s time to break out the free speech trumpets.
~yawn~
>teach children that censorship is “cool” or “OK”?
Are you saying that children shouldn’t be punished for crude language? The rest of your post suggests the opposite, in which case you are saying that censorhsip is OK.
#50: I agree on both your examples. Kids should not be forced into supporting a particular political view, such as by writing letters to congresspeople or holding up signs for people they don’t support. It should be as in #57, where both sides the issue is debated by the class.
#61: Bull. There’s a difference between what students do and what school administrators do. People acting on behalf of the school can’t promote religion because the school has to be neutral and cater to people of all religions, including none. Students are free to express their religion because it’s clear it’s coming from themselves as individuals. I wanted to dig up the article about the “evil, anti-religion” ACLU defending the student who was passing out religious material in school but on her own time, but couldn’t find it. I did find this article about all the times they defended freedom of religion so I’ll just throw that out there to give it credibility.
Not trolling for his…just letting a good discussion run a little longer.
Sigh, its sad that our government schools do not teach what free speech is any more, the ignorance by many posters is to say the least disturbing.
First, this is a talent show, you have no right, either as a child or adult to say what ever you want at a talent show. If the child wants to stand outside the school with her liberal hippy parents and protest Bush, with a big sign that says “Bush Sucks”, thats fine as long as she or her parents are not violating any laws.
Second, children do have lesser rights than adults. If your child is under 16 and decides they do not want to go to school, what happens?
Also these are 10 year olds, it is not government schools place to dictate policy (wasn’t that the entire point of getting God out of school?), and must try to take a neutral stance on most issues. If My child had decided that they wanted to get up on stage and sing religious song about how God is great, or lead a prayer. The same guys that are for this girl to sing this song would be going ape s**t over something religious being said.
Finally remember these are children not adults, let them enjoy being children for now, especially since their time being kids is so short, both sides need to stop using them to push their own individual agenda.
# 50 & #58:
Being 14, I know. I was about to say the exact thing word for word, but you beat me to it, Joe! I like reading the newspaper columns by Mike Adams, Michele Malkin, and Ann Coulter, but anybody younger than me just repeats what they hear and makes fun of whoever is least popular. I’m sick of schools pushing their agenda, even in college classes where the students are legal adults. This is just a case of some little kid parroting Mommy & Daddy, and it’s being labled “childrens’ free speech rights.” Sick!
Yes, and there are those who like making noise and getting attention. They do it just because they have the right. I would say that such obnoxious expression has different names depending upon the age of the one doing it: 20 or older, it’s protesting; 10-20, being a smartass; under 10, a tantrum. There is such a thing as legitimate opinions, but I think protesting on behalf of endangered flies is over the limit.
P.S. If Bush used to do drugs, wouldn’t that make him a hero to the left?? Or, if it’s not okay for a President, then what about Clinton???
Sigh, its sad that our government schools do not teach what free speech is any more, the ignorance by many posters is to say the least disturbing.
Again, don’t confuse rights with privileges. Rights may only be denied by a Court if proper cause has been found on an individual basis. Privileges are regulated by the state and may be arbitrary or not, provided they do not interfere with a person’s rights. Try reading the Constitution or take a Civics class and learn how the American legal system is set up. I put your post in the same category as those you condemn.
Second, children do have lesser rights than adults. If your child is under 16 and decides they do not want to go to school, what happens?
Staying away from school is not a right, the same as being clothed in public, requiring a medical license to practice medicine, etc.. These are privileges that are governed by the state. If a child wants to stay home, then the parent or guardian must supply an alternate education. If the child wants to work then they must meet certain conditions. If the State has decided that everyone under the age of 16 must attend school, then they must, or face the alternative.
A child has every right under the Constitution as an adult. They are allowed to speak freely in public. They are entitled to an attorney if arrested. They may petition their representatives for redress. They are entitled to have reasonable bail.
If My child had decided that they wanted to get up on stage and sing religious song about how God is great, or lead a prayer.
Religion in schools is totally different. Political speech can not be compared to religious speech. Thus most school boards have banned ALL mention of religion or religious activities. Religious speech is usually looked upon as indoctrination to religious faith often contrary to the listener’s choice of religion. The listener’s own religious choice is threatened or injured when this is allowed on public property. Whereas political speech is looked upon as a citizen’s participation in public affairs. Of all speech, political is the one most likely to be upheld by the courts.
1. The President is the elected leader of the most important nation that ever existed. If you don’t respect the man, respect the office.
The incumbent has sullied the office. I serious believe almost every American respects the office. Only 30% think the guy in it is doing a good job
2. The war is not about oil. It’s about evil people. Not misguided people, not people made angry by the big, bad US. Evil.
http://www.mudvillegazette.com/archives/004507.html
It would be nice to find the video, make Pink watch it and then have her justify not wiping these people out.
TRUE !!! It is about an evil man lying to the American people getting us into a war for his own personal agenda. This would not happened before the invasion, regardless if Saddam was evil or not. Thousands have died so the guy in your point #1 could avenge his daddy. The war was to have been paid for out of the oil revenues. Because of the US high handed military actions, the approval of the US has gone from a big welcome, to more then 80% want us out.
3. Kids have both the privilege and the right to do what they’re told by adults.
A nonsensical statement. Totally in line with the rest of your trolling.
A child has every right under the Constitution as an adult.
So they have the right to bear arms?
umm….
she has the right to sing that song, was settled in a supreme court case quite a bit ago.
bush and the boyz, are criminals. the only sane thing is to protest and educate in any way possible.
good on ya kid, pay attention to the debt he’s saddling your generation with… and good luck.
Re: #14, and #20; GREAT…NOW BRING LAWYERS INTO THIS!!
In my junior high talent show, there were 3 girls who did some kind of dance to “Sargeant Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club” (in the ’70’s) and they sucked, had little talent, but I had a crush on one girl so I thought it was great. This little girl thought the Pink song was cool, and wanted to do something with it; the school disagreed. Who gives a shit?
How about the 3.93 million people murdered in the Congo since 1998, and are being exterminated every day? Where’s that song huh? Gay rights? Oil in Iraq and our efforts to cash in? Are they all as important as wholesale murder?
I dunno, but I don’t feel sorry for the girl or the school. It’s really not that important.
How did the worlds most powerful country with a supposedly democratic governance, end up being held to ransom by the Neo Conservative Right Wing Fundamentalist Christians.
How is it that policy and liberty are now dictated by them, and who gave them the moral high ground to judge what others may see hear or do?
Beware all freedom loving Americans you are starting to be coerced and controlled by Fundamentalist Christian groups who have there own agenda which is not Democracy.
Just look what has happened to the Islamic country’s who have been taken over by Neo Conservative Right Wing Fundamentalist Muslims!
Protect you rights and your freedoms don’t go down the road of Fundamentalism it is a dark and dangerous path of bigotry, intolerance and isolationism hidden behind a facade of wholesome Christian belief.