IMNSHO, people who protest against a solution just because they don’t want to look at it yet do nothing themselves to solve the problem are a special kind of hypocrite. Now I’ve seen wind farms in both the USA and Europe, and I think they look kind of cool, myself.
According to Newsweek, “As projects to build “wind farms” of massive, electricity-generating wind turbines continue to multiply, so do the ranks of “not in my backyard” protesters. The turbines, some with blades that sweep as high as a 20-story building, are increasingly seen as unsightly and dangerous manifestations of the industrialization of the countryside. “
There is a strong financial incentive, however, in at least putting up a windmill on your roof or in your back yard:
Wind advocates thus have high hopes for less obtrusive wind technology: specifically, high-performance, nonpolluting rooftop microturbines.
Rising electricity costs are sweetening the deal, as is the proliferation of “net metering” laws that require utility companies to purchase the unused small-wind electricity fed onto the grid. Five years ago half a dozen EU countries obliged energy companies to buy this so-called spill; now 24 countries do. Thirty-nine U.S. states have passed net-metering legislation.
Let’s just hope that neighborhood groups don’t try and over-regulate how people can deploy household windmills.
perhaps these people would rather have a coal burning or nuclear plant in their backyards
I think bowing to protesters when a project benefits a large portion of the public should be stopped. We have a highway project here in CT which has been stalled for more than 40 years because of protesters and is now being implemented in a much smaller (too little, too late) scale. Still, there are those who do not like it. North/south freeways have been needed in our state for 50 years and there is still very little relief.
In NJ they wanted to build a wind farm offshore. There was a wave of protests from fisherman, rich homeowners (that sited there precious home values would have gone down) and of all people environmentalists (who claimed birds might be killed, but I guess burning oil, coal and nuke plants are better) as a result, the asshole Governor put a moratorium on all windmill building off shore. Status quo once again. People complain that we are too depenant on foreign oil, but when you propose a alternative, they complain about that too.
Hopefully the PR companies will get the word out that the technology is different (better and more efficient) than it was 20-30 years ago when these first popped up en masse. Back then it did not behoove anyone to put up a wind farm due to the overhead and maintenance costs. It wasn’t financially bennifitial…thus good business dictates that it’s not a good idea to invest. However, with the improvements that have been made, these things produce a small profit.
gquaglia, I think you’re referring to this.
#5 You are correct. I like to repeat myself…
You see, Sag, you’ve just capitulated to the NIMBY tactic. You identify them as “environmentalists”. They no more are legitimate enviros than are the political creeps in Congress who would give away grandma’s farm for a buck. It’s just the culture of hustling the electorate by choosing a “responsible” name for the crime.
In general, here and abroad, environmental activists choose alternative energy over NIMBY cluster-lies every time. It may be involuntary; but, choosing to accept their white noise as valid, you collaborate.
It’s like all the Good Germans who say they never supported Hitler — they just had a personal problem with Jews.
Most rabid environmentalists I know are dumb as hell and just repeat what they are told without ever bothering to check if it is true or not.
Besides, wind turbines don’t really look bad IMO. Most of them look pretty cool, I think a hill with covered with many spinning turbines would be sort of picturesque.
What if the coal/nuclear/normal power companies were spreading this FUD?
Which probably means — #10 — the only environmental activists you “know” are those you read about at Drudge!
The typical NIMBY is a white, upper-middle-class professional with the petulance of a newly-decanted Republikan. In other words, probably one of your neighbors.
Moss,
You wrong there are environmentalists who think this way. They believe man is evil and should be wiped of the face of the earth. They don’t believe man can do anything right except die. Some don’t go that far but believe man should be living of the natural land. No farms or homes but supporting nature.
The technology is much better now than it used to be, which was already said, but hey, worth repeating. The new models are designed to have the blades above the flight path of birds. At least the models I’ve read about, anyway.
And I’m kind of a tree hugger (GASP!) and I’m all for wind farms. As a matter of fact I see absolutely no reason not to build them. I’d welcome one in my backyard! Yeah, I love the environment, but I also like electricity. This is a great solution.
Thank God for the Chinese! 🙂
With China’s economy steadily increasing, and their demand for petrolium increasing at the same time, the world will not have any choice to fund, develop, and site “alternative” sources of energy.
When the demand meets or exceeds world-wide production capacity – and everyone dreams of when oil was only $70 a barrel – then the NIMBY’s arguments will be [rightly] brushed aside.
David Ignatius’ editorial “How to weather the ‘Red Storm’. ” – regarding China’s economy “breaking” economic models – put this bee in my bonnet. [It was published in the Oregonian, but the Washington Post’s site requires registration…]
Ok guys, unbunch your panties! 🙂 Not all environmentalists are dirt-farming whack jobs. I happen to be more middle of the road. I think modern technology is wonderful and I love to see things progress. The thing is that even the greediest oil mogul needs to breath. I’m just all for finding better technology that maintains our modern life without completely destroying the planet we all have to live on.
“Not all environmentalists are dirt-farming whack jobs”
I have just 2 words “Al Gore”
“The typical NIMBY is a white, upper-middle-class professional with the petulance of a newly-decanted Republikan”
Hey Moss, just for the record, the NJ Governor who imposed a moratorium on offshore windmill building was a democrat. Nice attempt though to again try and blame all the worlds evils on Rebublicans.
Golly gosh, gc, you discovered a Democrat cowardly and opportunist enough to bend over for the Republican Voters League along the Jersey shore. What a surprise.
Dude, you really should consider getting beyond defending one band of twerps against another. The characterization I offered up could easily have been Democrap becoming NIMBY becoming Republikan in whatever order.
It’s still middle-class dweebs turning their back on the whole population. Whether they live in Cape May or Trenton. I blame the worlds’ evils on greedy, ignorant, self-serving philistines. If Republikans fit the description of crook du jour, so be it.
Al Gore is only one person, and I’m not a Democrat.
Moss, New Jersey is a blue state and has been so for quite awhile. Both our Senators are Democrats, our Governor is a democrat. Here is a news flash, many of hords of that are buying up properties at the shore are north Jersey Democrats, so you lefty argument doesn’t wash. I know, I live near there, do you?
gquaglia- your argument is based upon the fact that actual current Democrats personify leftist ideals and try to put them into effect, which I don’t think they really are nowadays. It’s more like politicians are politicians, no matter what side they hail from. I think this is more of a case of special interest groups wielding to much power.
Two words: property rights.
Putting up a wind turbine has absolutely no affect on somebody else’s use or enjoyment of their property; and with that being the case, they have no right to tell me what to do with mine. Having a pretty view of another person’s property has nothing to do with the use of your own.
I more or less grew up with a nuke plant in my back yard. Our ranch is 6 miles from the nuke plant west of Phoenix that supplies most of Las Vegases energy. I don’t glow in the dark, I’m capable of having children. and except for the third eye under my left arm, am not mutated in any way. Nuke power is a lot different than 40 years ago, and a lot safer…..it should be part of any plan to move away from oil/coal based power solutions.
I love wind farms….not only do they work, and work well, I think they are cool to see sprouting up on hillsides. But, some enviromentalists, and the nimby crowd have fought hard to stop many of the farms from being set up. When I am in England for uni, I spend a lot of my down time in Scotland, hill walking. It’s stunning there. They already have several wind farms there and are attempting to build several large ones off the coast of some of the inner islands. I have hiked where a couple of the wind farms are and don’t feel they spoil the scenic views. But next to the nimby’s, the largest and most powerful groups fighting the farms are the greens. They cite the bird deaths and other so called enviromental disasters the farms cause. It looks like they and the NIMBY’S may have just stopped one of the biggest from going foreward, with these bulls**t arguments.
So like moss said, it’s not democrats, or republicans, conservatives or liberals, or even all the local residents or greens. But just short sighted people with their own agendas.
Mike…two words Eminent Domain
gc, you must be younger than you sound. Your ex-governor was Bush’s enviro-flunkey. You have heard of Christie Whitman, right? And NJ Dems are supposed to be “Left”? No, I don’t live near there anymore. Phew! Bad enough I have an ex-wife from Passaic!
Joshua, you should know, then, that what passes for Greens in the UK varies from county-to-county, year-to-year. The original plan for 10-20% of UK power coming from alternative sources was developed by Brian Wilson when he was MP and in Blair’s cabinet. He was always considered too “Green” by the Tories — and even has a house-based wind-generator. The types who led the anti-wind lobby in the Highlands were/are very much centered around Royal Opera types whose history extends all the way back to their 1st holiday home. Plus a few hedgehog saviours from Edinburgh.
And where do you go hill-walking, mate? Haven’t been that side of the pond for years; but, the Cuillins rule!
“Your ex-governor was Bush’s enviro-flunkey. You have heard of Christie Whitman, right?”
Yes I have, she was 2 governors ago. Still doesn’t change that NJ is a blue state. CA is also a blue state, but they have a Rep Governor.
Two words: property rights.
Putting up a wind turbine has absolutely no affect on somebody else’s use or enjoyment of their property; and with that being the case, they have no right to tell me what to do with mine. Having a pretty view of another person’s property has nothing to do with the use of your own.
Maybe a wind turbine has little or no effect on the landowner’s use of his property. A wind turbine and many other types of enterprise does have an effect on the value of the property. While I might not care too much if my neighbor, or even within a short distance from my home, put up a wind turbine or opened an antique shop. I would care very much if they put up a rendering plant, nuclear generator, or NASCAR racetrack. My property values would tumble.
If the property owner has added value to his property because of the view, he might also have a vested interest in what is put onto that property. My point being that there has to be some point where the public good outweighs the damage to individual properties. That is the reasoning behind community zoning laws.
BTW, I am in favor of the wind farms. I would put one up on my own property if I didn’t have so many trees.
Both of you keep going, please.
The big flaw with property value is that it is not just a judgement of the value of the actual property in question, but is also dependent on the surrounding property. But your property’s value doesn’t have any impact on your ability to use or enjoy that property (besides trying to use it to secure credit).
But, it you want to use your property value as an excuse to prevent somebody else from using their property, there is an inequity being created. And my counter argument would be that, if you don’t want me to use my property the way I wish (assuming that it doesn’t in any other way affect yours) you should have to compensate me for the loss of enjoyment and use of mine.
My point is that property value is a completely subjective determination, so my only concern is what is the real impact on your property from my use of mine. And if there is no real impact, then you better be willing to pay me every month to compensate me since you selfishly aren’t letting me do what I want with it.
rwilliams254, this is much worse than emminent domain. At least if a government tries to seize your property with ED, they have to pay you “fair market price” as compensation. With this, you just get stuck with land that somebody else tells you you can’t use. This is exactly the kind of fascist nonsense that goes on with our endangered species laws.
#25…moss…..only in the Cuillins once…..did a mean bastard called Bienn Eighe. I have done some walking in Glencoe area, and Knoydart. Did Ben Nevis last June, that was wild.Tried to do the Squrr Dearg on Skye but couldn’t reach the pinnicle, I don’t have rock climbing experience.
But, back to the wind farms…..I’m sure your aware of the large wind farms along I10 between Blythe and Tehachapi. That wind farm has been there a long time and when they tried a few years ago to expand it, it was the enviro’s that fought hardest against it. Someone above mentioned that some far left extreamist enviro’s are basically back to nature totally lovers, and I think thats who fights even things like the wind farms, and they will team up with groups that they wouldn’t spit on normally if it means stopping the farms.
Ben Nevis. Had a friend die there. Climbing, peeled, rope looped over a rock flake before his weight came on > cut the rope clean. Been in blizzards up top in June! Wildest mountaintop in the UK.
Now, Joshua, try moving away from the sort of easy behavior you accuse Lefties of — sometime. Everyone does not fit a stereotype. I’ve been a radical activist on the Left forever. I also support the right to bear arms and sometimes the death penalty. I’m an enviro who has friends and neighbors who raise cattle. We understand each other.
Downstate from me is one major wind farm and a second getting ready to build. Every major enviro group in the state supports their construction. A few newbies to support for birds and flyways don’t know a damned thing about Altamont and what’s been learned since — so, I get to explain to them the standard evaluation done by the state and feds to site a wind farm — includes flyways. The fears of a few folks like that is as much a slander as folks on the Right saying enviros try to stop wind farms because of birds. That’s not you — but, dig it?
I’m just suggesting you pry a little deeper — since you obviously care enough about discussing to be a learning person, too.
The point of the article up top of this page is that NIMBY’s — the most accurate and inclusive term in the whole discussion — love to call themselves environmentalists. Just like Vice Presidents whose idea of hunting is to shoot 70 doves on a chock full shooting gallery > and call that harvesting. Same hustle, different dancer.