Reckless burning!
Ok in Tuscon a group of anti-immigration protestors burned a Mexican flag and got busted for, among other things, “reckless burning,” thus creating a huge nationwide controversy. People burn the American flag but nobody seems to care. Burn a Mexican flag on US soil and holy bejeesus. Now the Mexican government is complaining about it. Has Bush ever complained about their burning US flags?
Anyway, the protestors and border protection groups are now turning this into a trend, you watch. It’s open season on Mexican flags. This, of course, will backfire and sympathy for the hapless illegal alien and Mexico will ensue. Then everyone can go back to burning American flags where people don’t seem to care so much.
Can this all be solved by giving Arizona to Mexico? I say yes to that idea.
Miller also said the city and the Police Department will examine the video of the Mexican-flag burning done in the middle of the rally and determine if the police made proper decisions and if there is a better way to deal with counterprotesters at future marches.
On Tuesday, Tucson police arrested a man for his role in the burning of a Mexican flag at the rally.
Roy Warden, 58, was arrested on suspicion of assault, criminal damage and reckless burning. He was cited and released.
Warden and his group, Border Guardians, arrived at Armory Park just after noon Monday to stage a counterprotest to the marchers who were protesting what they see as unfair immigration laws. At about 2:15 p.m, they burned Mexican flags and tempers flared.
This incident was predated by a weird episode in a Tuscon school where a Mexican flag was raised over the American flag by Latino students and then taken down by some other students and burrned. The students who burned the flag later admitted that this burning of the Mexican flag was “wrong.” Apparently Arizona is already lost and is now part of Mexico. Now I understand why McCain has caved into all this. He’s given up fighting it and wants to become the head of the new Arizonita, Mexico. He’s thinking ahead of the curve.
Texas should go to Mexico too. I’d add New Mexico to my list but I think I’d lose one of my best editors.
I’m not sure this should be looked at too deeply. I have a suspicion that if this guy had lit a bed sheet on fire in the middle of a rally, we’d have the same end result.
“Can this all be solved by giving Arizona to Mexico? I say yes to that idea…Texas should go to Mexico too. I’d add New Mexico to my list but I think I’d lose one of my best editors.”
*yawn* *golf clap*
I live in Mexico? I thought Phoenix was starting to feel strange.
Time to move back to Kansas. Mexico hasn’t taken them over. Yet.
Thats discriminatory John…….especially since I still count myself as a resident of Arizona.
Besides, if that happened, where would all the Califorians go who discovered they priced themselves out of the California housing market.
As to the flag burning…..I say burn them……the liberal media isn’t going to ever say anything about OUR flags being burnt or anything derogatory about the demonstrations…..so we may as well burn away.
It’s funny the laid back way we react to the dicrimination we face and the way the Mexicans taking over our country react. A little less laid back attitude and more flag burning and protesting might show the world we still have a backbone. But then that would take work, and obvious that this is one more job Americans aren’t willing to do, so we need the Mexicans here to do for us. Just don’t complain when you are getting paid $5 dollars a day and you live in a tin hut like the Mexicans do.
Globalization is about equalizing the outcomes. In order for us to be competitive our wages and living standards must come down to the rest of worlds. This doesn’t mean that it will cost less to live, simply you will have a lower, much lower, quality of life. This is what the Democrats and Republicans represent today. Where are the Nationalists in our government? Electing Hillary in ’08 won’t change that, she’s for Globalization also. A third party is needed, at the local, state and national leve, one that represents the citizens and not the rest of the Global elites.
Pinche gringo. Not you John, the in all likelihood racist flag burner. Sure he should be allowed to burn whatever flag he wishes and his arrest was probably an attempt to placate Mexicans, but that doesn’t make his actions socially responsible.
I would imagine that he believes that he’s doing his patriotic duty by exacting revenge on Mexicans for burning U.S. flags, but he’s merely looking to capture his moment in the spotlight by committing an obviously childish sensationalist act.
If he had a clue and he was looking to join in on a protest that would help his fellow man he’d be out protesting with Mexicans who simply want what all other immigrants wanted, a life as a citizen, not an “undocumented worker”, “illegal alien”, or even a second class citizen. Aren’t they entitled? Don’t they work harder than most everyone else?
This is just another example of the deeply ingrained racism that persists and will continue in our so called melting pot. Of course it a profoundly bad idea to burn the flag of the country you seek to gain citizenship in, but if we are to be such a great nation, why can’t we overlook the acts of the few that haven’t been afforded much of any education…I know, because we haven’t been either! Some dulce vita no?
>>People burn the American flag but nobody seems to care.
You gotta be kidding!
Most Americans REALLY care if you burn the flag.
I’ve never done it (nor would I) but I imagine it’s a great way to get your teeth kicked in.
“Besides, if that happened, where would all the Califorians go who discovered they priced themselves out of the California housing market.”
I understand that my fellow Californians are already moving to Baja California in droves. So, how would Arizona, Mexico be any different.
Besides, the real secret is that we will move enough retired Americans to Mexico, they will fail to uphold Mexican law, cry foul to Uncle Sammy, and just as the Texicans did in the 1800s, we will inherit more of Mexico.
At least, the border can only get narrower that way.
Texas to Mexico…John this happens over a period of time. Remember the, “put a frog in cold water and slowly turn up the heat” adage? In Texas, the boarder is Interstate 10. Soon the boarder will extend to Interstate 20.
You and I both know that we are slaves to our ultra-rich masters. They keep us fighting amongst ourselves as a distraction from the “real” problem/issue. Do you honest believe that we would not be able to fix the drug problem in this country if the rich wanted? Same could be said for education. Public school does not educate, it conditions. Look at the food we consume and what it does to the health of our citizens.
The ultra-rich simply want more cheap labor. That is why congress has failed to act despite an overwhelming response in the poles. The ultra-rich do not care who wins because both candidates are bought before a single vote is cast by the electorate.
One of the reasons the IRA laid down their arms in Northern Ireland was the realization that Catholic families have more children than Protestants. In a few years they would dominate the vote, and take control of the North bloodlessly through the polls. My point is that the border states vote may soon be under control of recent Mexican immigrants. Whether they’ll take the attitude, “I’m here, screw you”, remains to be seen.
Even as a liberal, I wouldn’t burn the Flag. Yet, I understand the Supreme Court’s decision allowing this as freedom of speech. Still, burning our flag is not the best way to garner sympathy and defiantly not the way to get respect.
Burning the flag of the country that is trying to take over vast amounts of America, I have much less issue with. Americans have unequivocally said they do not want illegal, undocumented, underground, or any other type of non-American workers flooding our land. In the process, even though they have broken our laws, they demand respect. Yet repeatedly they have protested against American policy which they do not have a voice in. Repeatedly they have denigrated their host country, their host people, their host’s traditions, and their host’s flag.
I am tired of the argument that they are doing work that Americans won’t do. They are doing the work of people that willingly work for slave wages. Americans will work these jobs, but need a decent wage to live on. During other discussions, most notably Wal-Mart, some posters on this forum have stated that if you don’t like your wage then find another job. Well here is the reason there are very few better paying jobs. By flooding the employment market with cheap labor, willing to work for less then minimum wage, almost all lesser skilled workers have found their salaries lowered.
I’m having a bad morning, so forgive the ramblings.
Its amazing,
that I made a suggestion(?) to a group, and they all had problems with it…
LETs fly over Mexico and drop Flyers….
Those who want Mexico to become PART of the US, raise your hands…
WHO would complain??
1. The US, as then we wouldnt have CHEAP workers coming over.
2. Big Business from the US, in mexico, that dont pay Taxes on goods Made there(at 1/10 the US cost).
3. Big business because we would bring BETTEr wages, Medical support, insurrance, regulations, EPA…Into their CHEAP profits…
a few others, not mentioned…But the Lower income levels would FLOCK to the banner… again…
The Gadsden Purchase: We purchased parts of Arizona and New Mexico back in 1853 for 10 million. This includes what known as present day Tuscon. Give it back? No way Jose.
I believe it was the pro-amnesty crowd that was doing the inciting, not the ones burning the Mexican flag. I used the term “pro-amnesty” because to me pro-immigration is for legal immigration.
11. “Burning the flag of the country that is trying to take over vast amounts of America,”
hmm … that is like saying that Ireland was trying to “take over vast amounts” of the US during the 1840s. and those who try to differentiate between current immigration and past immigration by maintaining that current immigrants dont want to learn English should check out the number of German language newspapers in St. Louis, Milwaukee and Chicago in the late 19th early 20th Centuries.
I agree that the lawless nature of immigration should be dealt with, but let me just toss a few thoughts out there:
markets want to be free. large scale immigration is essentially free market in labor, and restricting immigration is essentially protectionism.
So we have NAFTA and the other agreements provide for free trade in goods, but we are still protectionist in labor. I wonder how many of those now calling for a border crackdown “to protect American jobs and wages” sent a lot of American manufacturing jobs south of the border. the message is – the US wants cheap Mexican labor, but we want them laboring in Mexico.
or in other words, we want cheap Mexican labor, but not Mexicans themselves.
there seems to be a major disconnect here.
Interestingly enough.
EVERY immigrant I’VE talked to is really pissed-off over the illegal aliens screwing both the US and the immigrants.
Then there’s the bullshit about “Mexico’s property”…
I’m sure American Indians (Native Americans to you PC idiots {EVERYBODY born in a country is native by definition}) would be REALLY surprised to find out THAT “fact”.
Not to mention the Aztecs, etc.,,, well, those that survived the slavery, rape, and murder from Spain, that is.
Does Cortez ring a bell?
#11 – Fusion: You’re a liberal? Never would have guessed 🙂
Your not rambling you are just letting out your frustrations that people on both sides of the fence agree with you on. As one of the editors stated in a previous post this subject is not a Left or Right agenda. Unfortunately some people have tried to make it such.
Doesn’t the guy in the picture look like he’s from ZZ Top (with a shorter beard)?
#6…jesus……you assume a lot about someone in a picture. Maybe he’s just a citizen thats tired of what he see’s the ILLEGALS doing in their *protests* against the country they claim to want to be part of.
You seem to have the terms mixed up here, which is a typical thing for the liberal media and the pro-amnesty crowd. The ILLEGALS are just that. They are not immigrents. My grandparents and many millions of others who came to this country legally are immigrants.
It’s not a racist thing. Hundreds of thousands, if not millions of Mexicans and others from South and Central America have come to this country through the proper, legal channels for over 125 years. And I live with those people, work with them and have been friends with them all my life, and they are disgusted by what they see happening. They feel betrayed, they see people who have no respect for the law(entering a country illegally for ANY reason is still unlawful), or for the country they wish to become part of(supposedly) being catered to by the liberals.
The heavy crush of unskilled labour entering this country illegally has had a downward effect on wages in the west and southwest. You claim they are uneducated, but the schools in the southwest and west are collapsing from having to provide free education to these peoples children, when the parents don’t pay the taxes needed to support the schools. Public hospitals are totally overwhelmed with hundreds of thousands of illegals sucking up the health care dollars that are provided by the legal tax paying citizens of this country. Yet, they claim WE are the bad guys here. Why don’t they go home and protest against their own goverment that won’t provide them with jobs, education or health care? Because at home they would be shot, or jailed or told to screw off.
I understand why they come here. I don’t blame them for wanting to better their lives or their families lives. But I do resent HOW they came here and the fact they don’t really contribute anything except cheap labour to this country.
No country can survive and be prosperous when you have an underground force as large as 11 or 12 million sucking up your public resources. I hope that on May 1st….when they stay home to show how much they are needed, that we find out that they really aren’t needed as much as people and the media makes us think they are.
The bottom line is……if they want respect, then earn it. Come here legally, it benifits us all if they do, they can’t force wages down because then empolyers would be forced to pay the going rate. They can have health care, education because they will be paying taxes to help support those systems. And start remembering that they came to my country, so it’s not for me to change my culture to suit them, it’s incumbant upon them to adapt to my culture, language.
A flag is just a piece of cloth. The idea that it represents a nation is medieval. No man should die protecting a hank of cloth.
That damned Pledge to the flag. The flag is not a country, not a law, is not a thing that demands loyalty. We should pledge to the upholding of the Constitution of the US.
Ticket people for flagburning for air pollution. And, if you’re clever, starting importing flags with a nice, easy-to-light ignition corner. That’s the American Way!
1411. “Burning the flag of the country that is trying to take over vast amounts of America,”
hmm … that is like saying that Ireland was trying to “take over vast amounts” of the US during the 1840s.
Not quite. My great great great…grandparents came to America from Ireland. They were escaping a famine. Oh, there was plenty of food in Ireland, only it wasn’t for sale to the Irish peasants whose staple, potatoes, rotted in the fields. More then enough grain was grown in Ireland to feed everyone there, only it was shipped to England to feed the mill workers. Those who could, bought passage to the Americas. They came to a country with vast amounts of unsettled land that needed people.
The Irish did not try to turn everyone Catholic. They did not insist everyone around them speak Gaelic. They sure took an awful lot of abuse and discrimination though.
…maintaining that current immigrants dont want to learn English should check out the number of German language newspapers in St. Louis, Milwaukee and Chicago in the late 19th early 20th Centuries
Different time. The Northern Europeans that emigrated to North America from 1860s on usually brought enough money to start out with. They brought trades and skills with them. Sometimes they were even paid to come by the Rail Roads. They filled much of the West and upper Mid-West. There are still many newspapers in other languages printed in Chicago as well as Los Angeles, San Fransisco, and New York. Today, a requirement for a green card is based upon the number of skills you have, including speaking English.
markets want to be free. large scale immigration is essentially free market in labor, and restricting immigration is essentially protectionism.
Not true. Markets want to be equal. They want to all play on a level field and by the same rules as everyone else. Very few people want any market totally unfettered. Large scale immigration upsets the markets. Part of the labor force is now out of balance compared to the rest of labor. Certain occupations are still restricted but others become over whelmed with members. But maybe you believe it is OK to open up the floodgates for Physicians, Dentists, Engineers, and other self regulated occupations.
I wonder how many of those now calling for a border crackdown “to protect American jobs and wages” sent a lot of American manufacturing jobs south of the border.
I didn’t !!! The companies I own stock in are all American or Canadian owned, operated, and based. I don’t know if any of them have subsidiaries in Mexico, but I don’t think so. I do believe that a few greedy corporations that don’t want to play on an even field moved some operations there though and today import a lot from China. I don’t think I own any of their stock.
there seems to be a major disconnect here.
Not here. I’m consistent. I believe in fairness and equality for all. I do NOT believe people should profit from illegal activities. The illegal immigrants here today want amnesty even though there are tens of thousands that qualify and have waited for years to emigrate here. Their demands are unfair and their being here is illegal.
16, Na, I think more like John Belushi.
18, Very well written post. I might add to your third paragraph, that the influx of illegals has effected wages in all the continental states, not just the South West.
#18 Joshua and partially #21 Mr. Fusion in response to number #6.
Succinctly, they are merely attempting to make a better life for themselves and the U.S. is the nearest place for them to do so. They are able to gain employment (for most, illegally) in this country that pays wages far superior to what they can get in their countries of origin. If corporations, farmers, and any others weren’t always seeking ways to garner higher profits there would be no need for them. The media has portrayed them as the bad guys because they are representing the interests of corporations. It’s the blame game. Just another ploy of misdirection. Call it what you will. If they weren’t able to get jobs of any kind in this country there would be no mass immigration into this country legally or illegally. The immigrants are angry because they are treated like dogs while working in this country like any citizen. Those who place value on jobs ascribe to the practice of despotism of which racism and arrogance are derivatives. The finger usually points elsewhere with the mantra of anyone else’s fault but mine a culpa. If there are no jobs for them fine, they wouldn’t be here. But there are jobs for them and as productive members of society don’t they deserve citizenship to gain representation? While I do not agree with their means of achieving it, their position still remains solid and obvious.
“¡Viva Chile! ¡Viva el pueblo! ¡Vivan los trabajadores!” (“Long live Chile! Long live the people! Long live the workers!”) – Salvador Allende
I wonder how much these demonstrations (with a lot of illegals) are costing the taxpayers? I haven’t heard a word or that from the press.
Would you seriously hand Arizona to Mexico? Why not California?
#25 Paul regarding #6 and #22
My apologies Paul, but I try to avoid contending the hearsay of those who use the phrases “this crappy…” or “screw this” in a serious manner as part of the topic sentence for their paragraphs, no matter how easily their truthiness may be refuted. So if you’d care to continue this I ask that you write with the vernacular of an adult. Thank you.
#27 my good friend Paul regarding #26.
Quod erat demonstrandum? After “bite me”? Hardly. But at least you gave me a chuckle, thanks for that. You’re right, there are no simple answers to arrogance, racism, and ignorance when they all come together. It’s not just the way you attempt to express yourself Paul, it’s that what you say shows what kind of person you are (to some degree). Many who arrogantly think they are objective are those most often easily duped into an agenda of misdirection. The true scope of this problem (by this problem I mean the “undocumented worker”/ “illegal alien” situation) is far greater than what can be addressed within this forum. Most of this is due to the American imperialist agenda that has held back Latin American countries’ development, brainwashed the majority of the American public into whatever they want them to believe, and has created great hate for us around the globe (with good reason). What I was trying my hand at was seeing how a small voice of reason (granted just my opinion of what I see as reason which has to be reformulated from time to time) would be received among all of the thinly veiled condescension towards the immigrants, which was either racially or monetarily motivated. Goodwill towards all should be a common virtue for all to aspire to, but that doesn’t seem to be the case with the “haves” in this country. The general consensus seems to be “I’ve got mine so **** you!”. Indeed frightening times in which we live.
Flame away if you must Paul, but I wish nothing more for you than an honest education. I hope that they invent the POV gun in the near future and it never falls in the hands of a despot. So much for avoiding an ad hominem debate.
Jesus – Since when has a Mexican or other citizen from any other country have the right to come here illegally and tell us how to run our government?
Would you like me to come to your house and tell you what to do, how to do it, and most of all live off of you? I don’t think you would appreciate it.
Trust me, these illegals are not just making below minimum wage. They are working in offices, taking jobs other people could do at the same wage! When people are being laid off they are not getting axed while a citizen has to suffer with being out of work and I find that degrading. Yes, there are big companies hiring illegals.
Most of us in this country don’t agree with flag burning but if you remember the first demonstrations the flags people were waving were from Mexico and he probably was trying to show that the Mexican flag has no bearing here, and IT DOESN’T!
Ceding Arizona, New Mexico and southern Texas to Mexico has been mentioned. In another post somebody was talking about splitting California into three states. Why don’t we just toss southern Cal to the Mexicans and keep southern Texas? Arizona and New Mexico? Well, there isn’t a whole lot going on down there anyways. I doubt all those iguanas really care what flag flies over the mission.
Jesus – I’ll trade you my Chivas someone gave me for some JD or Crown. I like 30 yr. single malt Scotch but I can’t afford it. I do have some JW Gold but that is for my brother when he visits.
So I reiterated the flag burning somewhat but with a slightly different perspective, big deal. So lets go to #6
“but if we are to be such a great nation, why can’t we overlook the acts of the few that haven’t been afforded much of any education…
So you call 10million illegals a few huh?”
People that want to give amnesty to these illegals seem to say they are taking jobs nobody wants. In my post #29 I was just pointing out the contrary to that positon many people have said over the years.
“help his fellow man he’d be out protesting with Mexicans who simply want what all other immigrants wanted, a life as a citizen, not an “undocumented worker”, “illegal alien”, or even a second class citizen. Aren’t they entitled? ”
If they want to be citizens then go through our (The US government’s) process not their process. No one in this world is entitled to citizenship in a different country.
I hope that clears up a few things.
Translation:
Look at me, I have street cred! I’m not just speaking out of total ignorance!
Read and hopefully learn.
Gringo – “The Spanish etymologist Joan Corominas states that it was a variation of griego[1] (“Greek language”), the proverbial name for an unintelligible language (a usage found also in the Shakesperean “That’s all Greek to me”). From the language, it was extended to people speaking foreign tongues and to their usual physical features.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gringo
In recent times, it can be used in a serious context with no prejudice attached to it or it be can used to take on a derogatory term for whites though the degree of its severity is much less than beaner.
Pinche can be translated as “f***”, but is more so a general adjective of greater magnitude than something like maldición. However, it seems that in all your time in the Mission District, you never encountered another way in which “pinche” can be used, a subtlety of meaning few appreciate and the sense of the word that I used it in in post #6.
While my initial intention for it was going to be something different (see post #35) I ended up using it in the sense of the above definition in that he (the flag burner) was miserable as he committed himself to being a jingoist. I had thought that this may have been understood because it was just aimed at him (so it was gringo not gringos, racist comments tend to involve sweeping convictions as in the use of the plural rather than the singular ). It obviously ended up being an unintended double-entendre due to the shortcomings of others to understand it but mostly for me writing it without explaining it to those I should have realized would not understand. But I forget that not everyone can speak Spanish and English, so therein lies my culpability and the reason I made the mistake.
America has had a long history of imperialism, if we wouldn’t hinder, exploit, and destroy Latin American countries (or others for that matter) to secure our own interests, they would be in much better shape now and there would be fewer illegals here now. And beings that you seem to have some ingrained or superficial (typical of popinjays with just that degree of understanding) hate for Allende,
This has been done all around the world, time and time again by the U.S. We overthrow them for two main reasons, to keep them from being a model for others, and to exploit the countries resources to provide us with wealth.
Have a nice evening Paul, and once again, I’m sorry for the shots I’ve taken at you, and hope that you’ll stop playing the victim and start admitting to catching or get into some serious reading.
I appreciate the moderating, but all but one of my sources have been removed, as well as half of my original posting. I’ve started a topic in the Cage Match Forums under Politics Central » Soapbox – general discussion » “US Citizen is Arrested for Burning Mexican Flag…” Cont. from comments however when I attempt to post the above post in its entirety I get the following:
Not Acceptable
An appropriate representation of the requested resource /index.php could not be found on this server.
Apache/2.0.54 (Fedora) Server at cagematch.dvorak.org Port 80
So I’m guessing there something with Apache. I apologize as I’m sure this isn’t the right place to discuss the situation, but I assume that it will be read sooner or later.
Oh, and Paul, please don’t put forth any time in responding to this version of the above and please register in the cage match forums or send me a message so I know who you are as Paul wasn’t under the users list.