TRIBUNE-REVIEW – April 6, 2006:
Zoe Hinkle thinks her miniskirt is fashionable. Her school’s principal says otherwise.
The fourth-grader plans to hold a rally after school Friday along with some classmates at Streams Elementary School in Upper St. Clair. The girls want to let school administrators know they don’t appreciate being told their dresses are too short.
“I think I needed to say something about it,” Hinkle, 10, said Wednesday. “Freedom of expression should be the style you choose.”
Hinkle claims Streams Principal Claire Miller told her last fall her skirt was too short, and now that warmer weather is returning, Hinkle’s friends are being told the same. The girls were told skirts must fall below the knees, Hinkle said.
It seems like there is a reasonable compromise between what she’s wearing in the picture and below the knees.
My high school has virtually no dress code and I enjoyed the short skirts as a guy and in the 70s. But some were really really short and I have to wonder how distracting it was for the male teachers (or the perhaps one lesbian teacher) . It doesn’t mean they were pedophiles or dirty old men, though, although at least a couple were.
what a little snot nosed brat!!! if that were my kid i would beat the crap out f her. its even worse the mother in the story approves of her daughter’s clothing. What is fashionable is not always appropriate for children, especially young girls. there is enough sexualizing of our youth without them dressing attractively. let this girl walk thru a prison ward with that short skirt and see if she still feels like wearing one afterward!!
“Freedom of expression”
She’s 10, she has no freedom. Until she’s much older, she should be doing what her parents, teachers, and possible pastor, tell her to do.
Parents are supposed to guide their children when they are young. Teach them strength, courage, morals, kindness, etc. All the things that a young adult will need to survive in this f’d up world.
You don’t just let them go and do whatever they feel like. That’s how we end up with the “me” generation.
Good job mom, your little girl is going to be on the cover of Girls Gone Wild 2015. At least that what’s going to happen if you continue to breed a need to be sexy at that age.
The school should let her have her little rally, and tell her to go home and get changed into a dress. Business as usually come the next day.
laineypie…
Has anybody seen this show called the Brady Bunch? Apparently it was full of sexualized little girls wearing mini skirts and mini dresses. It was so shocking they took it off the air.
Um but seriously, can’t you wait ’til she old e’nuff to have something to show off and IS SHOWING it off before accusing the kid of trying to turn you and everybody on.
>>she should be doing what her parents, teachers,
>>and possible pastor, tell her to do.
Seems to me that’s just what she’s doing, vis-a-vis the parents.
I didn’t see the teachers weighing in on the topic, and it’s not clear to me that it’s appropriate for a “pastor” to be telling parents (or children, for that matter) what their children may wear to public school.
Compared to what I see out on the street every day, this girl is dressed like a little nun. And at least she’s not bulging out of every space between garments, like the overstuffed sausages who seem to think hanging flab is stylish or attractive. Jeez, the skirt has “shorts sewn under them”. Not much material here for even the dirtiest old man.
Let her go naked! They way kids are dressed these days it’s a wonder the let cars drive by the playground – it’s just a field of soft porn. The high school around here is the red light district in our town around
2:30 all the old men drive in circles to get their looks in.
You know what don’t leave out the boys. With their pants hanging to the knees, who said I want to see your ass all the time. Not to mention they look like retards trying to walk down the street.
Minors and pedofiles unite! Good grief.
Now, if she was wearing low rider jeans and a thong, that would be pretty far out there. This mini is pretty tame. The fact that she is causing such a stir over this is the bigger deal. Expel the little nuissance.
🙂
#5
The point I was making is that 10 year old kids don’t have freedom of choice. They are *supposed* have to adults make decisions for them until they are old enough to take those lessons, and make proper decisions for themselves.
I’m not talking about what she wears when I mention her pastor, I’m talking about one of the many adults in her life that are supposed to help guide her to becoming an upstanding adult. 90% of my rant had nothing to do with what she’s wearing… don’t get hung up on that.
Also my rant is aimed at her mom. “Seems to me that’s just what she’s doing, vis-a-vis the parents.” Yeah, her mom is f’d up also.
“Compared to what I see out on the street every day, this girl is dressed like a little nun.”
That doesn’t make her right, that just makes a lot of people wrong.
I’m for this alternate-feminization: More sluts are good for America.
I agree with myself! Slut power!
And I don’t agree with you sean, sure adults should give advice and guide children. But at some level it is the kids choice, and should be. Our world exists because of those who don’t just listen to what the last generation said. Kids need to learn to think for themselves and to question authority. Just because an adult said something, doesn’t mean it’s right. Infact, given the statistics, I’d say the safe money is on it being wrong. So odds are, we’re both wrong! The current generation of adults isn’t the best source of quality judgement. From the president to the news, things just aren’t working out so well.
Look at this school district. They tried to crack down on a standard attire policy and look what 12 parents were able to accomplish.
http://www.oaoa.com/columns/edit040206.htm
#12 @James
In my opinion, I completely disagree with you. Personally I think it’s this kind of attitude that started a few generations ago, that is screwing up young adults today. Studies show that more than ever, college aged kids can’t make decisions. Young adults today take longer than the generations before to make any real decisions that’ll effect their lives.
And why is that? Because they never learned to make decisions as children. It’s not because as children they weren’t allowed to make decisions for themselves, it’s because they were allowed to make too many decisions for themselves. So they never learned, by way of their parent’s good decision making, how to do the right thing, and how to make good decisions in life.
You’re supposed to “raise” your children, not treat them like little miniature adults, and let them do their own thing. You’re not supposed to be their friend. This isn’t a problem in countries like Japan, and India. The kids coming from those countries are blowing our kids out of the water cause their parents made them work their butts off as children, made them “shut up” and do as their told, and made them learn.
Hey, if the school says no mini skirts, then no damn mini skirts. The only thing this girl is learning is that she can throw a fit when she doesn’t get things her way. More “me” generation crap. And while you should bitch when someone is doing you wrong, she is too young and dumb to know what’s wrong.
Sean
Sorry buddy, but you got it all bass ackwards. A parents job is to teach children to grow up. It is not to do all the thinking for the child. We don’t “own” our child either. She is her own person whome we are guiding through life.
What is wrong with what the young girl is wearing? My six yr old wears her skirts the same length. If you find what she is wearing titillating, then you have a problem, not her. Now, if some principal decided that my daughter’s skirt was too short, I would be on the phone to the school Superintendent within five minutes. Then I would be at the next School Board Meeting demanding, in front of witnesses, to explain why my daughter’s skirt is too high. I would even invite enough friends along too. I’d probably let the media know.
No Sean, I would not allow any pastor, minister, or priest to tell me what morals my daughter should be brought with. I would not tell them how to bring up their children. We allow our daughter to make as many decisions as she can. If we feel that she might have done better, we discuss it.
As for your “studies” showing how unthinking kids are today, we did a study here in our county. Out of 90 + teenage pregnancies in 2002, 70 + had sworn not to engage in pre-martial sex. Surprised? About half of all the girls did not sign a pledge. Oh, and that year, six of those girls’ fathers were pastors, but that is supposed to be secret.
As for the studies you quote. Would you care to cite them and provide any links? The study I cited is confidential and I’m not supposed to know about it. It is also unpublished.
And remember, your children will be picking your nursing home.
whoa…she’s a FOURTH GRADER…and she’s making “fashion statements”. Doesn’t this strike you as a bit….odd? Fourth grade is…like 8-9 years old!!! She’s insisting on wearing a MINI SKIRT?
I’m sorry, why are we in such a rush for our kids to grow up?
Turn off the television, yank the magazines, and make her go outside and PLAY.
Mr. Fusion,
“Sorry buddy, but you got it all bass ackwards. A parents job is to teach children to grow up.”
I’m sorry that you believe what you think is indeed a God given fact. At least I had the courtesy to start my rant with “In my opinion”, because at the end of the day, these are only opinions. You raise your kids your way, and I’ll raise mine my way. Nice try though.
“We don’t “own” our child either.”
Never said we did. Where did that come from? You don’t own your employees either, but you also don’t let them do whatever they want. You don’t own the players in the football team you coach, but you make sure they are doing what you say, because YOU are the coach and know better than them.
It’s not about owning your kids, or treating them like property. It’s about recognizing the fact that you are the older, wiser adult, and they are just kids that don’t know squat. Kids don’t know how to make good decisions, they don’t have the life experience. It’s up to you, the parent, to make decisions for them, not to be a jerk or treat them like property, but to teach them.
“If you find what she is wearing titillating, then you have a problem, not her.”
I think I’ve made it clear my objection is letting kids have their way, whether right or wrong, instead of showing them what is right, and what is wrong.
“Now, if some principal decided that my daughter’s skirt was too short, I would be on the phone to the school Superintendent
…
I would even invite enough friends along too. I’d probably let the media know.”
I.. I… I… You’re right, *you* would do something, not your daughter. It’s *your* job as a parent to ensure your child is being treated fairly. A 10 year old girl shouldn’t be thumbing her nose at authority when she doesn’t have the maturity to fully understand the school’s decisions. That’s where *you* come in, and why your daughter shouldn’t be making those kinds of decisions.
“I would not allow any pastor, minister, or priest to tell me what morals my daughter should be brought with.”
Personally I’m atheist, and there are no pastors in my life. But I’ve known far too many people that send their children to church for exactly the reason I mentioned, which is why I mentioned it. You don’t have to let your pastor teach your child morals, but some people do, and those are the people I was talking to when I made the generalized comment.
“Out of 90 + teenage pregnancies in 2002, 70 + had sworn not to engage in pre-martial sex. Surprised?”
Umm.. no? And this has something to do with what?
“Oh, and that year, six of those girls’ fathers were pastors, but that is supposed to be secret.”
Again, this has something to do with the discussion?
“As for the studies you quote. Would you care to cite them and provide any links? ”
Sorry, but those are the kinds of things you read in newspapers before throwing them away. Next time I’ll write down the source to everything in case I get into a debate with someone, somewhere, sometime in the future.
“And remember, your children will be picking your nursing home.”
You are right there. And that’s why I’m ensuring they will be a success in life so they can pay for an expensive one. 🙂
Go ahead and be your daughter’s best friend instead of her teacher. Some of the most successful people I know hate their fathers, but wouldn’t be a success without them.
I suppose our different outlooks comes down to our different opinions of success in life. I want my kids to grow up smart, respectful, dressed for success, and able to take on the world. I’m guessing you just want your kids to feel all warm, fuzzy, and loved inside. Good thing, cause we all know it’s a warm, fuzzy, loving world out there.
(P.S. I’m not trying to be a jerk, but I do love a good debate. Don’t take anything I’m saying as an attack towards you or your way of raising your kids. Everything I said up there was *thought out* in a respectful manner, not an attacking one.)
Oh yeah, and as the great Will Smith said in his song “Parents Just Don’t Understand”
“You go to school to learn, not for a fashion show”
Mr fusion Glad you are not my father. My father has never been a friend or buddy, he has been a good example of a strong self suficent man. and a excellent mentor. But never a pal. He also taught me to respect authority Totally unpolitcally correct I know .
Mini skirt = slut in traing with durty ol’ man hanging about getting they lookies in. Kids these out of control. Parents just letting them do whatever they want… ?!?
Okay you all scared me. Or did somebody go in time and squish a dino egg and erase the decades which these coments while completly wrong would not seem so out place…
>>I think I’ve made it clear my objection is letting kids have their way,
>>whether right or wrong, instead of showing them what is right, and
>>what is wrong.
Get with the program, Sean. The parents COMPLETELY SUPPORT the gir’l’s wish to wear the “miniskirt”. If the wrinkled-up prunes at her school think that kind of attire is too “sexy”, maybe they should get into some kind of counseling.
Sounds like you’re just pissed because you disagree with the whole family, and think that outsiders should be able to mandate that the girl not wear what is, by my estimation a G-rated (not even bordering on PG) outfit.
>>Fourth grade is…like 8-9 years old!!!
It says right in the article that she is TEN. Do you REALLY think that the clothes on that girl would excite the prurient interests of a NORMAL person? Sheesh. And for the pervs, they could probably get off on a baby in swaddling clothes.
Sean,
I’ll try to be brief so I will skip some of the asininity in #17
“We don’t “own” our child either.”
Never said we did. Where did that come from?
#14…The kids coming from those countries are blowing our kids out of the water cause their parents made them work their butts off as children, made them “shut up” and do as their told, and made them learn.
I.. I… I… You’re right, *you* would do something, not your daughter. It’s *your* job as a parent to ensure your child is being treated fairly. A 10 year old girl shouldn’t be thumbing her nose at authority when she doesn’t have the maturity to fully understand the school’s decisions. That’s where *you* come in, and why your daughter shouldn’t be making those kinds of decisions.
When my daughter makes a correct decision, I will back her. When my daughter is attacked I will protect her, as I would anyone being oppressed (though maybe not to the same degree). Because we are responsible for my daughter and face the consequences if she is expelled, we are the ones who will speak. If you can’t support your children then I really feel sorry for them. In this specific case, the mother fully supports the decision her daughter made on her attire. I am quite sure that if the media interviewed the mother she would have something to say.
“I would not allow any pastor, minister, or priest to tell me what morals my daughter should be brought with.”
Personally I’m atheist, and there are no pastors in my life. But I’ve known far too many people that send their children to church for exactly the reason I mentioned, which is why I mentioned it.
#3 She’s 10, she has no freedom. Until she’s much older, she should be doing what her parents, teachers, and possible pastor, tell her to do.
“Oh, and that year, six of those girls’ fathers were pastors, but that is supposed to be secret.”
Again, this has something to do with the discussion?
#3 Good job mom, your little girl is going to be on the cover of Girls Gone Wild 2015. At least that what’s going to happen if you continue to breed a need to be sexy at that age.
As I said, I’m cutting this short. I think though, you have answered most of your own questions.
Lighten up a bit, encourage your child to think. Praise them when they make a good choice and show them why a different approach is better when they fail. Let them have faith that they not only can be, but are trusted. Sure, let them be kids, just don’t forget that they are going through a learning experience and need your support, not your decision making for them.
BOBG, And I’m glad you are not my daughter. I would never name her Bob.
I am not and will never be my daughter’s “pal”.
Yesterday, I spent over an hour with her teaching her to catch a ball, she is 6 ½. It was a great time for us, even though I am still on crutches. We often will go out for lunch, just the two of us for a daddy/daughter day. We sit for hours reading books together. Or watching both her and my movies together. But I will never be her pal, I will always be her father.
#20
You’re right Carl. The previous archaic way of raising our children was a total failure. We build this great country, made it one of the richest in the world in record time, by making our kids work hard, and by smacking them on the ass when they screwed up. By making them listen to what they were told. That was a failure. I mean, who needs hard working, selfless citizens anyway?
We made 10 year old girls dress like 10 year old girls, made them wear pretty sun dresses with ribbons in their hair, and they grew up to be ladies with class, ladies running fortune 500 companies. That was a failure. Who needs high paying jobs when you can look sexy?
The foreign companies, run by people who were raised “the old way”, that are quickly taking over this country, they will certainly fail. The slacker generation will prevail!
The Japanese and Indian kids who are forced by their parents to study and work hard, who wouldn’t think of crossing their parents, and who are growing up, and taking all the top scientific and tech related jobs, they are doomed to failure. Who wants to be a doctor anyway? Can’t go clubbing all week *and* be a doctor.
Thank God we’ve thrown out the “old” dinosaur way of raising our kids in favour of treating them like little adults, letting them do what they want, and letting them dress however they want. We sure are creating a generation of success!
The kids who are left to their own devices, and are shooting their classmates, that has nothing to do with the “new” way we’re raising our kids. The fact that their parents aren’t up their kid’s asses 24/7, and letting them run around doing whatever they want, is totally unrelated.
Whole new generations that are only concerned with themselves, and what the world can do for them, that has nothing to do with the “new” way we raise our kids. Generations of young adults who think the world owes them something for nothing, that is totally unrelated to the “new” way of raising kids.
Little girls having sex at 13, and later, just barely legal, dancing naked in front of cameras so they can be on a sleazy DVD, having no respect for themselves, and thinking beautiful is better than smart and hard working, that has nothing to do with the “new” way we’re raising our kids.
You’re are right Carl. The “new” way of raising our kids has been a resounding success! What we need is more of that!
#23
Mr. Fusion, what the heck was that? You quote me saying that I never said we “own” our children, and then you quote me again, were… yeah, I never said we “own” our children. Were you just trying to remind me of what I didn’t say?
I also don’t understand what you were trying to accomplish by quoting my original message related to pastors, and then only partially quoting my next comment when I said I was directing that comment towards the legions of people that DO expect the church to teach their children morals, and didn’t direct the comment specifically at you, or people in general. You know there are *still* millions of people in this country that send their children to church several times a week for moral guidance?
Then you quote a study of girls who were obviously themselves raised by bad parents, pastors or not, and then quote me bashing those kinds of parents. Thanks for supporting me on that one.
“As I said, I’m cutting this short. I think though, you have answered most of your own questions.”
Yes I did, and thank you again for backing up my answers. I don’t think you’ve answered your own questions though. You say it’s ok for little girls to wear mini skirts, and then you quote a study showing little girls losing their virginity at an alarmingly young age. I’m sure those things are unrelated.
“Yesterday, I spent over an hour with her teaching her to catch a ball, she is 6 ½. It was a great time for us
….
We sit for hours reading books together. Or watching both her and my movies together”
Sounds like the kinds of things I do with my “pals”.
#21
Mister Mustard,
“The parents COMPLETELY SUPPORT the gir’l’s wish to wear the “miniskirt””
And? You all-caps “completely support” like I missed something, and in fact that is what I’m complaining about. That her parents completely support any decision her daughter makes.
“Sounds like you’re just pissed because you disagree with the whole family, and think that outsiders should be able to mandate that the girl not wear what is…”
Outsiders?? It’s the school principle making rules about what kids can and can’t wear AT HER SCHOOL. She’s not telling her what she can’t wear at home. The principle is hardly an “outsider”.
And I’ve said it before, and I’ll keep saying it, you go to school to learn, not to show off your trendy cloths.
Let me explain the slut-in-training comments (after all, two James’ can’t make a wrong).
From my point of view, feminization has succeeded… but not in the way the burn-your-bras crowd thought.
The primary example is that feminization was to empower women to be equal with men. Instead, it has empowered women to be more edgy in their dress and behavior, and have that accepted since they’re supposed to be equals.
How did this happen? My guess, based on the comments above, is that Gen-X females had it too easy, and now they don’t know how to be powerful without being considered a bitch, and don’t know how to get what they want without giving something to get it (which would be the high level definition of a slut).
But, not that I’m complaining or anything…
>>It’s the school principle making rules about what kids can
>>and can’t wear
Uhhhhh, the school already HAS rules (‘The district dress code says “school officials may not impose limitations on dress unless the attire causes the disruption of the educational process or constitutes a health or safety hazard.”‘, in case you didn’t read the entire article), and the principal just decided to circumvent them and make up his own as he went along.
The girl has an outfit, she doesn’t think it’s scandalous, her parents don’t think it’s scandalous, her friends and her friends’ parents don’t think it’s scandalous, I don’t think it’s scandalous, and (other than a few pervs and pedos), no one is getting sexual thrills out of it.
Is there a problem here I’m missing?
# 29 – Problem found…the next line reads, “Decisions on whether attire is appropriate are largely left to the discretion of principals, Kushner said.”