I (Dave — John apparently wants to make it clear I’m the one who posted this) consider myself a devout athiest who came to it as a teenager after studying science, history, religion, the history of religion (something very few people learn about–quite eye opening), sociology, psychology and many other fields. Put it all together and I had the how and why religion developed, plus a more plausible, observable explaination of the universe to replace the theory that an invisible being created the universe. No God, god or gods required.
Atheists Put Their Faith In Ethical Behavior
Melissa and Chanse nibble on club sandwiches and french fries at a local coffee shop. To look at them, they’re just another young couple enjoying lunch on a weekday afternoon.
She wears stylish glasses, and her thick black hair is swept up in a ponytail; the only hint of a slightly rebellious streak is the tattoo that peeks from under her shirtsleeve. He is a slight, soft-spoken man with a laid-back demeanor and a full beard.
Melissa and Chanse are young atheists. They don’t believe in God. As such, they’re part of a small but substantial minority that swims against the overtly religious mainstream of America, a spiritual tenor that has grown more strident in recent times as issues of faith increasingly become entangled with politics and public policy.
“Right now, the fastest-growing religious identity in America is the nonreligious,” says Dan Barker, co-president of the Freedom From Religion Foundation (FFRF).
Dave sez:
For those who think athiests believe in nothing, make sure to read the whole article.
Geez, is religion so ingrained in our society that it’s news worthy to point out the Atheists amongst us?
I’m not convinced by the arguments against my existence.- oh never mind I’m off to create a new universe somewhere else.
I have to agree with Sean (#41) on this one. Hearing someone tell me whether he believes in God is about as exciting as finding out whether he wears boxers or briefs. In both cases, I’m confused why he thinks I would want to know.
#43: Boxers.
I’ve been attending a 60% devoutly atheist secular humanist Unitarian Universalist congregation lately, and find that there are lots of people who want to do good for it’s own sake without anyone telling them to do it. The first year I went to see why ~100 people would meet every week to not worship. I continue to go for the ability to join up with others to perform social justice, and because no one makes coffee like a Unitarian Universalist. http://www.uua.org
interesting – the athiest commentators have confirmed something for me. Athiesm, while not a religion, is a fundamentalism. i.e. its adherents reflexively condemn everyone who disagrees with them.
whereas the religious fundamentalist will say a non-believer is going to hell, athiests accuse believers of being idiots. I find both equally obnoxious.
The older I get the more I’m convinced that very few people RATIONALLY decide whether they are atheists or not.
Many SAY they “weighed all the evidence” and came to believe in God (or not). I think they even believe they made an intellectual decision.
But the older I get the more I believe that perception of spiritual realities (or not) is hardwired into our brains.
“God” is a half-way understanding in the evolution of the ultimate unexplainable: Consciousness.
God is Man. Consciousness contains God and Mankind. It is more powerful than either.
Be an atheist. That is logical; God is a fairy-tale, albeit a powerful one.
In the end, however, you cannot deny Consciousness. If you do, you do not exist to even know you are an atheist.
I believe in Consciousness. That is my “God”. And I bow before it because it is Great. It is my Creator.
When the Tao is lost, there is goodness.
When goodness is lost, there is morality.
When morality is lost, there is ritual.
Ritual is the husk of true faith,
The beginning of chaos.
-Lao Tzu, from “Tao Te Ching”
Ever notice how atheists are miserable and cranky? I’d be miserable if there wasn’t any hope for the afterlife too. Oh well, to each his own.
To claim that you come to the conclusion that there’s no God – IMO – is pretty much the same as concluding there is one.
I agree with John, Agnostism makes more sense; the more you know, the more you realize you know so little! The rest is faith; either in a some religious belief or in the current established scientific “facts”! Both of with are flawed depending on which side of the fence you’re sitting.
my $0.02
what bothers me is how freaking rude religious people are — i don’t try to sell you on my religion, don’t try to sell me on yours.
it’s bad enough we insist on foisting our beliefs on our children, shouldn’t we be able to leave each other alone?
and yes, i know, everyone hates catholics, but i didn’t choose how i was raised, and i don’t care enough about religion to switch to something else.
There is ABSOLUTELY one thing that everyone will agree on, no matter what religion, faith or belief. Therefore, it is an absolute truth. And, it is this:
YOU ARE GOING TO DIE.
With just that bit of TRUE knowledge, life is meaningful, and there is nothing else to believe in. You come to your own conclusions after knowing death will be yours someday. For me, I want to enjoy this life and make things easier for me and my neighbor. Why fight? Enjoy life. It’s a gift.
“I agree with John, Agnostism makes more sense; ”
The problem with that approach is that agnosticism is, for all intents and purposes, orthogonal to theism/atheism. You can be an agnostic theist or an agnostic atheist.
Theist/atheist are two terms that describe what you do or don’t believe. Agnostic is a term that describes how you arrived at that belief/no-belief.
Ok, now that we got that out of the way:
coke, tab, or pepsi?
A&W root beer over any brand?! You FOOL. Henry Weinhard’s and Frostie’s, they are both kings unmatched! I will not get into the inferiority of Mountain Dew, such conversation is beneath me.
I dunno, battleships might have food on them, and religion might bring happiness, but both can cause and be used for war. I see a connection.
Oh! Inverse? Well battleships can destroy food supplies.
Agah, nevermind. I need some tea.
#67 & #68
When geeks attack.
More politics and religion. Every BB moderator or poster knows this will always get their attention.
Let’s have an up or down vote on these issues and be done with it.
Wow…let’s post something about religion and what people believe and you get over 70 comments and no one agrees with anyone else.
Shocking…just shocking. Who would of thunk it?
Religion relies on emotion. Emotion is not inherently rational. Therefore, religion != rational. 🙂
Seriously, I don’t feel that there’s any basis for religion in the first place. There is no evidence that falls outside the bounds of heresay and conjecture. I see no reason to contemplate this supernatural entity (or entities) in the first place.
Now on the other hand, if someone can show me a baggie of God’s droppings…
Great article. I’ve taken to labelling myself (only when pressed, mind you) as an agnostic with atheistic tendancies. It’s easier than trying to explain the difference. Seems to me that atheists tend to be more militant about the whole issue.
@78, last paragraph
I agree with Paul almost completely. The only real problem I have with religion are those people who think it is their duty to correct your “flawed” ideas/beliefs.
Due to a lack of anything to add to the discussion, here are a couple of my favorite quotations, as found on positiveatheism.org:
Now it is such a bizarrely improbably coincidence that anything so mindbogglingly useful [the Babel fish] could have evolved by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see it as a final and clinching proof of the non-existence of God.
The argument goes something like this: “I refuse to prove that I exist,” says God, “for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing.”
“But,” says Man, “the Babel fish is a dead giveaway isn’t it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don’t. QED.”
“Oh dear,” says God, “I hadn’t thought of that,” and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic. — Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hiker’s Guide to the Galaxy (book one of the Hitch Hiker’s Guide to the Galaxy series), p. 50
and, finally:
“To illustrate the vain conceit that the universe must be somehow pre-ordained for us, because we are so well-suited to live in it, he [Adams] mimed a wonderfully funny imitation of a puddle of water, fitting itself snugly into a depression in the ground, the depression uncannily being exactly the same shape as the puddle.”
— Richard Dawkins, in “Lament for Douglas” (14 May 2001)
There are no athiests in foxholes. William T. Cummings
I was in WW II ad can attest to that
Wow, should have guessed that this topic would cause a lot of people to put finger to keyboard.
“Ever notice how atheists are miserable and cranky?”
Nope. Most of the people I know who are atheist are very cool, calm, and collected. More so than some of the serious religious zealots I’ve met that actually scare me a bit. I wonder if they just escaped an asylum.
Agnosticism is really a cop out. “There might be a god and there might not.” Yoga Berra would be proud of that philosophy as it covers all bases without making any sort of a definitive answer.
To say that you do not accept the god claim because there is insufficient evidence to support the claim is to say that you are an atheist. BOTH atheists and agnostics accept that their position would change if sufficient scientific evidence was presented to support a god claim. Of course, if you can do that then said being is no longer supernatural; it’s natural.
It all comes down to one issue: do you accept claims that have no evidence? If yes, then you are really a theist of some sort. If no, then you are an atheist.
Dusan: “ people led by the pure reason and no religion are extremely unlikely to become zealots”
Sure. Like, for example, the totally reasonable and unzealous Joseph Stalin and Mao Tse Tung – devout atheists both!
Steve: “First, I’ve never met a “miserable and cranky” atheist”
Well there’s a couple editing this blog.
Steve/Drew – beliefs are private and can you stop shoving them down our throats. It’s a pathetic attempt to prove you’re superior. Go and start your own blog or something.
Thomas (#86) What then, would you say is the difference between an atheist and an agnostic? I usually sum it up like this:
Atheist: a person who *actively* disbelieves in the existence of god.
Agnostic: recognizes that the existence of god will never be proven or disproven sufficiently to satisfy both believers and non-believers, so forgoes bothering with the question in the first place.
“No atheists in foxholes”? Are there still religious numnums who believe that crap?
My closest friend for decades was the most decorated soldier from his home state during WW2. Every medal shy of the Congressional M of H — and he was nominated for that. Was an atheist before he enlisted. Stayed an atheist through the war. Remained an atheist the rest of his life.
For him, like most atheists, it wasn’t a big deal. It’s only True Believers who have a problem with the question.
I vote for Barqs !!! Diet can shove it though. Who ever invented Diet drinks should be made to drink ’em. YUCK
Any ways,…
Stalin and Mao are two good examples of atheists that swayed millions. However they supplanted, what we would acknowledge as normal religions, with communism. Instead of worshiping some god, they now worshiped the state, and the leader. It was Karl Marx that opined “religion is the opiate of the masses”. And it was Lenin, Stalin, and Mao that proved him correct.