Kdnix says:

Greg…….Its not sexism…its reality. Liberals have made it ok to do these things. ..look…I am not saying I dont appreciate my rights as a woman and as an American..but I will never be in favor of a woman especially who support ideas that women can just keep having babies by supplying enormous amounts of welfare…or to make the decision that life really isnt that important so off to the clinic. Until the ideals of this country revert back to a time when people were taught family values and what it means to be responsible for your actions and that its not ok to let someone else raise your kids or pay for them and you cant plea insanity when you commit a crime and people finally realize that the majority of chester molestors can not be “rehabilitated” and society realizes that sometimes youre kids need a spanking without someone screaming child abuse… then how can we let a liberal…especially a liberal woman run this country??? We definently need someone with strong convictions and morals and good with money I agree with you there. Isnt anyone else besides me tired of people whining about the special rights they deserve??? Tired of the re-writing of the constitution and re-interpretation of laws….ahhhh liberals. Ok so maybe I am a little more on the right than previously stated. It will be interesting to see who the Repubs come out with..besides McCain.

catherine helzerman says:

I’m as left wing as it gets so I am really going to hate it if Hillary runs, because I just don’t think I could vote for her. Which means: who the heck would I be voting for? Shudders.

Drew McNulty says:

Another vote for Mark Warner, a centrist Democrat that has worked well with a GOP state congress. Besides, I think senators usually make for poor presidential candidates- too long of a voting record, not much “executive” experience.

I don’t understand Hillary as a candidate, I recall that she was largely rebuked from policy decisions after her health care reform collapsed during Clinton’s first term.

rob says:

David,

public opinion is important that is why we vote to put the person in office who we think has the ideas and standards to best represent us. If you get up and are always changing the way you feel just to win votes show that you really have no backbone or standards at all and I don’t know about you but I do not want a leader with no standards, that is swayed by each and every wind that comes along

Thomas says:

Oh, and by the way David, the US is NOT a democracy, it is a republic. Big difference.

Greg says:

Kdnix: The sexism remark was directed to David. The response to you was more for the Rush Limbaugh-fuelled barrage of caricatures that I didn’t even know where to start. Do you really think sexual harrassment is limited to guys looking at women who dress suggestively? The Welfare Queens thing is pure Rush, and it’s ridiculous. Let’s look at a few more.

– Not letting other people raise your kids. I’m a liberal, and I’m all for that. Polls show most people would love to stay home with their kids but it’s not possible for them financially. The caricature would have you believe it’s all businesswomen who put their careers ahead of their family. There are a few of them, but it’s not the majority nor what liberals are trying to push. I also know a typical response, that maybe they shouldn’t be buying big screen TVs then. If only that were the case.

– Not letting people plea insanity. I’m a liberal, and you’ll get no defense from me on this.

– Rehabilitating child molesters. Again, when did this become a liberal position?

– Spanking children. Here we can have an actual debate. I think it’s unnecessary. My parents raised four boys and never needed to spank us to get us to behave. However, I don’t know of anyone saying it should be illegal, just that you shouldn’t do it.

I’m sure you can find liberal flakes here and there that actually support ridiculous positions. I hear about them too from time to time. But you have to look at what influential people in the party are saying and what polls show to get an idea of what is mainstream and what isn’t. You know, listening to what we say instead of what certain conservatives say we’re all about.

Rob: Again, more caricatures. Who’s saying people shouldn’t have to work? As for health care, Ford actually said how beneficial Canada’s system has been to them. It’s not like health care in here is great already. I would like it to be cheaper and offered to everyone. That’s my motive. It makes you sick that someone’s child gets the care they need because the parent doesn’t have health care? Why should the child be punished because of the parent? And who says the parent doesn’t work? They might work in a job that has crappy or no coverage. And if you don’t want to pay more, as I said earlier, people in other countries pay half, literally half, what we pay towards health care. You would save money while still covering all those children.

Me: Once again, are you really arguing against liberals or a conservative caricature of liberals? (Wow, a theme!)

I don’t like SUVs and wouldn’t drive one unless I legitimately need it. However, I wouldn’t want to outlaw them, just raise their fuel efficiency. There are new hybrid SUVs that get the same mileage as a car.

The “elitism” is you assuming motives. “They’re not content to live their own lives a certain way, they have to try and force me to live that way to because they’re more ‘enlightened’ than I am.” No, it’s because such things have an effect on more than your life. There’s the environmental degradation that affects a lot. There’s the reliance on oil that holds us captive to the Middle East. Ever wonder why we can’t tell Saudi Arabia to piss off? They have the same problems as other countries in the region but we can’t confront them.

I would also argue that conservatives are just as likely to interfere in your personal lives as they try to legislate morality all the time. How does gay marriage affect you? It doesn’t, but the idea bothers them so no one can have it. What about Terri Schiavo? The entire government swooped in to interfere in what courts had already been through over and over again, and it turns out they were right.

doc says:

Bring back al gore

Al gore/Obama vs Mcain/condi

That’l be fun

lol

Mr. Fusion says:

Kdnix

Sorry dear, but by the tone of your response you ARE a radical. You paint ALL women as whores. And blame Hillery Clinton for that?

Thomas

The U.S. is indeed a democracy. It uses the republican form of government as compared to the parliamentary system used by most of the free world.

Thomas says:

> The U.S. is indeed a democracy. It uses the republican form
> of government as compared to the parliamentary system used
> by most of the free world.

NO! To say the US is a democracy and a republic is a non sequitur.

Government; Republican government. One in which the powers of sovereignty are vested in the people and are exercised by the people, either directly, or through representatives chosen by the people, to whom those powers are specially delegated. In re Duncan, 139 U.S. 449, 11 S.Ct. 573, 35 L.Ed. 219; Minor v. Happersett, 88 U.S. (21 Wall.) 162, 22 L.Ed. 627. [Black’s Law Dictionary, Fifth Edition, p. 626]

Democracy. That form of government in which the sovereign power resides in and is exercised by the whole body of free citizens directly or indirectly through a system of representation, as distinguished from a monarchy, aristocracy, or oligarchy. [Black’s Law Dictionary, Fifth Edition, pp. 388-389].

A republic and a democracy are not the same thing. Although not a pure republic we are still first and foremost a republic (“…and to the Republic for which it stands…”). Democracies with large numbers of constituents end in chaos. Legislation blows which ever way the sheep go. The Founding Fathers most definitely did not want this:

“Will you help to preserve minority rights by fulfilling the promise in the Pledge of Allegiance to support the Republic? Will you help by raising public awareness of the difference between the Republic and a democracy?”
– Thomas Jefferson

“The true distinction between these forms…is, that in a Democracy, the people meet and exercise the government in person; in a Republic they assemble and administer it by their representatives and agents. A Democracy consequently will be confined to a small spot. A Republic may be extended over a large region.”
– James Madison, Federalist Paper #14

Wikipedia defines the US government officially as a “republic with constitutionally ordained democratic institutions.” (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_%28varieties%29)

joshua says:

would i vote for Hillary?………..no
Why not?………I had all of the Clintons I want. She was part and parcel of hubby’s goverment. But, the main reason, I don’t trust her, she is already flip flopping on issues she just took a stand on 2 months ago.
Someone said that someone who has a core set of values(even if you don’t agree with them) is preferable to a person who tries to be all things to all people….I agree totally. She has no core values, or least none that she has been willing to make public.
Who, if not Hillary?…….Maybe Mark Warner of Virginia,I would need to know more about him. But he sounds good, sort of like what my Dad calls an old fashioned Democrat. His a moderate/Liberal, pro defense, but not rabid war, his liberalism seems to be about core social values, not the far left fringy stuff….so…we’ll see.
The thing about Democratic politics is what someone mentioned above, there is always a dark horse that creeps up at the last minute from nowhere…Clinton was 1, Dean another, even Dukakis, and Cater.
Senators rearely win their party’s nomination and when they do, they usually lose. Last one to win was Kennedy in 1960.
Most of our Presie’s come from the states(govs) or the military, followed by v.p.’s or cabinet secretary’s.
Would you vote Republican if Hillary was the Dems. choice…..yes….or Libertarian.
I could vote for McCain, his age bothers me, but he does say whats on his mind and he has pinned Bush to the wall more than once. As for skeletons, whoever brought that up is wrong, he’s been through to many very hard fought political battles, if there was anything more out there, it would be public by now. He is a Conservative, but not of the religious right, but he has good social credits, he believes the internet should be free of goverment hinderance, a strong defense, balanced budgets, no dirty money in politics, and many other good ideas. He is and has been very strong with independents, and at least 60% of the Republicans, he could win and beat Hillary badly. But, his V.P. choice would be very important, he may only be a 1 term President.

Someone said above that they wondered if Condi was smart or Bush’s person. She is brilliant. She is an acknowledged expert on Eastern Europe and Russia. She was the first black female Provost at Stanford University, not by quotas, or set asides or affirmative action, but by brains. She was the first black, female National Security advisor, the first black female Secretary of State. But, she really dosen’t want to be President. She wants, and this is serious, to be the first female Baseball Commissioner…..lol
She comes from an old, upper middle class black, Republican family, leftover from when the blacks almost all voted Republican. That class of blacks all but disappeared in the 1930’s. She isn’t a ghetto girl.

Greg……you said many things that I would love to argue about….lol….but the one about other western socities and socialized medicine got me. Just this week, a report by the U.K. goverment put out that 100,000 people are waiting for more than a year for non-life threatning surgeries in the U.K…..that it is now taking from 3 to 8 days for *emergency* heart surgury to be performed. That there are only enough hospital beds to accomadate 80% of those in need of one at any given time in the U.K.
What we need is what we have, but with some system of keeping price in line without hurting research into disiese and other health problems. But, I have no ideas, not even remotely my area.

Mr. Fusion…….I hope to God we never have to go through a goverment that leads by polls again. The public in this country gets all excited about ANYTHING for 15 minutes then forgets about it. I want leaders who say what they feel about issues, what they hope to accomplish and then if they are elected, stick to it, unless proven to be so far off that they must change their minds. Not because Oprah or some other sob sister sways them with superficial *facts* about an issue.
Let me leave you with a quote that is old, but so damn true …….made about this country….

*Anyone who believes democracy is the best form of goverment should spend 5 minutes talking to an average voter*….Winston Churchill

*

Jim says:

Hillary has my vote. The men have had their chance and have screwed it up with all their male-ego driven wars and other nonsense.

Jim
male, heterosexual

Greg says:

Me: If you want to believe global warming isn’t real, despite all the scientific evidence to the contrary, or that it won’t have serious implications, that’s fine. If you want to believe that our reliance on oil is unfixable or won’t have serious implications either, that’s fine too. But don’t tell me that these are positions that aren’t defendable by logic, reason, and science. Saying they’re based on emotion implies that. It demeans the other side of your position by implying they’re irrational, which is certainly not true.

Joshua: Then the UK system is broken. Is that the case everywhere? I honestly don’t know, but I don’t think that has to be an inevitable result. Those numbers are pretty ridiculous though, their system definitely needs an overhaul. But are you saying there aren’t other countries that handle it better?

The other side is that our current system has plenty of people without any insurance whatsoever, or they have crappy coverage that barely does anything. If a medical emergency hits, they’re in bankruptcy. And again, our companies are bearing the weight of the current system, and I’ve heard people come out and say that it’s and impediment to creating new jobs.

But this isn’t really my area either. My point is that “socialized medicine” isn’t nearly as scary as people make it out to be.