So I went to one of those Taco Bell/KFC hybrids in Morrisville, NC and all the ordering was done through the gigantic touchscreens. No humans take orders there.
You think that’s bad, how about a vending machine that cooks the pizza!
But the Japanese still has the US beat, as usual.
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Mr Fusion–
Im a big fan of the robot cashiers at Wal-Mart, Home Depot and Albertsons.
Is that because you can curse at the robot and it won’t refuse to serve you?
—-No. It’s because robots do not stand there having conversations with their friends or speaking on a cell phone while I am waiting to pay and robots speak far better english than the average fast food employee.
Giving people jobs that require absolutely no education and little brain power dooms these people (and often the children they begin producing in their teens) to a lifetime of meaningless zombie work.
Do you make this statement because you have worked in a fast food restaurant? How do you know how much skill it takes handle an order desk? Those who have done it will tell you the hardest jobs are those serving the public. The tenor of your comment demonstrates why serving the public is so difficult. Do them a favor and stick with the self service machines.
Actually I did work in a McDonalds when I was 14 yeaers old, this was when you still needed to be able to read to run the cash register. I now work with a major US corporation that has thousands of minumum or near minumum wage employees. We us a POS system very close to what the fast food industry uses. If someone says “cheeseburger” mash the picture of the cheeseburger with the palm of your hand. If someone says “two cheeseburgers” mash it twice. These systems have little more complexity than the average Fisher Price toy.
Any adult depending on a fast food job to support a family has already made some pretty serious mistakes in their life. They cannot blame Taco Bell for screwing up their life by replacing them with a robot. Chances are they screwed up their own life long before.
Mr. Fusion,
> I guess you failed your Grade 9 economics class.
> In order to sell something, you need people to buy.
Actually, I have a degree in Economics thank you very much. Economies do not work on consumers alone. You must have producers will to sell products at a price consumers are willing to buy.
> If no one has a job, because all the greedy companies
> decided to outsource the work, then who is going to buy
> their products. The American economy is based upon good
> paying jobs to sustain itself. Otherwise we end up with
> massive unemployment and underemployment, just like what we
> have today. AND a massive, historically high trade deficit.
So, that’s the problem: the greedy companies! How dare mom-and-pop shop not hire more workers!
Coming back to reality…The American economy is based on providing quality products at competitive prices just like every other capitalist economy in the world. The American standard of living has increased dramatically because American labor is one of the most productive in the world. If Americans want better jobs, they need to learn that they are competing for those jobs and, if they want to compete on something other than price, must bring something else to the table such as better language skills, better education, more experience in the market place, knowledge of productivity increasing tools etc.
> Gee, the new dubya economics. Give the wealthy
> tax breaks and stick it to the working class.
So, what you are really saying is that you do not really understand economics. You do realize that the upper 50% of the wage earners pay over 95% of the tax revenue? Do you also realize that tax revenues have increased since “dubya’s tax break”? When you raise the tax rate on the rich, they simply move their money out of main stream investments (new business, stocks, IPOs etc.) and into tax free investments.
> No Thomas, outsourcing is greedy. Because it shifts the
> social load to fewer people. The remainder of the tax base
> has to support your lack of social contributions. It is
> just Corporate Welfare by another name.
Only someone that has never run a business or knows nothing about economics would make such statement. Outsourcing is direct result of US labor being more expensive and not sufficiently beneficial compared to foreign labor. In short, US labor wants more than it is worth and/or doesn’t provide sufficient benefit to exceed their cost as compared to foreign labor in some businesses. It appears that you simply do not like the concept that American workers must compete with foreign workers just as American businesses must compete with foreign businesses.
Part of additional cost of US labor is the fault of federal, state and local legislation. Increased regulations, higher legal liabilities and yes, taxes all contribute to a higher cost of doing business in the US than many other places in the world. Why do you think businesses are leaving California and moving to places like Texas, Nevada and Arizona? Beyond costs of land, businesses are taxed higher in California and labor is more costly in California. To call businesses “greedy” because they want to reduce costs shows a perverse ignorance about economics.
So, that’s the problem: the greedy companies! How dare mom-and-pop shop not hire more workers!
The Mom and Pop operations are not outsourcing their work to Honduras or China. I remember a few years ago loading Netscape 5.0 (I think it was). Part of the license forbid using the program in China. Guess what, a sizable part of our electronics now come from China. Dell, Laveno (whatever IBM is called), HP, Motorola, and Intel to name a few. These are the same companies Congress decided to allow to bring billions of dollars in profit from foreign operation home TAX FREE. The dollars gained from selling to Americans foreign made products.
You do realize that the upper 50% of the wage earners pay over 95% of the tax revenue?
Would that be because half of the US workforce still have jobs. The other half are underemployed or unemployed. If you are a economist then you know that that is a phony number. Since the economy has started coming back, the jobs opening up pay $9000 less then the jobs lost. That plus your 50% pay 95% of tax revenue is typical “F” network crap. Did O’Rielly tell you that?
In short, US labor wants more than it is worth and/or doesn’t provide sufficient benefit to exceed their cost as compared to foreign labor in some businesses.
Bull crap. Labor costs are totally relative to production. Most foreign labor is subsidized, and often by the US too. When American compete on equal terms then they do as well or better then almost any labor force in the world. What makes American labor cost expensive for too many businesses right now are the health benefits. Every other country in the western world has government run plans except for the US. The fewer contributers to the health-care pot means that the rest have to pay more.
To call businesses “greedy” because they want to reduce costs shows a perverse ignorance about economics.
I work to reduce costs all day. That is a major part of my job. To find ways of doing things easier, make less scrap, and do it more consistently. Outsourcing though, is greedy because it gives the profit to those who don’t shoulder their social responsibilities. Those who outsource are leaving the work to those who are left. Partially because of outsourcing, the US has the highest budget deficit and trade deficit in its history. I don’t know all the numbers, but how the US can maintain a trade deficit like what we have without going bankrupt is beyond me.
Your arguments are something direct from the “F” word network. You are totally lacking in any economic principals that I am aware of. You sound like a typical neo-con fanatic, thinking solely of yourself and NOT the country. It is the people like you that are ruining this country. And if you have a degree in Economics, then it could only have come from some right-wing nut kindergarten like Bob Jones U. or a paper mill.
I want to be able to go to a taco bell, put in a usb key or rfid tag or whatever have the station grab my order, pay, get my food and be on my way.
Mr. Fussion:
You don’t need a job. you need a source of revenue to have buying power.
A certain amount of unemployement is actually important for a good economy.
BTW
MC=MR 😉
Mr. Fizzle,
> The Mom and Pop operations are not outsourcing their work
> to Honduras or China.
They are when they are buying foreign made goods instead of equivalently made domestic ones. They are if they are drop shipping goods from overseas to customers in the US.
> Guess what, a sizable part of
> our electronics now come from China. Dell, Laveno (whatever
> IBM is called), HP, Motorola, and Intel to name a few.
This is the same nonsense argument made about Japan twenty years ago. If a company can make a product overseas cheaper than it can in US it will. This is fundamental economics that clearly you do not wish to accept.
> These are the same companies Congress decided to allow to
> bring billions of dollars in profit from foreign operation
> home TAX FREE. The dollars gained from selling to Americans
> foreign made products.
First, I suspect it is already the case that there are means by which companies can make products overseas and sell them in the US and avoid tax liabilities. Companies will seek to minimize tax liabilities much like individuals. Second, this has nothing to do with companies that are not some how bypassing tax legislation and are instead outright moving jobs to other counties because of the high cost of US labor.
>>You do realize that the upper 50% of the wage
>> earners pay over 95% of the tax revenue?
> Would that be because half of the US workforce still have
> jobs. The other half are underemployed or unemployed.
It also appears you never took statistics. The unemployed are not contributing to the tax revenue; only the employed contribute to the tax base.
The upper 50% of wage earners obviously represents people that have jobs and earned money. Here is top level link you are interested in: Individual Income Tax Rates and Tax Shares. The specific table is: Individual Income Tax Returns with Positive Adjusted Gross Income (AGI): Number of Returns.
my.
>> In short, US labor wants more than it is worth and/or
>> doesn’t provide sufficient benefit to exceed their cost as
>> compared to foreign labor in some businesses.
>
> Bull crap. Labor costs are totally relative to production.
> Most foreign labor is subsidized, and often by the US too.
> When American compete on equal terms then they do as well
> or better then almost any labor force in the world. What
> makes American labor cost expensive for too many businesses
> right now are the health benefits. Every other country in
> the western world has government run plans except for the
> US. The fewer contributers to the health-care pot means
> that the rest have to pay more.
There are many reasons why American labor is more expensive. You mentioned a few reasons: health benefits and foreign government subsidizing. You are forgetting other items such as US legal liabilities, worker’s compensation costs and general worker cost of living. Why would an employer setup a business in New York instead of Texas? The only reason would be if setting up that business gave them a competitive advantage. If they are merely manufacturing a product, it would lunacy to setup shop in New York as the costs of labor, land and legal liabilities in Texas are substantially lower. The same concept applies globally.
Keep in mind, to the employer, the cost of labor is more than just wages. Rather, it is wage and overhead costs such as worker’s comp, legal liabilities, etc. The later is part of the issue of country competition of which I spoke earlier.
RE: the remainder of your vacuous rants…
It is clear that you have no grasp of the fundamentals of economic theory and especially supply and demand. It is also clear you have never run your own business that employed workers where you had to pay for that labor. Obviously, you represent the far left politically and are showing exactly why I have no respect for the far left as they have no concept of economics. Somehow, they think that supply and demand do not apply to them. I’m not saying the far right is a spring chicken. They seem to be off in religious la-la land and, for the time being, do not seem care about budgetary restraint (although they have show small signs of hope at least). Apparently, being an atheist and an economist is anathema.
I recommend you take a fundamental course on microeconomics before you embarrass yourself again as completely as you have in your latest post. Specifically, you should learn about the effect of price controls and tariffs.
Technology dosn’t replace workers jobs are created!!!!!!!!!!
By adding technology a company becomes more efficiant and able to expand.
40 years ago people brought thier bank books to the bank and the amount you had in your account was entered by pencil.
The only form of technology a bank had was a calculator and a telephone.
Today banks transfer zillions of dollars around the world using technology.
Any Jobs lost????
You build the better mouse trap and they will come, the more that come the more jobs are created.
The United States economy is largely service based.
This thread is off on a tangent (argument) about economics 101
Hey Now!
The bottom line is you vote with your dollar!
The Buck starts and ends in your Pocket.
If you like Vending machines then you purchase items from it. If you don’t them walk up to the cashier and place your vote.
When I walk into lowe’s, Homy Depot, Pathmark, and Walmart I look for the shorties line . If the automated line is shorter then I am on that line. If i have allot of items and don’t feel like packing my bags then I select the cashier. Once again I voted with my greenbacks
The consumers concern is making their life as efficient and easyas possible. The consumer wants to get the best value for the Dollar. The Purchasing process is all part of the shopping experience.
Mr. Fusion,
It occurs to me that with your diminutive knowledge of economics that you may not understand my retort about mom-and-pop shops outsourcing. Basically, outsourcing is the process of importing services. The motivations for importing services are exactly the same as those for importing goods: quality and cost. Until recently, it has only really been possible to import tangible goods from abroad. However, as productivity in foreign countries has improved and as barriers to importing services have dropped, it is now possible to import some services on a larger scale. The motivations for importing services are the same as those of importing goods. If the foreign product or service is of sufficient quality and is less expensive than its domestic counterpart, then it makes sense to choose the foreign product or service. If a domestic product manufacturer or service provider (i.e. worker) wishes to compete successfully, they must either provide a benefit not provided by the foreign version (e.g. superior language skills, better technical skills, better efficiency) or lower their cost.
Thomas
Outsourcing
noun
: the practice of subcontracting manufacturing work to outside and especially foreign or nonunion companies
http://www.webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?sourceid=Mozilla-search&va=outsourcing
In today’s more common usage, it means the taking of jobs from the US, moving them to third world countries, and importing the products. The chain is vertical with the same employer owning the source and distribution of the product.
Again I go back to the fact that these low priced goods end up being subsidized by the American taxpayer. The foreign workers are too often exploited.
I fully understood your retort about Mom & Pop shops outsourcing. It was your way of evading the issue that large GREEDY companies are sending American jobs overseas. That creates a massive underemployment / unemployment problem in the US, and massive trade imbalances. The underemployed / unemployed then create a drain on the public which these GREEDY companies are not contributing to.
Part of additional cost of US labor is the fault of federal, state and local legislation. Increased regulations, higher legal liabilities and yes, taxes all contribute to a higher cost of doing business in the US
So the fact that Corporations must pay taxes is wrong? NO !!! The avoidance of paying taxes is wrong. I don’t like seeing so much of my pay check going to taxes, but that is the prices of living in the US. Myself and many others believe that. If all these “cost of doing business” are the reason companies outsource their manufacturing then you just confirmed my contention that these companies are greedy. They don’t want to contribute to American society but they will take the benefits.
My degree is in History, though I did take several Economics classes. I claim no special gift or knowledge. I have never seen a statement, put forth by an Economist, such as yours though. This might be your opinion, but buddy, anyone who supports outsourcing of jobs under some pretense that a corporation is somehow devoid of any social responsibilities is a wing nut, “F” word network convert.
You remind me of the main character in the rock opera Tommy. You are deaf and blind but unfortunately, not dumb enough. You take quotes from my comments and answer with something totally different. ie. See the Mom & Pop retort and outsourcing shifts the social costs to fewer people response in your post 38.
Mr Fusion,
Can you at least grasp the concept that outsourcing is nothing more than importing foreign services as opposed to foreign products? Do you at least recognize that the motivations for purchasing foreign goods are the same as that of purchasing foreign services? All of your arguments against outsourcing should also apply to goods. Thus, if you believe that corporations are purchasing foreign services for greedy reasons, then you must also believe that consumers that buy foreign products are doing so for greedy reasons. You must believe that any time a corporation or individual tries to cut costs or chooses the less expensive product or service that they are being “greedy.” This is of course a ridiculous conclusion requiring a perversion of the word “greedy”.
People and corporations will purchase goods and services that provide the maximum benefit at the best price. Companies the provide goods and services must either provide a benefit (perceived or not) that their competitors do not or must compete on price.
Every time Mom-and-Pop shop buys a foreign made product, they are outsourcing the manufacturing of that product. When they hire a foreign worker, they are outsourcing those services. It is likely that more overseas services will crop up in areas such as accounting/bookkeeping. People will outsource services for the same reasons they purchase foreign products and it is this connection which you seem unable to make.
It appears that you simply do not like the consequence of market economics or simply did not realize that the same rules that apply to products apply to services and specifically labor.
> Again I go back to the fact that these low priced goods end
> up being subsidized by the American taxpayer. The foreign
> workers are too often exploited.
Poppycock. Are you trying to tell me that German auto workers are exploited compared to American autoworkers? Are you saying that foreigners are subsiding American workers when we sell lower price products abroad? I think part of your fallacious thinking stems from the mistaken idea that somehow economics is a zero sum game.
> So the fact that Corporations must pay taxes is wrong?
No. However, it should be clear that corporations are going to place their operations in countries where they can maximize benefit and minimize cost. If one country has a substantially higher tax rate than another, other things being equal (A big “if” I’ll grant you), the corporation will move their operations to the country with the lower tax rate. In the movie business for example, executives with go through incredible hoops to move revenue through countries with the lowest tax rates. A fraction of a percentage here or there can mean hundreds of thousands of dollars or more.
You need to get out of your head the notion that business = greed. Businesses cut costs or choose less expensive products to maximize profits. Individuals cut costs and/or choose less expensive products to maximize take home pay (personal profit). This is not greed. This is good management and sound economics.