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Column from PC Magazine: Will Apple Adopt Windows? — If you haven’t noticed, last week my column on Apple possibly adopting Windows arrived on the scene. It was written as an exercise in possibilities. Will it happen? Maybe, Maybe not. But you can make a case for it being in the works and that’s what I did. Unfortunately the nutty Mac fringe got all bent out of shape as if this column had anything to do with whatever happens one way or the other. If I was on the board of Apple and was suggesting this that should be done then it would be different. But this is a column in a PC-centric magazine about PC’s and Windows. But apparently these whack jobs (and it is a very small but vocal minority within the whole Macintosh audience) felt it necessary to besmirch me and rant about what an idiot I am. Some of the email (and posts) was definitely from psychopaths who need to be profiled by the FBI. At least the cartoon is funny! That was a plus.
I’m perpetually baffled by the fact that all these dissenters keep reading these columns like moths to a flame and claim they’ll never read me again. Then they write long-winded diatribes about why I am wrong. It usually deteriorates into personal attacks. I’m sure the prof cited in the article is getting some weird grief from certain students. Being a professor of psychology perhaps he can explain this nutball fringe.
The irony to all this is that I’m a proponent of PC’s switching to OS-X.
The idea that Apple would ditch its own OS for Microsoft Windows came to me from Yakov Epstein, a professor of psychology at Rutgers University, who wrote to me convinced that the process had already begun. I was amused, but after mulling over various coincidences, I’m convinced he may be right.
The first line should be,
“Meanwhile, inside PC Magazine Labs…”
Great joyoftech cartoon!
I especially like the last line they give you: “I know you’re watching me…” 🙂
Oh please please please post some of the funnier ones!
Hilarious cartoon. Sorry, when I first saw it, before I read the text, I thought it was Cheney.
I read few comments over your column at digg.com and I was wondering: why the mac users got so mad?They really hate you!
You expressed a theory. You didn’t even say that that was a prediction. Nonetheless people insulted you like crazy. I bet half of them didn’t even read your column.
I’m a mac user, but I remember I was annoyed by the hard core fanatics:
Why did they get so over the top with those posts?
Why did they feel that was ok to not respect you and to not respect your opinions?
That was crazy, not your thoughts over the future of Apple.
If this can relief you a little: I think you are an awesome tech-journalist and I’m glad you are here to express your eccentric opinions.
I think most people hated hearing this simply because John hasn’t been wrong in his predictions for a good while.
If you listen to the TWIT podcast, he constantly tosses his predictions in. . . . and they are consistantly accurate.
This could be a crazy turn if it happens; and I’ll be certain to score the spawn if indeed these two firms to meet / greet / and reproduce.
Spot on! I’ve been saying for years that Apple needs to develop hardware for PC users in a way that won’t alienate its cult following. The iPod delivered on that, with spectacular results.
Now if they can just make a deal with MS to work on the a future OS, the world would be a much better place for everyone!
If a beef truly exists between Gates and Jobs it’s a pity; imagine the results if they both work together as a team!
Your columns own! And I always like to laugh at these Mac zealots preaching their religion.
Eh. You have a couple of interesting points, but the liklihood of Jobs investment into next and internal rage and battle with bill gates makes the chances of this happening with steve at the wheel less than slim to none. I mean… it’s along the lines of McDonalds uses the same meat producer as Burger King… They must be about to switch from the big mac to the whopper or something.
After 22 years of Wintel [and predecessors], I switched to Mac and OS X over a year ago. I have 1 noisy, cranky XP machine left in our study. I do the regular security updates; but, in that time, I’ve needed it only once to work with a CT-scan image where I couldn’t find a free conversion filter. That’s it.
We now have 3 OS X computers [1 dual-booting Yellow Dog Linux] in the house and sneaking up on a 4th — depending on what’s introduced when. If I had an easy install-and-run of OS X on that remaining Wintel beast, I’d probably keep it. Well, I might keep it.
I switched to OpenOffice a couple of years ago. All that moved over to NeoOffice on the Mac. The few bits and pieces of new software I’ve purchased since switching were almost exclusively based on free trials — which led me to discovering better written, less expensive software. OS X absolutely rules. People who babble about running Windows on a Mac — must be masochists.
I think most people asume Apple will dump OSX for WIndows if Dvorak’s right… but hey, they can have models offering choices of OSs (like you find PCs with Windows and Linux)
That would be a great move: apple hardware+windows for the masses and if you are cool you get apple hardware+osX
and Dvorak would still be right
Thank heavens you favor OSX over Windoze. We can now remove the straitjacket. Only a truly insane person would belive that Windoze is better than OSX in any way, shape, or form.
As a pre-flame foam treatment: Yes, I’ve used both extensively. In 19 years of using MacOS, I have NEVER had to reformat/reload an OS. In 10 years of using Windoze, I have had to reformat/reload the OS at least a dozen times. That, plus the sheer number of clicks that it takes to do the most mundane and simple tasks is so much lower with Mac than with Windoze. I’ll not continue because there isn’t enough disk space on Dvorak’s web host.
Am not entirely sure what all the upset is about… if you read the column, it’s pretty clear that John, with respect, is completely wrong…
The numbers he (or the originator of the theory) use to support their theories are wrong (as far as market share increases)… Apple is selling more Macintosh computers now than they were a year ago and although hard to measure, there is substantial anecdotal evidence to suggest that the iPod to iMac conversion strategy is indeed working.
The notion of the ‘iPod switching to USB’ has nothing to do with Windows and everything to do with Apple wanting to sell to PC users (more of them have USB than FireWire – and since Macintosh computers have USB too, why ship with both when USB is equally supported).
The whole ‘5 more years’ thing has to do with Apple wrangling Microsoft, not Microsoft ditching Apple. Apple knows it needs Office right now, so it regularly gets MS to commit to long term development. They did this when they accepted the $150M in the 90’s… they’ve obviously done it again.
Adobe IS working on Intel versions of their apps. Lightroom is already available as a Universal application, and Adobe has formally announced that the next versions of their apps are going to be Universal.
I can go on and on.. pretty much every piece of ‘evidence’ sighted is wrong, either in conclusion, or in the basic facts.
Sorry John – i respect your frankness and you often have pretty good insticts, but we all know you wrote this to rattle the sabre and drive hits – both to here and to PCMagazine.com.
Move on people – nothing insightful to see here….
I think it’s a simple matter of the fear of change. It’s hard enough for some that the Intel switch is being made (why I don’t know), but to suggest a world without the familiar OS. I remember when I had to migrate our corporate user base from Outlook to Lotus Notes. The howling echos in the halls years afterward. I might as well have been John Cleese, asking if ” I could have your liver”.
Point is though, when you are in the minority, you *have* to have a louder voice. The whack jobs are simply part of the Lunatic Fringe (does that play on OSX?) Besides, there are plenty of Windows whack jobs out there, too.
Wait a second….
That wasn’t your 1/4 column?
In any event, put me in the OSX column as soon as I can get my hands on a MacBook. I’ll still have to keep a Windows laptop around for my wife’s EQ2 obsession, and two Windows computers at work for testing, but otherwise I’m dumping my XP based HTPC and my own XP laptop for Apple equipment.
The funny part (at least to me) is that I’m a huge fan of the X-Box 360, but am disapointed in its Media Center Extender functionality.
Steve.. “convinced he may be right.. as in “maybe” not “convinced he is right. The operative word is “may” meaning “might possibly” nothing more. So? Anything is possible, no?
Sorry people. I just don´t get the fuss. This looks a bit like faith, and heart, instead of brains and common sense.
Didn’t Jobs change the underlying OS of the Mac in OSX??? Used to be Apple´s system 9, and now it´s Unix based. Do you, Mac users felt deprived and mislead in that move?
No!
You screamed “Hurrah, we got the best OS in the world…” and such.
So what if Jobs pulls another one in one year or so?
Have you seen Vista (new Win OS.) previews? Isn´t it just like the Mac? Well, Eye candy you say… But the nuts and bolts under the hood are changing too. I bet Redmond is going in the direction of what OSX is now. Is the UI so entrenched in the system or is it a layer floating above it? What if you can buy “Vista by Apple” – The same engine but with a OSX look and feel. And a Blue/Yellow/Carbon/whatever box to deal with backward compatibility.
And you can be buying your box at Apple, configured with OSX flavoured Vista, and all the iSoftware included, and supported by Apple. Would it be such a different world of what you live in now?
No. You are users, and users generally don´t write to API´s and call procedures and stuff like that. You generally fire up freehand or photoshop and do your job. What do you care if the SMP scheduling and Virtual memory managing are running on Microsoft code? As long as it works.
That being said, I have to express that I don´t see Apple doing the windows thing. They (Apple) have just tons of code and features and sub systems and APIs and caching mechanisms, in a word, just too much code to pratically do it. Its just too much work, nearly as hard as building an OS from scratch.
But I have an idea. What about Mac emulators on Windows? And Windows emulators on Macs? Traditionally they were too slow to be pratical, but now things have changed. Now running both on the same architecture they can be optimized. And if they are better integrated, I mean, seamlessly, that could be the best of both worlds. And the good news is: It doesnt have to be neither Apple nor Microsoft to put this concept to work. It can be a third party. A smaller but capable company would pull this off with some sucess.
In fact, it has to be third party. Apple won´t be doing this because it would sell less Hardware.
And Microsoft doesn´t make PCs, so they won´t do it either.
So, my guess is that Dvorak is close to being right, but ultimately he is wrong. And he is wrong just for the secular reasons that had prevented Apple from disappearig and made Microsoft thrive:
Apple wants to sell hardware! that´s the reason that made Jobs kill the clones…and build iMacs and iPods.
Apple wants to sell machines, period.
If OSX runs over windows it can be on any box. So why would people buy Apple boxes?
And Microsoft wants to sell software: Windows, and Office suites, and Messenger and Media player OSs and games. Period.
If Apple runs on any box, on top of windows that would be the same to Microsoft.
So the main industry forces are not into it: Apple doesn´t want it and Microsoft doesn´t care.
So in the end it will come to this. Apple will be Apple and Microsoft will be Oranges.
Anyway, John, I have to thank you for bringing this into debate. At least people are thinking and talking about it. And also I have to condemn the Zealots and Fanatics that can´t share and discuss ideas with an open mind.
Say it !
Disclaimer: I’ve never owned & seldom operated a Mac.
I would be surprised if Apple really abandoned its own OS for Windows. Take away OS X and what do you have other than an overpriced (however “refined”) PC? On the other hand, I would absolutely love reading comments from irate Mac-philes whining about losing OS X and vowing never to bow to the M$ monster.
For my part, I couldn’t care less about Apple’s hardware. Though, I would gladly pay for OS X if it were released for PCs. I’m curious enough about OS X to buy the software, not a whole new (much too expensive) machine.
Finally someone shuts up those godawful mac zealots i dont care about how great os X Good for you your smarter than me meanwhile ill be back to playing all my PC centric games….
My prediction.
Apple will spin off it Mac machines. It might keep the more profitable notebooks. It will keep the iPods going in their same format.
They will release the Mac OS XI, compatible with Intel and competing with Windows. OS XI will be a Unix / Linux core. Mac applications will be backwards and forewords compatible with this new OS. This will be announced just before Vista goes on sale to put a damper on M$’s parade and drain off a lot of potential customers. So many people want a Mac computer just for the software, but don’t like the high price compared to Wintel machines.
There can not be much of a profit margin with only 3% of the market.
If this happens I think it will be a little more subtle than Apple simply installing Vista and dumping OS/X. What I think is more likely is that Apple would swap the Darwin kernel for the modularized Windows Vista kernel and perhaps some higher level stuff to provide some application compatability. This would give Apple hardware compatability and still allow them to innovate at the desktop and higher levels. In return, Apple would agree to license it’s DRM to Microsoft for inclusion in the new unified kernel which would become a focus of cooperation between Apple and Microsoft.
I still think this is all unlikely but this might make some sense for both Microsoft and Apple.
Will
“Isn’t the OS about 95% of what Apple brings to the table to make it attractive?”
No, it’s also tightly regulated hardware also.
You’re crazy. I’m not going to even bother explaining why since I’m sure you’ve probably already heard all the reasons.
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OK, I’ll bite, “Bigger companies than Apple have dropped their proprietary OSs in favor of Windows—think IBM and OS/2”
Um, not really. Bigger companies yeah, that’s true, but not bigger OS. While Apple may only have %2 of the market or whatever, that’s still millions and millions and millions of computers. I’m probably the only person I know that has actually even seen OS/2 in person before…furthermore OS/2 was really just an exercise in belligerency in the first place, where as OSX actually does really kick ass.
No one will pay $2600 for a top end Apple computer if it runs the same OS at the same speed as a $400 Dell. If you actually think that as many people will buy $3000 Windows machines as they did $3000 OSX G5s then you are totally out of touch with the computer market. Additionally, if you think Apple wants to jump into the bottom-of-the-barrel Windows PC market place well…I can only say that I hope they aren’t that stupid. Its a cut throat market of cut rate products.
Right now people are paying 4x as much or more for slow Macs than they would have to pay for a fast WinTell box and loving it. I did. And Apple is making more money off one lap top than Dell is making from five. I can’t imagine why Apple would want to leave that position and risk…everything they are, pretty much. It would be like Ferrari ending the sales of mid-engines supercars, and deciding to sell a $10,000 pick-up to compete with the Chevy S-10 just because the market is bigger. Lunacy. Then there is the extra $130 they make every year and a half from a system update…this idea is nuts.
I wouldn’t buy an Apple computer if it ran Windows. I just don’t see the point in it.
My only comment is not to focus on John’s predictions, but to comment on the responses. Shame on you! I say to the people who were so upset that they could not help but put in phrases such as ‘duh!’ when referencing John’s opinions. A concise rebuttal WITHOUT name calling or belittling is far more useful. Imagine a logical retort that could stand on its own without resorting to a nonproductive attack. Enough said.
I read your column and enjoyed it… it’s unfortunate that some of the mac addicts took it to seriously. Don’t let these losers upset you! They have nothing better to do with themselves.
When Windows is running on intel Macs, you can make a cartoon about the people that are making fun of you now, so the joke will be on them.
Meanwhile, just stay out of your local Apple store for the near future 🙂
Keeee-riiiist. Not to fan the flames but really, who cares? If I had my druthers then AmigaDOS would be ubiquitous rather than this cranky, crappy, lowest-common-denominator windows. But tough luck, the world has decided so I am stuck with windows. Awwwwwww.
What is the relevance of MacOS in this day and age? Even Linux has web servers to make it relevant. What has MacOS got except for a lack of viruses and a rabid fan base? Neither of these are markers for future success.
Apple’s only real hope in the computer game is to release their cute OS for wintel machines. There is no substitute for market share. Whining about the wonderful benefits of transparent windows and single button mice just isn’t going to make a jot of difference anymore. Not one jot.
Smart Apple would spread that OS like wildfire, maybe even for FREE and make a compelling case for windows users to migrate. Like some software apps or, god forbid, GAMES would help.
And Apple should push that ipod/itunes combo like crazy before the punters wake up….
It looks like Mr Dvorak has done it again ! — which is to stimulate our minds.
And yes, once again he succeeded.
^_^ Good for him.
I have been using the Macintosh platform since 1988, began using Windows since 1994, put together a Windows machine in 1998 and been cross-platform ever since.
The Macintosh platform is just another choice, not a religion or a cult. Users use it because that’s their preference, just as others prefer Windows, Linux, Unix, or DOS.
If a computer platform can be considered a religion or a cult, then the Windows platform should also be considered as such as well.
“And your point is?” you might ask.
My point is: People, can’t we just first listen to what others have to say before we throw in our prejudice and emotions?
Communication works both ways.
Don’t expect me to listen to you if you don’t even bother to listen to me.
Just as I wouldn’t expect you to listen to me if I didn’t listen to you.
I have a wild theory that both Bill Gates and Steve Jobs have grown up to a point where they actually COULD work together to create the ultimate computing systems and devices.
Bill cares enough to give away billions and Steve survived cancer with a new outlook on life. Maybe Steve called up Bill and said “Listen Bill, isn’t it silly for us to keep this up? Let’s get together and combine our super powers to build one super system.”
It makes sense.
Great theory John. This MAC-fanatics are nuts. It seems to me that their MAC affiliation is more like a religion.
I think that OS-X is far superior that Windows, but the FACT is that Windows dominates the market. If MAC wants to MAKE money, this Idea makes sense. Most people haven’t realized that in the corporate world, is all about the money.
MacHeads are cultists. A large part of the cult is driven by an insane and irrational hatred of Bill gates. If Microsoft bought Apple and didn’t change a thing – even leaving Jobs in charge with complete freedom to do as he wished half of them would still never buy another Mac simply because they cannot stand the thought of Gates making money off them.
The flaming is far beyond simply which OS is better. Also, as someone else noted in the article discussion, the flamers used to open their battle cry with “Intel Sucks”. Now Macs run on Intel and suddenly Intel doesn’t suck any more… How can that be?