Guardian Unlimited | World Latest | 3 Charged With Planning Attacks in Iraq — This story seems pretty fishy. These guys are in Toledo for gosh sakes. What kind of reporting besides listening to the government was done by M.R. Kropko? This writer is a business reporter, not someone who would normally do these sorts of stories. Seems odd.
More disconcerting is the fact that “travelling together to a shooting range” is now something that shows up in an indictment. The NRA should perk up their ears over that one.
According to the indictment unsealed Monday, the three suspects recruited others to train for a violent holy war against the United States and its allies in Iraq. The indictment says they traveled together to a shooting range to practice shooting guns and studied how to make explosives.
There is nothing “disconcerting” about this, and the NRA should not “perk up their ears”. They are not being indicted or arrested for solely for going to a shooting range together.
They are being arrested for allegedly threatening to kill/harm President Bush, a definite federal offense. Everybody, black, white, Muslim, Jew, Christian can not threaten the President of the US with harm, the secret service will arrest them. They have a KNOWN record of arresting everybody who does this, investigating every crackpot, etc. This is *not* an anti-Muslim thing,
They are geing arrested for allegedly recruiting others to train for a violent holy war against the United States and its allies in Iraq, which is conspiracy to commit treason.
I’m not a lawyer, but my guess is that if there was a true charge against them going to a shooting range, its in the context of showing means to the advance the above two items.
For example, if I buy explosives, it may be perfectly legal. If I buy explosives with the intent to harm, it is illegal. Intent matters. Intent matters a lot, as the difference between murder, manslaughter, negligent homicide, etc show, even though the result against the victim is the same: being dead.
The other morning G. Gordon Liddy said (on Howard 100) you can openly plan any crime, that’s your right. But once you physically do anything to do the crime, that’s conspiracy. So going together to practice shooting was the first phisical step towards their goal, and illegal.
Quoting G. Gordon Libby as a lega resources is probably not the best idea.
and who knows more about conspiracys then the G-Man, maybe ollie?
Lou
Whenever a prosecutor releases an indictment it is always embellished. Often the remotest item will find its way into the indictment just to make it look that much worse. This was released by the Attorney General, the same guy under the gun for the NSA illegal spying. This will end up being just to bolster their claim that such a spy program is needed.
Hey Lou, remember when your wife told you to “hurry home” and you ended up getting a speeding ticket? Well, the ticket is a misdemeanor at worse, but your act of speeding and your wife’s request now make that a conspiracy, a felony. Prosecutors will often take this route and then settle for a guilty plea on the misdemeanor.
I’ll wait until the trial is over to make any judgment.
Mr. Fusion….
I agree with you generally, but the bottom line is, “you don’t threaten the president”. End of story.
After Hinkley, Squeeky Fromme, etc. you gotta know that if you threaten the president and get caught, you are in deep doo doo, so to speak.
This is not a wife asking a husband to get home quickly.
Lou, I’m not sure what threats you are referring to:
“The indictment alleges that one of the men, Mohammad Zaki Amawi, twice threatened to kill or inflict bodily harm against President Bush while speaking with others.”
Potential Bush Threats:
While drinking beer with others ….. “that guy ought to be shot for saying that.”
While playing cards with friends from work ….”his mama ought to spank his ass for doing that.”
While driving to the bowling alley ….”can’t we send Cheney to the Texas ranch to clear out the quail while Bush clears brush.”
You don’t want to fight terrorists overseas in Iraq. You don’t want them arrested when they’re planning an attack. You don’t want surveillance to prevent an attack. You don’t want people detained in Guantanamo. Not sure if you want people arrested after an attack either.
AB CD
You misinterpret again. The terrorists in Iraq are there because WE are there. We have created them. Freedom is one thing, but not when driving down the street means you very well be shot at by American soldiers because you look suspicious. How many people are imprisoned by American soldiers for mere suspicion, for months. How many Iraqis prisoners have been tortured by Americans or Iraqi trained police.
I don’t want us chasing shadows, imprisoning people without trial or due cause. This is not the America we had on September 10, 2001. And it is because of our chasing shadows that we are not the same. The terrorists won. And darn it all to heck, you don’t care.
You are part of the problem.
Writing in the UK’s Guardian newspaper on Wednesday, Terry Davis said the global fight against terror must be underpinned by respect for human rights.
“It is our challenge, but also our firm belief that the fight against terrorism can only be credible if it respects human rights and fundamental freedoms. This is not an easy challenge,” he wrote.