Cartoon War Continues Unabaited — I have to give these people the benefit of the doubt and assume they have other grievances. I mean, really. None of these jokers read Danish newspapers. Few have seen these innocuous cartoons. They have other issues and this is their excuse for rioting. But is this the best excuse they can come up with? Offensive cartooning? It’s nothing less than ridiculous.
Two demonstrators were killed and five were injured, while eight police also were hurt, he said. No U.S. troops were involved in the clashes, Ahmed said.
Lebanon, meanwhile, apologized to Denmark a day after thousands of rampaging Muslim demonstrators set fire to the building housing the Danish mission in Beirut to protest the series of cartoons satirizing Islam’s holiest figure.
The European Union issued stern reminders to 18 Muslim countries that they are obliged under the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations to protect foreign embassies, and Austria — which now holds the EU Council presidency, reported calling in a top representative of the Organization of the Islamic Conference to express concerns for the safety of diplomatic missions.
These folks hate everyone who isn’t them (probably themselves too). People who hate like this will use any excuse to demonstrate their hatred against anything and everything.
This is just another example of the cultural incompatibility between muslims and non-muslims. It’s also very telling when you see Muslim immigrants in Europe insisting that their new home countries much change their laws to appease them, rather than they accepting the local customs and traditions. I saw a cleric in Denmark (I think it was Denmark) over the weekend saying that they shouldn’t be expected to change, the host country should.
I gotta wonder.. Why isn’t it a big deal when the arab papers publish cartoons comparing jews to nazi’s or other demeaning things? Everyone should take a look at this site: honest reporting. I’ll admit it’s pretty one sided, but the only way to get accurate info these days is to look at both sides. Why don’t these cartoons ever make the news?
“Muslim immigrants in Europe insisting that their new home countries much change their laws to appease them, rather than they accepting the local customs and traditions. I saw a cleric in Denmark (I think it was Denmark) over the weekend saying that they shouldn’t be expected to change, the host country should.”
Isn’t this what is happening in this country with the hispanic population. Biligual everything, seperate classes for spanish. And any talk of English as the official language is met by cries of racism and polical correctness by the far left.
Also I feel that the muslim religion as a whole is incompatable with other non muslim religions and this will turn out to be a bigger threat to world peace then communism ever was. Much more blood will be spilled in the coming decades, be warned.
Not being a religious man, I don’t understand religious fervor in the first place, but don’t Muslims ever get tired of appearing ridiculous? Or primitive? Are they that medieval? Or are they just loopy?
I find it amazing that when Muslims speak of Christians, Jews or any non-muslim religion, they speak of us as “Infidels,” or “non-believers,” meaning that we follow a false religion. But, if we speak negatively of their religion they throw fits?
I read on one site where the “Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC) secretary general Ekmeleddin Ihsanoglu told reporters in Cairo Sunday that the international body would ‘ask the U.N. general assembly to pass a resolution banning attacks on religious beliefs.'”
http://www.masnet.org/news.asp?id=3148
Yet, at the same time, they can bomb Jewish, Christian and Hindu sites in the name of religious freedom. Which is worse?
We can deal with this easy.
1) Reduce eradicate our dependence on Oil. This is a key step
2) Make it clear that if Iran etc want a bomb, fine. We then reserve the right to defend ourselves with same said bomb, only in spades.
3) Rigorously prosecute anyone who riots or otherwise breaks our laws while they reside here. You murder your daughter because back in asshole land you had that cultural “right”; we then tote your ass to jail and let you ride the lighting according to our laws and rights. You kill your neighbor because his sect of Islam lets them fart on Tuesdays in odd numbered weeks and you sect only allows farting on Sundays, we take you to the injection chamber and let you fart all you want when they push the plunger home.
4) Let the hardheads have their little crappy piece of land and then DON’T export high tech to them. The only reason they have what they have now is that we sell it to them or teach them how to do it.
5) Sit back while Sunni’s kill Shiites etc. It seems to be the main entertainment. If they start screwing with us, we screw back – harder. They let us alone – we let them alone.
I am so fricken tired of a people and religion that acts like a bunch of 2 year olds when you don’t give them their way. Its time to spank the baby – not to be like all those milquetoast parents you see in the stores that try to negotiate with their two year old when he/she throws a tantrum over not be able to touch and destroy everything in the store.
I agree! I could give them an example of a real complaint. How about Muslims enslaving Africans with there follow Mohammad/Allah or die policy. And if they ever stop (especially the abductions of E. African children for their harem guards & baby sitters) they’ll be the last! Islam needs to grow-up!
The extremists have been looking for any excuse possible to create chaos. The cartoon controversy worked so well for them is that :
1. this issue hit the nerves of every Muslim around the world
3. the republishing of the cartoons by various parties
You must understand how high Muslims regard their prophet. To Muslims he is the embodiment of what every Muslim should be like spiritually. To insult him like that really enraged Muslims.
Though the issue could’ve died away long ago (it’s not the first time an insulting depiction of the prophet has been made, however, it is the most publicised), other publications republished the cartoon in the name of free speech. The story spread around the world. Muslims see this as a confrontational move by the “West”.
So the plan was to protest these publications and ask for an apology. However, the extremists saw this oppurtunity and hijacked the protest movements. They mixed this issue with every other issue that they can get their hands on, and incite riots.
The other issues like how the West comes barging into Muslims coutries like it’s their grandmother’s country and running it the way they want , killing it’s people, and taking the its resources for their own needs, does hit the nerves of Muslims, but these issues were never seen as clear cut confrontation because there really were terrorist in these countries that needed to be rid of. However the extremists have managed to enflame all the pent-up discontent of Muslims towards the “West” and the the result is what you see now.
Um…what happened to 2?
so, you live in a country with a tyrannical, corrupt government, rampant poverty and unemployment, but the thing that really chaps you is … cartoons in a foreign newspaper?
wow, just wow.
If muslims are going to kill people over a cartoon then it screams the fact that muslims have a violent religion.
And you can’t compare muslim bombings to Abortion Clinic bombings. First off all the bombings at Abortion clinics were by insane people. 99.9 percent of protestors of Abortion Clinics don’t want to bomb people.
But muslims on the other hand do have violence and this incident just prooves that.
estacado,
1) I have no doubt that you are correct. However acting like a two year old and insisting that the world convert to your beliefs isn’t going to do any good either. I will not change my beliefs. If you want to come here and practice your beliefs – cool. JUST DON’T SCREW WITH MINE. I will be more than ready to “fight to the knife – knife to the hilt”.
2) Their own leaders allowed the west to screw them over. Take it out on them. I’m not Bush – its ok by me if they throw out their assholes. I sometimes think that the only way the US will break it from oil is in a crisis mode.
“The other issues like how the West comes barging into Muslims coutries like it’s their grandmother’s country and running it the way they want , killing it’s people, and taking the its resources for their own needs, does hit the nerves of Muslims”
Example please. First Gulf war, interceded on Kuwaits behalf and restored their country to them. Afghanstan, remove extremist government that supported terroism. Iraq, finished the job we should have done in the first place. Then there is Saudia Arabia, which is a thorn in the side of UBL. Sure we want their oil, but look what they have gotten in return, tech, fighter planes, state of the air bases, all with having to put up with their bullshit.
“so, you live in a country with a tyrannical, corrupt government, rampant poverty and unemployment, but the thing that really chaps you is … cartoons in a foreign newspaper?
wow, just wow. ”
Doug my friend,
Did you ever watch any of the “Black Adder” series on BBC?
I forget which episode it was but the Adder gets mad and kicks the dog. His servant asks why he took his anger caused by the prince out on poor Mildred the dog. The reply was (something like) the following:
“Because that’s the way of things. I kick the dog” [you hear a sound effect of a kicked dog barking] “The dog attacks the cat” [you hear a screeching cat] “The cat attacks the mouse” [you hear a squeak] “The mouse bites you” [his servant jumps and yelps]
“Who do I get to hit?” the servant asks.
“No one” is the reply “Unless you can find some defenseless ear whig”
I guess they found an ear whig.
Here’s an interesting theory on this whole thing. No idea if it’s true or not, but I’ll just throw it out there anyway. Nutshell: CYA by Saudi Arabia.
gq – perhaps you’re too young to know better; but, even if you learn history from movies you might revisit Lawrence of Arabia and stroll forward from there. The whole point of the Brits being in the Middle East was oil. When they figured out smarter ways to deal with the oil sheiks they put in place — which included places they and the French created from whole cloth like Lebanon and Kuwait — they dropped the stupid part for the US to pick up.
Thrall: Good. Now take your logic on abortion bombers and apply it to Muslims. They’re not all fanatics even though these people in particular certainly are.
If Amercians rioted at every offensive cartooon that they saw, this country would be nothing but violence.
I completely agee with you John.
These cartoons were published in September. Why is there such protest now?
Thought you’d never ask. A bunch of clerics recently went around the middle east to “educate” people about the massive threat Muslims were under in Denmark. As part of their efforts they handed out pamphlets with the 12 cartoons originally published… PLUS THREE NEW CARTOONS. These new cartoons, never published in any newspaper, are the ones causing all the offense. In other words certain Muslim leaders couldn’t get enough reaction with the truth and so invented these propaganda cartoons. As usual Muslims biggest enemy is other Muslims.
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewForeignBureaus.asp?Page=%5CForeignBureaus%5Carchive%5C200602/FOR20060202b.html
Although I dont agree with the current outburst of violence by extremists over the cartoon shmozzle, people need to realise that Muslims learn to hate the West not because they are jealous of our lifestyles and freedoms and the size of our TV sets (as Dubya and others would have us believe), but because the see the West as invaders of thier lands and holy sites (read Saudi Arabia) in Crusader-esq style. The current outburst of violence is a extension of the disrespect that Muslims see directed toward them by the West.
Sounds the Alarm –
I must shamefully confess to never having seen Black Adder (one of the many things that should be in the NetFlix que but isnt), but I take your point. While I don’t think anything excuses this kind of idiotic behavior, we probably should not overlook the possibility that some of the regional governments are probably stoking it to distract their people from real problems.
In the end, who am I to judge, given that rampage I went on when they cancelled ‘Calvin and Hobbes’….
doug
I think Internet newsgroups will put an end to this sort of mayhem and violence, as we all learn to resolve issues peacefully and respectfully by disussing them on electronic message boards.
/signed/
1993
I just want to point out to Steve in Michigan that its not as simple as Arabs in the US are rich and Arabs in Europe are poor. My Girlfriend is of Egyptian Origin but is neither Arab or Muslim. She’s Coptic and speaks Arabic.
In the UK most Muslims are not Arab but Pakistani.
My view on these protestors around the world. I agree with you on the prosperity point. If they were prosperous they’d be at work like the rest of us and wouldnt have time to go running round the streets and burning down embassies.
Kevin, now that was truly funny. I had folks telling me that in 1983, as well. Of course, bbs families were small enough we literally could get someone to look for a participant (and help them out if necessary) when they disappeared from the board.
A Badger,
My limited experience in Saudi, and the Middle East, left me with the impression that people there generally live in terror of those in power. Furthermore, I will extrapolate my experience to say that if the people there are told the West is a greater threat to them than the local power brokers, then their reaction can be understood. The people can not react to their government, but can react to the threat of the West in government sanctioned displays.
I think it is unfortunate that the Saudis do not generally allow non-Muslims to see the country. Anyone who can see would have his eyes opened by the experience.
>>Few have seen these innocuous cartoons
When you use the term “innocuous” it shows that you really don’t get what is going on here. This isn’t a big criticism, though, since it has taken me years of living among Muslims to get to the point where I only partially understand them.
This story is fascinating because it’s a true “clash of civilizations.” (Usually when people use that term they’re making stuff up.) This is the real-deal.
Both sides are living up to ugly stereotypes: The west are being arrogant, aggressive blasphemers; and the Muslim are hyper-sensitive, violent mobs.
After this cools down, I’ll guess that not 1 in a 1000 people will have learned anything from this fiasco. Instead, we will just hate each other more.
Don >>>… don’t Muslims ever get tired of appearing ridiculous? Or primitive? Are they that medieval?
Do westerners every get tired of appearing as self-centered, arrogant, spoiled, insensitive, aggressive defilers of other people’s sacred beliefs?
Because I live with feet in both worlds, it is easy for me to see both sides of this.
Please don’t flame me! This is not my personal view.
Despite all the shouting, the west isn’t listening. They will probably never “get” why these cartoons touched off riots (rare) and fostered lingering hurtful resentment (common).
Greg >>Here’s an interesting theory on this whole thing. No idea if it’s true or not, but I’ll just throw it out there anyway. Nutshell: CYA by Saudi Arabia.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/2/5/13149/60748
I’ve been wondering about this aspect of the story. It has the smell of being orchestrated by somebody. It’s not tracking like a grassroots issue.
A simpler theory than KOS’s (and I tend to prefer my conspiracy theories simple. ) is that the story about these cartoons were making the rounds in sermons at mosques.
This is common in my evangelical Christians circles… the same sermon illustration will quickly show up in the sermons of pastors all over the place.
(These stories can be pure urban myth or partially true. Rarely are they totally true. One of my favorites is the myth that Al Gore said his favorite bible verse was John 16:3 — instead of the wildy popular John 3: 16. http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_al_gore_john_3_16.htm)
Here’s my hypotheses: I wonder if the story of these cartoons quickly made the rounds during Haj and then caught fire when they were reprinted in that Norwegian paper.
People think the cartoon is no big deal because it doesn’t offend them.
Wonder how people in the mid-west US would like it if there was a cartoon featuring an upside down cross and self-pleasuring Jesus? I could be wrong, but my guess is we wouldn’t be hearing them praising freespeech.